PDA

View Full Version : Is there a hands down best aerobic excercise?



kindrinn
07-14-2006, 07:19 AM
Just wondering, Obviously the quickest and most effective way to loose unwanted body fat is aerobic excercise, Heres the question though? is there a hands down best way to loose it? Jogging/running, jump rope? stair climbers? Info please

Anthony
07-14-2006, 07:28 AM
Aerobic exercise is piss poor for losing body fat.

HIIT is the way to go.

kindrinn
07-14-2006, 07:31 AM
HIIT? kind of new to all of this Please elaborate.

Anthony
07-14-2006, 07:33 AM
High Intensity Interval Training.

Do a search for "HIIT" on this forum or google and you will find TONS of info.

RedSpikeyThing
07-14-2006, 04:57 PM
Try skipping rope - I just started a thread on it, so I'm going to keep pushing it.

Bob
07-14-2006, 07:41 PM
And the beauty with HIIT is that you can do it with almost any time of exercise you like...
Squatting..
Jump Roping..
Running..
Ellipitical
Biking..
Hiking..
Basketball..
whatever...

gumbo11103
07-15-2006, 03:49 PM
Just wondering, Obviously the quickest and most effective way to loose unwanted body fat is aerobic excercise, Heres the question though? is there a hands down best way to loose it? Jogging/running, jump rope? stair climbers? Info please

As a distance runner I can tell you running is the best way to lose body fat. I speak from personal experience.

No need to run fast either. Shoot for a schedule like this-

M- 1 hour @ 70-75 % of your max heart rate
Tues- 1.5 hours @ 60-70% MHR
Wed- 1 hour @ 70-75% MHR
Thurs- 1.5 hours @ 60-70% MHR
Fri- 1 hour @ 70-75% MHR
Sat- 2 hours @ 60-70% MHR
Sun- 1 hour @ 60-70% MHR

Work your way up to that slowly and at first you may need to walk to keep your HR low enough. Once you get their(can take about 3 months) maintain that schedule for 3 months. You will be begging for body fat. You will see your pace becoming much faster at the same easy efforts thus you will cover more ground and burn more calories as time goes on.

Built
07-15-2006, 03:56 PM
As a distance runner I can tell you running is the best way to lose body fat. I speak from personal experience.

As a former fat distance runner, I can tell you that there is no worse way to drop bodyfat. I speak from experience. 10k, 3x a week for almost 10 years. I had to stop at 170 lbs at about 40% bodyfat because my knees, feet, and hips couldn't take the strain any longer.



No need to run fast either.
The only running I ever do now is sprinting, flat out.




Shoot for a schedule like this-

M- 1 hour @ 70-75 % of your max heart rate
Tues- 1.5 hours @ 60-70% MHR
Wed- 1 hour @ 70-75% MHR
Thurs- 1.5 hours @ 60-70% MHR
Fri- 1 hour @ 70-75% MHR
Sat- 2 hours @ 60-70% MHR
Sun- 1 hour @ 60-70% MHR

Work your way up to that slowly and at first you may need to walk to keep your HR low enough. Once you get their(can take about 3 months) maintain that schedule for 3 months. You will be begging for body fat. You will see your pace becoming much faster at the same easy efforts thus you will cover more ground and burn more calories as time goes on.

I'm interested in how the same type of training can affect people so differently.

I've seen plenty of lean runners. But I know plenty of fat marathon runners who can NOT get rid of the spare tire.

Seems to be a lot of self-selection at play here.

gumbo11103
07-15-2006, 08:26 PM
Built, you are dead wrong! Probley the reason you had so much pain when running is 1. Because you ran with improper form(you don't lift that way right?) and 2. Probley you ran to fast for what your body was conditioned for. Running 10k 3 times a week fast is a great way to injure yourself, quick.

Their are plenty of ways to run a marathon. One is implying a very low weekly mileage(mostly intense) and just building up a long run to cover the distance. Someone who does this and continues to eat like crap will hold that spare tire.

Now, what I sugessted to the OP is a simple way to condition yourself aerobicly(a base). Give that a 3 month buildup(or longer if need be), and hold that base for 3 months. Eat a good diet and don't overate. It will be necassary to continue to lift for the running will eat at your muscle as well. Your body will condition itself gradually. The weight will come and the muscles and tendons will strengthen(again gradually). You will also achieve added endurance that can help your weight training(I think).

My body fat went from 15% down to 8% using that simple schedule I layed out when I started running.

Now about this HIIT stuff. Sure might be good for imeadiate results but thats about as far as it goes. I think high intensity anything should not be done without a strong base first. Trying to rip through intrivils without the aeroibic conditioning is a recipt for injury. I know we americans live in a "I want it now" society but I have to disagree that HIIT is the best way to lose and keep of weight. I will say it again, you have to condition your body gradually. I think of HITT like trying to build a house without a foundation. You first need a foundation! Don't these principles apply to weight training or does one just pick heavy weights and go at it?(Ok, newbie question)

Now, I don't know jack about lifting weights(newbie) but I hang with lots of runners and believe me not many have over 10% body fat and HIIT did not get them their.

gains2385
07-15-2006, 08:31 PM
http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/HIITvsET.html
-Trembblay A, Simoneau JA, Bouchard C. (1994). Impact of Exercise Intensity on Body Fatness and Skeletal Muscle Metablism, Metabolism. 43(7): 814-818.

gumbo11103
07-15-2006, 09:00 PM
http://www.exrx.net/FatLoss/HIITvsET.html
-Trembblay A, Simoneau JA, Bouchard C. (1994). Impact of Exercise Intensity on Body Fatness and Skeletal Muscle Metablism, Metabolism. 43(7): 814-818.

Was this study done with running? The edurance group only did 30-45 min not even 7 days a week. Not much endurance their at all + the they build up to 85% of MHR. That is too high of a heart rate. I guess one can argue that the HIIT group's intervil's weren't all that tuff either.

The principle behind endurance training to lose body fat is based on the fact that when your body works at aerobic intensity's your primary fuel source is fat. The higher the intensity you work at the more anaerobic pathways you use and carbohydrates becomes your main fuel source. So when intervil training you are using more carbohydrates and even protein for fuel. I think intervils are great once the weight is off and you muscles are conditioned for high intensity.

I could be wrong but once weight is down it's probley not a good idea to keep up endurance type training if your goal is to get big. My big question as a newbie is how to gain muscle mass without gaining any fat? i see lots of huge guys at the gym and many have huge belly's along with it.

gains2385
07-15-2006, 09:06 PM
Try doing a clean bulk.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=811783

That link provides information on how to do a clean bulk and a cut. Built is one of the best, if not best, people on here for information on diet and how to do it. She has lots of experience and first hand knowledge and has been VERY helpful in getting my diet in check.

gumbo11103
07-15-2006, 10:08 PM
Try doing a clean bulk.

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=811783

That link provides information on how to do a clean bulk and a cut. Built is one of the best, if not best, people on here for information on diet and how to do it. She has lots of experience and first hand knowledge and has been VERY helpful in getting my diet in check.

Ok I don't mean to hijack this thread but now I'm interested. So than, I guess I first bulk(clean as you say) and than I cut. Is the only difference in what i eat or should my workout routine change as well. I take it I go heavy on the aerobic exercise during the cut phase and eat less right?

Doing these calculations I find it hard to believe my "maintnance calorie intake". Man, I can't imagine eating that little, than your supossed to eat even less during the cut. Maybe if i laid down doing nothing all day I may burn that little. On a lazy day for me I will eat about 2500 calories while these calculators put me at 1400 cals per day for maintnance.

Man I'm so confused on this whole thing.

Built
07-15-2006, 10:10 PM
Built, you are dead wrong! Probley the reason you had so much pain when running is 1. Because you ran with improper form(you don't lift that way right?) and 2. Probley you ran to fast for what your body was conditioned for. Running 10k 3 times a week fast is a great way to injure yourself, quick.

I didn't have any trouble with my form: I joined a running group that had trained coaches to teach us proper form. And I never ran fast - my fastest 10k was 70 minutes.

My problems happened as I progressively gained weight - the heavier I got, the more pounding my joints took. I started jogging at 150 lbs. I initially lost about 8 lbs over the first year, then gradually gained until I hit 170. THAT was when I had to call it quits.



Their are plenty of ways to run a marathon. One is implying a very low weekly mileage(mostly intense) and just building up a long run to cover the distance. Someone who does this and continues to eat like crap will hold that spare tire.

I had a girlfriend who was a trained dietician as a running partner.

She set up my diet for me.



Now, what I sugessted to the OP is a simple way to condition yourself aerobicly(a base). Give that a 3 month buildup(or longer if need be), and hold that base for 3 months. Eat a good diet and don't overate. It will be necassary to continue to lift for the running will eat at your muscle as well. Your body will condition itself gradually. The weight will come and the muscles and tendons will strengthen(again gradually). You will also achieve added endurance that can help your weight training(I think).

A little cardio is good for your heart. But endurance training teaches the body to become efficient.

Resistance training teaches the body to become INefficient. In this sense, they fight each other.




My body fat went from 15% down to 8% using that simple schedule I layed out when I started running.

Now about this HIIT stuff. Sure might be good for imeadiate results but thats about as far as it goes.
One of the many benefits of HIIT is that, unlike low intensity steady state cardio, it won't "teach" fast-twitch muscles to act as slow-twitch analogues. That's one of the many reasons it's a superior form of cardio for bodybuilders.




I think high intensity anything should not be done without a strong base first.

Agreed.



Trying to rip through intrivils without the aeroibic conditioning is a recipt for injury. I know we americans live in a "I want it now" society but I have to disagree that HIIT is the best way to lose and keep of weight.

Also agreed. DIET is the best way to lose weight. Diet and heavy lifting is the best way to lose fat and keep it off.

Cardio in all form totally blows as a principal source of caloric deficit because the body continually becomes more efficient as you continue to do it.

Which means you have to do more and more of it to get the same bang for your buck.

This happens with lifting, too, except instead of becoming more and more efficient, the body becomes more and more INefficient.

So you have to eat more food than you did before, to maintain the more muscular body you have now.

This is why, in middle-age, I'm able to eat more food on a cut than many of my cohort need to maintain, or even gain.




I will say it again, you have to condition your body gradually. I think of HITT like trying to build a house without a foundation. You first need a foundation! Don't these principles apply to weight training or does one just pick heavy weights and go at it?(Ok, newbie question)

SS cardio does nothing to condition the body for HIIT, or at least, very little. I do almost no SS cardio, but I can pick up HIIT anytime I like because of the heavy lifting I do.




Now, I don't know jack about lifting weights(newbie) but I hang with lots of runners and believe me not many have over 10% body fat and HIIT did not get them their.

Self selection bias, hon.

Welcome to MY world.

:)

Built
07-15-2006, 10:12 PM
Ok I don't mean to hijack this thread but now I'm interested. So than, I guess I first bulk(clean as you say) and than I cut. Is the only difference in what i eat or should my workout routine change as well. I take it I go heavy on the aerobic exercise during the cut phase and eat less right?

Very little cardio on a cut. Otherwise, you'll chew through all the LBM you packed on during your bulk.




Doing these calculations I find it hard to believe my "maintnance calorie intake". Man, I can't imagine eating that little, than your supossed to eat even less during the cut. Maybe if i laid down doing nothing all day I may burn that little. On a lazy day for me I will eat about 2500 calories while these calculators put me at 1400 cals per day for maintnance.

Man I'm so confused on this whole thing.

Don't use a calculator for your maintenance - you find that by tracking what you actually eat on www.fitday.com

If you don't gain, and you don't lose, those are YOUR maintenance calories.

gumbo11103
07-15-2006, 10:19 PM
Built cool. I guess i will have to find my maintnance calories. But what about the second part of my question. During a cut should a workout routine change, other than lowering my cardio? Like type of exercises, number of reps, weight, that kind of thing.

Thanks or your replies.

MixmasterNash
07-15-2006, 10:21 PM
As a distance runner I can tell you running is the best way to lose body fat. I speak from personal experience.

No need to run fast either. Shoot for a schedule like this-

M- 1 hour @ 70-75 % of your max heart rate
Tues- 1.5 hours @ 60-70% MHR
Wed- 1 hour @ 70-75% MHR
Thurs- 1.5 hours @ 60-70% MHR
Fri- 1 hour @ 70-75% MHR
Sat- 2 hours @ 60-70% MHR
Sun- 1 hour @ 60-70% MHR

Work your way up to that slowly and at first you may need to walk to keep your HR low enough. Once you get their(can take about 3 months) maintain that schedule for 3 months. You will be begging for body fat. You will see your pace becoming much faster at the same easy efforts thus you will cover more ground and burn more calories as time goes on.

Thanks. I was looking for a post I can reference as "Stupidest **** I Have Ever Seen."

Built
07-15-2006, 10:21 PM
Low-rep strength-range training works very well on a cut.

Read these articles - Joel Marion explains it better than I ever could.

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=214rip2
http://www.ruggedmag.com/index.php?type=Article&i=3&a=8

gumbo11103
07-15-2006, 10:54 PM
Thanks built, that sums it up for me. I guess lifting weights and running are two completely different sports. I have much work to do if I plan to start gaining soon.

DNL
07-16-2006, 01:38 AM
this thread has been hi-jacked.. but the information is important nonetheless.

Anthony
07-17-2006, 05:58 AM
Thanks. I was looking for a post I can reference as "Stupidest **** I Have Ever Seen."

:withstupi

Guido
07-17-2006, 08:44 AM
Thanks. I was looking for a post I can reference as "Stupidest **** I Have Ever Seen."That's a little harsh. The poster was just misinformed and speaking on "personal experience". Obviously his misconceptions have been cleared up now and he is beginning to see the light.

Bob
07-17-2006, 09:10 AM
That's a little harsh. The poster was just misinformed and speaking on "personal experience". Obviously his misconceptions have been cleared up now and he is beginning to see the light.
You are right Guido... but I think these other 2 lines might qualify though..

Built, you are dead wrong!

Now about this HIIT stuff. Sure might be good for imeadiate results but thats about as far as it goes.
LOL

Built wrong??? I think NOT!!

HIIT is only for immediate results.. and not for the elite. I guess Gumbo doesn't really know about the Kenyans... who put all kinds of sprints and mountains into their endurance training. Or the old Nordic way of Farklet..

MixmasterNash
07-17-2006, 09:39 AM
That's a little harsh. The poster was just misinformed and speaking on "personal experience". Obviously his misconceptions have been cleared up now and he is beginning to see the light.
It was a little harsh. I thought about taking it back. But then I realized that it was a perfect example of the primary problem with the Internet: speaking without any effort at learning.

For someone to come along without doing any research or reading on this site and making declarations that are actually harmful exercise prescriptions, to say nothing of being factually wrong, is arrogant in the extreme, impolite, and immature. I'm glad he has seen the gap in his knowledge. Hopefully he will also fill the gap in his approach to learning as well.

Not only that, but his suggesttion is a crappy training protocol for a distance runner, which he claims to be!

Guido
07-18-2006, 10:40 AM
It was a little harsh. I thought about taking it back. But then I realized that it was a perfect example of the primary problem with the Internet: speaking without any effort at learning.

For someone to come along without doing any research or reading on this site and making declarations that are actually harmful exercise prescriptions, to say nothing of being factually wrong, is arrogant in the extreme, impolite, and immature. I'm glad he has seen the gap in his knowledge. Hopefully he will also fill the gap in his approach to learning as well.

Not only that, but his suggesttion is a crappy training protocol for a distance runner, which he claims to be!True, but I cut a little slack to those who actually exhibit some humility when shown that they could (or are) wrong.

Oh, and Bearwolf, the old Nordic way is actually called "fartlek", not "farklet". ;)

TooShortBabe
07-19-2006, 06:38 AM
High Intensity Interval Training.

Do a search for "HIIT" on this forum or google and you will find TONS of info.
I don't agree, aerobic does help a lot. You burn more fat if you do some aerobic before training than without.Because you've already warmed up and used up your first source of energy.Skipping rope is a good idea too but just as long as you can keep the rythm. Once you start missing it can get on your nerves!

Anthony
07-19-2006, 06:48 AM
HIIT is better than slow steady state cardio for burning fat (along with being better at everything else too). This is scientifically proven.

Bob
07-19-2006, 08:09 AM
I don't agree, aerobic does help a lot. You burn more fat if you do some aerobic before training than without.Because you've already warmed up and used up your first source of energy.Skipping rope is a good idea too but just as long as you can keep the rythm. Once you start missing it can get on your nerves!
TooShortBabe... you are new here.. so welcome.. and we WBB'ers will probably take it a little easy on you...

But please, your stated opinion is not correct.. it is one of those misconceptions sound by many infomercials and uninformed personal trainers. Search WBB.. you will find a lot of information (scientifically supported) that supports the fact that you need to have underlining muscle (not bulky if you don't want..) and a good diet to shed the fat. And when you do Cardio, it is much better to do HIIT as Anthony states.. it will take less time, push your cardio-vascular system to the next level, burn more fat and raise your metabolism...

Also, search for posts & pictures by Built... she came from the max cardio realm... and was fat (according to her)... but since taking up lifting heavy weights and proper diet, she is quite the physical specimen... lovely and shapely..

Good luck..

Built
07-19-2006, 08:47 AM
I don't agree, aerobic does help a lot. You burn more fat if you do some aerobic before training than without.Because you've already warmed up and used up your first source of energy.Skipping rope is a good idea too but just as long as you can keep the rythm. Once you start missing it can get on your nerves!

Actually, you've got it backward: you'll burn more calories (and more fat calories, if this kind of thing matters to you) if you do the cardio at the end of your workout. Do it before, and you'll not only burn fewer calories, fewer of them will be fat calories.

Cardio before weights is a recipe for muscle loss, not fat loss.

gains2385
07-19-2006, 09:26 AM
Actually, you've got it backward: you'll burn more calories (and more fat calories, if this kind of thing matters to you) if you do the cardio at the end of your workout. Do it before, and you'll not only burn fewer calories, fewer of them will be fat calories.

Cardio before weights is a recipe for muscle loss, not fat loss.
So, if I mountain bike for about 5.5 miles before I work out, will I burn more muscle than if I went after I worked out? I rest for about 40 minutes (the drive their) before working out.

Built
07-19-2006, 01:21 PM
Tough to say - you rest in between. Probably won't matter all that much - a five mile bike ride ain't HUGE.

PerfectAnjail
07-19-2006, 01:31 PM
And yet another reason HIIT is superior to SS cardio... (for the OP, and TSB, and gumbo), it has to do with what Built eluded to earlier. Endurance cardio teaches your body to be efficient, which is great if you're a marathon runner, not so great for burning calories. HIIT, on the other hand, uses short bursts of energy at your MAX EFFORT. This means, whatever your max effort is. Obviously, Marion Jones and I are going to have different results from our max efforts if we're sprinting, but this does not mean I'm getting any less of a "workout" than she would. If done correctly, this changes with every workout, and every set for that matter. By the end, I usually feel something like :insert puking smiley: but I prefer it many times over to boring SS cardio.