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Slim Schaedle
08-14-2006, 11:16 AM
Don't kill me if this borders on the likes of a creatine thread where I should know better. Every time I tried tio search it, search seemed to be broken.

I will get to the point...

My right knee has been bothering me for about the last year. It has been a dull pain in the area shown on the pic below.

I am guessing this is due to squats. My stance was very narrow for quite some time since it was most effective. I have widened it up a little, and it is pretty close to what is in my video link in my sig. (I'm not the smaller guy)

The problems started when I finally got over 3 plates.

I have taken glucosamine for a while now.

The pain will go away for a but, but comes back often, sometimes right after a set of squats. Pretty much every time I get up from sitting, my knees creak a little.

I talked to my brother since he is a physical therapist, but he only recomends taking a break from squats.

Assuming I don't do that, as I donlt think the problem is too severe, what is the next best thing?

Are wraps an option? If so, what would be best. Inzer?

I could probably look this up all day in google searches, but I would rather trust you guys.

Slim Schaedle
08-14-2006, 11:19 AM
pic of problem area

Anthony
08-14-2006, 11:40 AM
How much and what type of warmup are you doing before you squat? You might just need to move the joint more (bike, row, free squats) to get it lubricated enough. Just a thought ...

Slim Schaedle
08-14-2006, 11:49 AM
How much and what type of warmup are you doing before you squat? You might just need to move the joint more (bike, row, free squats) to get it lubricated enough. Just a thought ...
Normally the walk from my car, accross campus, to the rec is what I do for warm up. It usually takes 5-10 minutes and I walk a good pace.

Also, a set or two of light weight.

The problem started during a time when I was doing a few good sets (warm ups as well as heavy sets) of leg extensions before squats

Anthony
08-14-2006, 12:05 PM
Walking is okay, but you don't get the full rom in the knee and (for me at least) that is important when warming up for squats. I would incorporate 5 minutes of light biking, or maybe 2-5 minutes of light rowing, and 20-30 non-weighted squats. Basically, just bring the knee through the entire range of motion for 5+ minutes.

Play around with those numbers and see if it helps. If not, you'll have to wait for someone smarter than me to make a suggestion. :D

And I'd personally drop the extensions, I hate those things.

Slim Schaedle
08-14-2006, 12:13 PM
Sounds good Anthony, thanks.

Bob
08-14-2006, 12:26 PM
I had a similar problem from your description.. but not quite from the picture... about 8 months ago..

PT helped a little.. reminded me of a couple of good stretches.. like:
http://www.exrx.net/Stretches/HipAbductors/StandingIbiotibial.html

But the miracle seemed to be the foam roller... massaging all my legs (including knees & shins), butt and back muscles.. I use it 4-6 hrs after my leg workouts and again the next morning.. amazing.. really amazing...

Clifford Gillmore
08-14-2006, 02:38 PM
The problem started during a time when I was doing a few good sets (warm ups as well as heavy sets) of leg extensions before squats

Just a thought, but leg extensions put knees in their most damaging position. How about some knee sleeves?

drew
08-14-2006, 03:42 PM
TKE's will save your knees. I like to do 3x10 at least 4 days a week.

http://asp.elitefts.com/qa/default.asp?qid=33895&tid=115

WillKuenzel
08-14-2006, 04:29 PM
What kind of shoes are you wearing when you squat?

I can almost bet that you're wearing tennis shoes or that when you squat the weight is up on the balls of your feet and not on your heels. When you squat you should be sitting back and the weight should be on your heels. If you can't lift up your toes when you squat then you're sitting forward. This is going to shift the focus from the hamstrings and glutes to your quads. This in turn is going to take pressure off the hips and put the pressure on your knees.

I have the same issues if I don't watch how I squat. I'm sitting back much better now and have almost no issues with my knees at all and they were bad for years.

Slim Schaedle
08-14-2006, 06:46 PM
What kind of shoes are you wearing when you squat?

I can almost bet that you're wearing tennis shoes or that when you squat the weight is up on the balls of your feet and not on your heels. When you squat you should be sitting back and the weight should be on your heels. If you can't lift up your toes when you squat then you're sitting forward. This is going to shift the focus from the hamstrings and glutes to your quads. This in turn is going to take pressure off the hips and put the pressure on your knees.

I have the same issues if I don't watch how I squat. I'm sitting back much better now and have almost no issues with my knees at all and they were bad for years.
I used to use those kind of shoes and had no problems. Over the winter I found some wrestling shoes (pretty much the exact ones that HeavyBomber wears, if you have seen his videos) and wear those religiously. So I don't think the problem stems from there.

Thanks for the replys so far... the names I look up to responding here so I really appreciate that.

shootermcgavin7
08-14-2006, 07:47 PM
Slim, just a couple thoughts....

I know you said you think it is squats...any correlation between your deadlift weights & the injury? I had a right knee injury about 6-7 months ago that I thought might be due to squats, it actually was the way I was pulling deads. I realize that is a little unusual, but I figured I'd throw it into the ring.

Also, if it IS squats and the wrestling shoes still don't cut it; I squat and deadlift in my bare feet. I realize this may not be an option at your gym.


And you know not to bounce at the bottom of a squat, obviously, so that is out.

I defer to the really hardcore guys on this one, but I figured I'd add my 2c.

RickTheDestroyer
08-14-2006, 08:03 PM
Knee sleeves (I have and like the APT ones, although they tend to roll down the bottoms of my quads a lot) and dedicated stretching and foam-rollering have done wonders for my knees. I'm with everyone else on the extended warmup too.
I'm going to start some of those TKEs too.

dw06wu
08-14-2006, 08:41 PM
Well I don't have much to say other than I have asked the wrap question here before. I was told that wraps, while good for protecting the joint, should really only be used to hit max weights for a comp. They stabilize the joint thus allowing you to use more weight. Same sub-par form + more weight = bad. This is the info that I gathered from my thread, at least.

Sensei
08-14-2006, 10:32 PM
Here's a good article by Rick Walker. I don't necessarily agree with everything, but it something you should consider. http://www.dieselcrew.com/articles/cleaningupthesquat.pdf

This may or may not apply to you (disregard it if it does not), but I've had knee issues when doing leg extensions and olympic-style high-bar squatting, but never when doing PL squats properly. At least until your knee has healed, I would focus on widening your stance and sitting back as far as possible - under no circumstances should your knees track forward and/or your weight shift onto the ball of your foot.

Shooter mentioned deadlifts - I've had knee issues as well when deadlifting. You might examine your stance there as well.

Slim Schaedle
08-15-2006, 04:02 PM
Thanks alot for the replys so far. Today is high rep day on UD2 so that gives me a nice light weight to concentrate on what you all have mentioned.

WillKuenzel
08-15-2006, 04:05 PM
If its a light weight high rep day, see if you can keep your toes pointed up in your shoes the whole time. Hopefully this will shift the weight back a bit and take some of the stress off your knees.

Patz
08-19-2006, 07:02 AM
I personally wouldn't touch any kind of extension machine. I think they put too much stress on the joints.

I've found in the past that what I usually think is causing my pain isn't actually causing it, but only bringing it to the surface. Something else is weakening me there first.

jkirkpatrick
08-19-2006, 11:26 AM
Rheumatoid arthritis is my problem. I do warmup squats, anywhere from 15-20 reps for three sets at 135lbs before I do anything heavier.

Helps me a lot. If I don't do that, my knees hurt the next day too. I've tried the bike, etc, but light weight squats x multiple reps works best for me.

Slim Schaedle
10-26-2006, 11:09 AM
Just to update y'all

Everyone's input has hepled tremedously and I have no pain anymore.

The wide stance helps a ton. However, I do see better quad and glute development with close stance, so it would nice to incorporate that once again.

Ham development with wide stance is nice though.

Thanks again for all the replys.