Workout

[DCF]

Hey, I need a little help.

I want to workout every single day of the week, and I have the option to, so would it be good or bad?

I find when I have days combined, such as Chest/Tris and Back/Bis on different days, I can't focus on "one muscle." I do back, then biceps. I find I can't do as much as I normally would when I work my biceps, so I'm thinking a seperate day for them to get full control.

Here's how I'd work it out:

Monday-Chest
Tuesday-Biceps
Wednesday-Shoulders
Thursday-Triceps
Friday-Back
Saturday-Abs
Sunday-Legs

My friend uses this workout and has been over around 1 year and 4 months. And he's HUGE.

It gives me the same rest time per week for each muscle, plus I have each day to focus on every muscle instead of worrying about not having enough time to get a certain excersize in for my second muscle.

[getfit]

why seperate arm day oh dear! i don't like people working way to much their upper and not enough their lower.What do you do for legs?

[DCF]

why seperate arm day oh dear! i don't like people working way to much their upper and not enough their lower.What do you do for legs?

Squats, leg press, calf raises, front leg extensions, back leg extensions, and sometimes leg curls.

Those aren't the order I do them in.

[getfit]

set/rep range?

[DCF]

set/rep range?

Squats - 5x10-15
Leg Press - 3x10
Seated Calf Raises - 3x25
Leg Extensions - 3x10
Back Leg Extensions - 3x10

With squats I'm currently trying to get size, not strength. So I'm at a high rep range now. I'll dring it down to maybe 6-8 within a couple months.

I might also stop the leg press since the muscle is already being covered in my workout.

[Anthony]

It makes sense that you can't curl as much after training back. Why? BECAUSE YOUR ARMS JUST GOT WORKED. So if they are getting the work, who cares about the weight you curl? Think about the big picture and not your ego.

I think it's a crap routine and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

[DCF]

It makes sense that you can't curl as much after training back. Why? BECAUSE YOUR ARMS JUST GOT WORKED. So if they are getting the work, who cares about the weight you curl? Think about the big picture and not your ego.

I think it's a crap routine and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

Why is it crap?

My back is being worked, maybe my arms a little bit, but not everything. I'm tired all around, not sore from "working my biceps."

[TwiloMike]

I don't like your workout plan either. It seems extremely inefficient. When you work out back you hit your bis as well, and in no small way. When you hit chest, same goes for tris. Giving them separate days is overkill, imo. Abs certainly don't need their own day. You actually plan on going to the gym to do some 8 sets of abs and leave? Throw them in with another body part. Your workout can easily be combined into 3-4 days. Post a pic of this huge friend of yours. I'm curious how far that workout got him.

[scission]

I agree with TwiloMike - You need to hit tri's the same day as chest and hit bi's the same day as back. You're already working those arms anyway! Might as well be efficient about it and work them all the way on the same day.

[Anthony]

Why is it crap?

My back is being worked, maybe my arms a little bit, but not everything. I'm tired all around, not sore from "working my biceps."

Here is why it's crap: take a look at bodybuilding routines before drugs became popular. Now take a look at bodybuilding routines after drugs became popular. Big difference eh?

Also, if you're tired after doing one exercise, maybe you should incorporate some gpp to improve your work capacity. But I'm guessing you'll do more than one back exercise and not complain about that ......

[DCF]

I don't like your workout plan either. It seems extremely inefficient. When you work out back you hit your bis as well, and in no small way. When you hit chest, same goes for tris. Giving them separate days is overkill, imo. Abs certainly don't need their own day. You actually plan on going to the gym to do some 8 sets of abs and leave? Throw them in with another body part. Your workout can easily be combined into 3-4 days. Post a pic of this huge friend of yours. I'm curious how far that workout got him.

He's to the left in the black wifey.

[TwiloMike]

Your friend isn't huge. Compare your friend's build with Anthony's (his avatar is his own body). Anthony is also knowledgeable through research, not just trial and error or hearsay. Trust Anthony.

[TwiloMike]

I agree with TwiloMike - You need to hit tri's the same day as chest and hit bi's the same day as back. You're already working those arms anyway! Might as well be efficient about it and work them all the way on the same day.
Another way you can do it, and I'm finding it to be extremely effective is with a BGB split http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=255 which throws arm work to the two split leg days.

[DCF]

Your friend isn't huge. Compare your friend's build with Anthony's (his avatar is his own body). Anthony is also knowledgeable through research, not just trial and error or hearsay. Trust Anthony.

It seems like my friend's lifts are similar to Anthony's. I read a little bit of hos journal(Friday, May 27th) and his deadlift max was 405x5. My friend is currently over 500 I think, or maybe around 475. I'll have to ask him again.

My friend has only been at this 1.4 years, and I think he IS huge for how long he's been at it.

[TwiloMike]

It seems like my friend's lifts are similar to Anthony's. I read a little bit of hos journal(Friday, May 27th) and his deadlift max was 405x5. My friend is currently over 500 I think, or maybe around 475. I'll have to ask him again.

My friend has only been at this 1.4 years, and I think he IS huge for how long he's been at it.
Anthony's latest is 550x1 DL max. In either case, it's good that your friend is seeing progress, being that he's a relative n00b that isn't surprising even with an inefficient routine. Give it some time, see what he looks like when he loses the fat that covers him now. You asked for our opinions on your routine and it is extremely inefficient by most people's standards and it was explained why.

[DCF]

Anthony's latest is 550x1 DL max. In either case, it's good that your friend is seeing progress, being that he's a relative n00b that isn't surprising even with an inefficient routine. Give it some time, see what he looks like when he loses the fat that covers him now. You asked for our opinions on your routine and it is extremely inefficient by most people's standards and it was explained why.

Thanks for the info. He isn't covered in fat, he's still trying to gain. I'm just copying what he's saying to me now. Thanks though, I'll probably stick with my routine instead of his since his "isn't good enough."

[Anthony]

I don't wanna compare my size or strength to your friend's as a way to justify my opinion on his/your workout. There will always be someone bigger/stronger (or smaller/stronger!!) and the minute we start to flex our internet muscles is the minute we lose focus of what's important.

The routine sucks. He got big and strong DESPITE the routine, not because of it. If he has a legit 500+ deadlift (no straps, from the floor) in 1.4 years of training like a bodybuilder, he should seriously look into powerlifting!

[CODmasterJYK]

First off. Your friend's not huge.

Plus, are you sure he can deadlift 500+? Cuz he sure doesn't look like he can. Or are you just feeding us bull****. (maybe your friend is feeding you bull****). I mean, your friend does not look like he can deadlift 500+.

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, but I just had to point that out: he does not really look like he can do that.

Perhaps he's using the wrong kind of form in deadlifting.

But bottom line: that routine is inefficient. Through research and trial-and-error, the professional bodybuilders of this forum and of the wannabebig.com website have established the fact that compound routines are superior to routines that isolate 1 or 2 muscles per day. Moreover, you should have 3-4 rest days. From what I heard, if you do that your kidney will eventually be to depleted to heal your muscles by the 3rd day of exercise.

The only reason why your friend might have had progress with this routine is because he is a newbie (noobs are able to make a lot more gains in a given time interval than other weightlifters).

So bottom line, I suggest BGB or WBB1. They are good routines.

[DCF]

First off. Your friend's not huge.

Plus, are you sure he can deadlift 500+? Cuz he sure doesn't look like he can. Or are you just feeding us bull****. (maybe your friend is feeding you bull****). I mean, your friend does not look like he can deadlift 500+.

I'm not trying to start a fight or anything, but I just had to point that out: he does not really look like he can do that.

Perhaps he's using the wrong kind of form in deadlifting.

But bottom line: that routine is inefficient. Through research and trial-and-error, the professional bodybuilders of this forum and of the wannabebig.com website have established the fact that compound routines are superior to routines that isolate 1 or 2 muscles per day. Moreover, you should have 3-4 rest days. From what I heard, if you do that your kidney will eventually be to depleted to heal your muscles by the 3rd day of exercise.

The only reason why your friend might have had progress with this routine is because he is a newbie (noobs are able to make a lot more gains in a given time interval than other weightlifters).

So bottom line, I suggest BGB or WBB1. They are good routines.

First off, I've seen him do it before with correct form. He has a VERY strong back. It's probably his best muscle. I'm not feeding you bull****, I don't give a **** if you believe me or not. Don't, go for it. See if I really care.

And personally, I can't STAND WWB1. I don't feel like driving 20 minutes to the gym on day 5 to do 3 sets of bicep excersizes, then drive another 20 minutes home wasting gas. I'd feel like I did absoultly nothing whatsoever at the gym. I wouldn't be surprised if the workout lasted 20 minutes. And you're supposed to GAIN from that? WTF!?

I'm done, I'm sticking with MY routine. I don't care what Arnold S. or even Mr.Knowitall Anthony says, from being at the gym just over 2 months and using my friends/and my routine, I've been more than satisfied.

[scission]

Lol. :whiner:

[KFeld]

Don't ask the question if you're not going to listen to the answer. All the people here are trying to do is help. If you dont wan't it, then best of luck to you and your current routine.

On a side note, I can almost assure you that Day 5 on WBB1 will last longer than your Day 6 - Abs workout.

[TwiloMike]

And personally, I can't STAND WWB1. I don't feel like driving 20 minutes to the gym on day 5 to do 3 sets of bicep excersizes, then drive another 20 minutes home wasting gas. I'd feel like I did absoultly nothing whatsoever at the gym. I wouldn't be surprised if the workout lasted 20 minutes. And you're supposed to GAIN from that? WTF!?
But... didn't your friend get HUGE by having a bicep da, an ab day, and a tricep day? That's what you were contemplating doing when you started this thread. What is it that you can't stand about WBB1? It packs all you need to do into 3 days. BGB does it in 4 days. Both are very efficient.


I'm done, I'm sticking with MY routine. I don't care what Arnold S. or even Mr.Knowitall Anthony says, from being at the gym just over 2 months and using my friends/and my routine, I've been more than satisfied.
Out of curiosity what is YOUR routine? I imagine it's different from the 7 days/week your friend is using.

[Anthony]

You ask for advice, we respond graciously. It's not what you want to hear, so you insult us.

Maybe some day you'll take your head out of your ass ...

[Gilles1975]

I tried the BGB routine and I have to admit that I feel the same way as the original poster, I get too tired to do justice to all the excercises. So I have come up with my own routine, and I'll explain it a little:
Day 1
HAMSTRINGS/GLUTES:
Deadlifts 4x8
Leg curls 3x8
CALVES GASTROCS:
standing calf raises 3x16 & 2x12

Day 2
PECS:
Flat bench 3x12
Flat bench 4x10
Incline cable flys 3x10
FRONT DELTS:
Shoulder Press 2x8
TRICEPS:
Skullcrushers 3x10
LATERAL DELTS:
Standing side laterals 4x8

Day 3
Back:
Bent over rows 3x10
DB Lying rows 3x10
BICEPS:
Hammer curls 3x10
Barbell Curls 4x8
CALVES SOLEUS:
Seated calf raises 3x20 & 3x16

Day 4
QUADS:
DB Side Lunge 3x8
Squats 3x10
Leg press 3x10 & 4x8

Day 5
HAMSTRINGS/GLUTES:
Deadlifts 4x10
Leg curls 3x10
CALVES GASTROCS:
standing calf raises 2x16 & 2x12 & 1x10

Day 6
PECS:
Flat bench 3x10
Flat bench 4x8
Incline cable flys 3x8
FRONT DELTS:
Shoulder Press 2x10
TRICEPS:
Skullcrushers 2x10
Skullcrushers 3x8
LATERAL DELTS:
Standing side laterals 2x10

Day 7
Back:
Bent over rows 3x10
DB Lying rows 3x10
BICEPS:
Hammer curls 3x10
Barbell Curls 4x10
CALVES SOLEUS:
Seated calf raises 3x16 & 3x12

Day 8
QUADS:
DB Side Lunge 3x8
Squats 3x10
Leg press 3x12 & 4x10

9 Rest

I only have a day off every nine days, but the important thing is that each muscle group gets 3 days to recover until the next time I work that muscle group. And apart from BB I lead a very sedentary life, I'm a writer and I work at home sitting down all day, so I get more than enough rest as it is. I really like this routine because it works for me, and thats the important thing, not what other people do, but what is best for you. I also work out at home so I can do whatever routine suits me without having to fit it around other lifters.
Every muscle gets worked every 4 days, with a little variation bewteen the two workouts.
I much prefer this way of working out because it allows me to go hard at every muscle, rather than doing squats and being too tired to really make an effort with biceps, which is what happened when I tried BGB, I hated the feeling of not really working my biceps, and even though I finished the workout it felt as though I'd only done half of it, my biceps felt unworked.

[Anthony]

So you can go hard on squats and still have some energy for leg press, but not for bicep curls?

[Songsangnim]

I tried the BGB routine and I have to admit that I feel the same way as the original poster, I get too tired to do justice to all the excercises. So I have come up with my own routine, and I'll explain it a little:
Day 1
HAMSTRINGS/GLUTES:
Deadlifts 4x8
Leg curls 3x8
CALVES GASTROCS:
standing calf raises 3x16 & 2x12

Day 2
PECS:
Flat bench 3x12
Flat bench 4x10
Incline cable flys 3x10
FRONT DELTS:
Shoulder Press 2x8
TRICEPS:
Skullcrushers 3x10
LATERAL DELTS:
Standing side laterals 4x8

Day 3
Back:
Bent over rows 3x10
DB Lying rows 3x10
BICEPS:
Hammer curls 3x10
Barbell Curls 4x8
CALVES SOLEUS:
Seated calf raises 3x20 & 3x16

Day 4
QUADS:
DB Side Lunge 3x8
Squats 3x10
Leg press 3x10 & 4x8

Day 5
HAMSTRINGS/GLUTES:
Deadlifts 4x10
Leg curls 3x10
CALVES GASTROCS:
standing calf raises 2x16 & 2x12 & 1x10

Day 6
PECS:
Flat bench 3x10
Flat bench 4x8
Incline cable flys 3x8
FRONT DELTS:
Shoulder Press 2x10
TRICEPS:
Skullcrushers 2x10
Skullcrushers 3x8
LATERAL DELTS:
Standing side laterals 2x10

Day 7
Back:
Bent over rows 3x10
DB Lying rows 3x10
BICEPS:
Hammer curls 3x10
Barbell Curls 4x10
CALVES SOLEUS:
Seated calf raises 3x16 & 3x12

Day 8
QUADS:
DB Side Lunge 3x8
Squats 3x10
Leg press 3x12 & 4x10

9 Rest

I only have a day off every nine days, but the important thing is that (1) each muscle group gets 3 days to recover until the next time I work that muscle group. And apart from BB I lead a very sedentary life, I'm a writer and I work at home sitting down all day, so I get more than enough rest as it is. (2) I really like this routine because it works for me, and thats the important thing, not what other people do, but what is best for you. I also work out at home so I can do whatever routine suits me without having to fit it around other lifters.
Every muscle gets worked every 4 days, with a little variation bewteen the two workouts.
I much prefer this way of working out because it allows me to go hard at every muscle, rather than doing squats and being too tired to really make an effort with biceps, which is what happened when I tried BGB, (3) I hated the feeling of not really working my biceps, and even though I finished the workout it felt as though I'd only done half of it, my biceps felt unworked.


(numbers are mine)

1. Um no they don't Your lower back is worked six days out of every nine either with deadlifts, squats and rows. Your shoulders are worked every day. When you work chest or back you work shoulders. Even BD side lunges involve some shoulder work. You are doing WAY too many sets at least for shoulders. You might get away with this routine for a while, heck you might even see some gains from this. But sooner or later unless you have fantastic genes, are on steroids, or use very little weight you will very likely overtrain.



2. What results have you seen from this routine? I believe BGB was first posted this year. If you tried it and didn't like it and then came up with this routine, you can't have been on it for that long.


3. If you work back, your biceps should get more than enough work. Why worry about such a small muscle group? If you work legs, back and chest hard enough your biceps will grow nicely along with the rest of your body. You've never seen a 150 lb guy with 19 inch arms have you? Arm size comes along with increased chest (triceps) and back (biceps) size. The bigger and stronger your chest and back become, the bigger and stronger your arms will become. I have experienced this personally. When I stopped doing all direct arm work (except for 2-3 sets TOTAL) and focused on chest and back...my arms went from 14 inches to 16.

[Gilles1975]

So you can go hard on squats and still have some energy for leg press, but not for bicep curls?
Honestly, yes that's what I found out on Saturday.
I did a great squat routine, felt really satisfying, and then my leg presses (4 sets of 10) felt great too. Then I rested for 4 minutes and started my barbell curls and there was notrhing left in the tank. I was curling a weight I could do 10 reps with and I barely got to 6 reps. I only did 2 sets of 6, it was crap.
There are two ways you can construct a routine, you can pack lots of work in and have 3/4 rest days a week, or you can do fewer excercises and have no rest days, all that matters is that the individual muscles get sufficient rest (3 days) and you have the right diet. Some people (like me) just don't have the stamina for a heavy workout and prefer to space it out, maybe this isn't ideal for guys who want to get huge or powerlifters, but as I'm only looking to add 35 lbs of muscle it'll be plenty.

[Gilles1975]

(numbers are mine)

1. Um no they don't Your lower back is worked six days out of every nine either with deadlifts, squats and rows. Your shoulders are worked every day. When you work chest or back you work shoulders. Even BD side lunges involve some shoulder work. You are doing WAY too many sets at least for shoulders. You might get away with this routine for a while, heck you might even see some gains from this. But sooner or later unless you have fantastic genes, are on steroids, or use very little weight you will very likely overtrain.



2. What results have you seen from this routine? I believe BGB was first posted this year. If you tried it and didn't like it and then came up with this routine, you can't have been on it for that long.


3. If you work back, your biceps should get more than enough work. Why worry about such a small muscle group? If you work legs, back and chest hard enough your biceps will grow nicely along with the rest of your body. You've never seen a 150 lb guy with 19 inch arms have you? Arm size comes along with increased chest (triceps) and back (biceps) size. The bigger and stronger your chest and back become, the bigger and stronger your arms will become. I have experienced this personally. When I stopped doing all direct arm work (except for 2-3 sets TOTAL) and focused on chest and back...my arms went from 14 inches to 16.


I only tried he BGB routine once, and the 1st half sapped my stamina (I'm not the fittest guy on the planet and I'm too impatient to spend the next three months getter fit before I start doing weights) I just didn't like it and I won't be doing it again.
Who came up with my routine? I did. I like to work things out for myself, if it doesn't work I'll think up something else
You have a point about my biceps being overworked what with the back excercises, I'll have to modify this aspect, so thanks for helpng me to see this. As for shoulders, I will drop the shoulder presses to lighten the load.
Oh and the DB side lunges were left in there by mistake, I don't do them, I added them as a possible excercise but decided to stick to squats and leg presses. And I should have been more specific about squats, I don't do full squats I only do dumbell squats, hands by sides, and this excercise does nothing for the back, so that lightens the load on the back. Sorry, I should have said.

[bics56]

wow this thread went to crap...to the OP...i dont care for your routine either. And I could care less how big/strong/what their avatar pic looks like....fact is there are big/built poeple who think they know a ton and really don't...and there are people who think only their routine/theory is the only good one out there. So I try not to correlate how big people with the quality of advice. So here is my advice (notice I don't post stats or pics in my avatar....just not my style)

There are a ton of good routines on this site and a ton of different ways you can do them...read a few and see if any stick out for something you will like to do. If you liek the routine you have now then I would advise you to switch it up a little. maybe like this

Chest/Back
Legs
Shoulder/traps
arms

Where I would make sure you would incluse squats, DL's, presses, OH presses, cleans

[Anthony]

There are two ways you can construct a routine, you can pack lots of work in and have 3/4 rest days a week, or you can do fewer excercises and have no rest days

The funny part is, you average more exercises per day than a full body or upper/lower split.

The sad part is, you're unaware that there's more to recovery than just muscle tissue.

[Gilles1975]

The funny part is, you average more exercises per day than a full body or upper/lower split.

The sad part is, you're unaware that there's more to recovery than just muscle tissue.
So instead of just being a smart ass, why don't you tell me what I'm missing?
The funny part is that there is one area where I will always know more than you, and that is what my own individual body responds best to.

[MixmasterNash]

Wow, the original routine is something special.

The legs and posterior chain are about 70% of the body's muscle mass, and yet they get 25% of the work. And there's a whole week off between sessions.

[Gilles1975]

There's a lot a crap talked about rest days. I have a friend who's a construction worker, he works six days a week and lifts heavy for 5-6 hours a day. He doesn't go to a gym because people who work in his profession don't need to. He has a massive phyique and never complains about feeling overtrained. Go figure.

[TwiloMike]

So instead of just being a smart ass, why don't you tell me what I'm missing?
The funny part is that there is one area where I will always know more than you, and that is what my own individual body responds best to.
You tried BGB once and you already know that your body doesn't respond well to it? Ummm ok.

[TwiloMike]

There's a lot a crap talked about rest days. I have a friend who's a construction worker, he works six days a week and lifts heavy for 5-6 hours a day. He doesn't go to a gym because people who work in his profession don't need to. He has a massive phyique and never complains about feeling overtrained. Go figure.
Considering that he employs every trick available to minimize the load his muscles have to bear and doesn't train to specifically fatigue his muscles I'm not surprised that he doesn't feel overtrained.

[MarkY]

I think it's a crap routine and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

I agree 100%. Ever hear of rest?

[Anthony]

So instead of just being a smart ass, why don't you tell me what I'm missing?
The funny part is that there is one area where I will always know more than you, and that is what my own individual body responds best to.

I did tell you.

1) You're doing more work each day on a body part split than a full body or upper/lower split. So your argument about spreading out the work doesn't hold.

2) Muscle recovery is only part of the puzzle. CNS recovery is just as important, maybe more so depending on who you ask. Every day you train heavy, your CNS gets hit, even if the muscles are different. Don't give your CNS time to recover and best case scenario you burn out and take some time off. Worst case you get injured.

3) Construction workers don't lift "heavy" for 5-6 hours. They lift light loads continuously for hours. Which is great for GPP and work capacity.

[Doobs]

Hey, I need a little help.

I want to workout every single day of the week, and I have the option to, so would it be good or bad?

I find when I have days combined, such as Chest/Tris and Back/Bis on different days, I can't focus on "one muscle." I do back, then biceps. I find I can't do as much as I normally would when I work my biceps, so I'm thinking a seperate day for them to get full control.

Here's how I'd work it out:

Monday-Chest
Tuesday-Biceps
Wednesday-Shoulders
Thursday-Triceps
Friday-Back
Saturday-Abs
Sunday-Legs

My friend uses this workout and has been over around 1 year and 4 months. And he's HUGE.

It gives me the same rest time per week for each muscle, plus I have each day to focus on every muscle instead of worrying about not having enough time to get a certain excersize in for my second muscle.

If you need to lift every day:
Monday-Upper
Tuesday-Lower
Wednesday-Active Recovery
Thursday-Upper
Friday-Lower
Saturday-Active Recovery
Sunday-GPP

It's very important not to go crazy with volume and intensity on every day. The active recovery days will act as a rest day but you can still be in the gym working, and you can throw in stuff like calves on that day.

I did a split like your original one for a long time and made a little bit of gains, but it was too lazy for me. Going into the gym for a day of biceps is very anti-climactic. Another problem is that you can work your legs much more often than once a week.

If you do a routine just because someone bigger than you is doing it, you won't get very far. Every routine works if you eat right. EVERY ROUTINE WORKS if you eat right. Some work better than others, which is what everyone else in this thread is saying. I would guess that 90% of the people in this forum have done a routine because the person they want to look like is doing it. Then we learn, after a lot of experimentation, that there are better ways to do it.

[Songsangnim]

If you need to lift every day:
Monday-Upper
Tuesday-Lower
Wednesday-Active Recovery
Thursday-Upper
Friday-Lower
Saturday-Active Recovery
Sunday-GPP

It's very important not to go crazy with volume and intensity on every day. The active recovery days will act as a rest day but you can still be in the gym working, and you can throw in stuff like calves on that day.

I did a split like your original one for a long time and made a little bit of gains, but it was too lazy for me. Going into the gym for a day of biceps is very anti-climactic. Another problem is that you can work your legs much more often than once a week.

If you do a routine just because someone bigger than you is doing it, you won't get very far. Every routine works if you eat right. EVERY ROUTINE WORKS if you eat right. Some work better than others, which is what everyone else in this thread is saying. I would guess that 90% of the people in this forum have done a routine because the person they want to look like is doing it. Then we learn, after a lot of experimentation, that there are better ways to do it.


Not every routine works just because you eat right. There is such a thing as overtraining and not just muscles but the CNS as well. The routines of many pros would overtrain most of us, since we do not have their genetics and use their cycles. I would say MOST routines work if you eat right and get lots of rest. That said I agree with the rest of your post.

[Doobs]

fair enough