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View Full Version : Cleans vs. Power cleans..



Natetaco
08-21-2006, 09:18 AM
Just wondering what the main difference between these two excersizes is. I always thought they were the same thing but iv been told differently. What makes them different? and is one any more superior to the other?

ArchAngel777
08-21-2006, 09:28 AM
Power Cleans are muscled up and pulled as high as possible and caught with only a slight dip (above parallel).

Cleans (AKA Squat Clean) is caught below parallel... This allows people to clean more weight. It requires a great amount of flexability and in addition to that, front squat strength.

Essentially the differences result in this.

Power Clean = Less weight, higher pull, caught higher up. (Above Parallel)

Clean = More weight, hard pull, jump under the weight. (Below Parallel)

I would stick to power cleans unless you have been trained properly and or have a set of bumper plates.

Guido
08-21-2006, 09:33 AM
I was wondering this same thing, and it turns out I've been doing Power Cleans all along. I assume that front squatting as part of your regular workout program will help in learning to execute proper Cleans?

MixmasterNash
08-21-2006, 10:03 AM
I was wondering this same thing, and it turns out I've been doing Power Cleans all along. I assume that front squatting as part of your regular workout program will help in learning to execute proper Cleans?

Not really. Front squats will build strength and some flexibility, but not the technique or coordination needed to catch the pull.

erik-the-red
08-21-2006, 10:05 AM
From my thread (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=81249),
I guessed that the power clean employs a high pull to get the weight up to the shoulders whereas the (squat) clean employs a drop.

If you're on broadband, check out this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiiBP_vZt4g) clean and jerk from Ilya Ilin. I love how smoothly he drops under the bar. That's a squat clean.

In the Stefan Botev (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu4v-USn0DE) clip, he does a power snatch, a power clean, and then a set of squats. Notice how he didn't really drop under the bar for the power clean; he used a high pull to get it up.

Natetaco
08-21-2006, 11:41 AM
Ah i see now, thats sorta what i thought the difference was. Iv been doing power cleans. I dont think iv ever done a regular clean. But I am going to start doing front squats again so maybe this would help with clean strength. Powercleans involve more forarms, biceps, sholders, and traps right?

MixmasterNash
08-21-2006, 11:47 AM
But I am going to start doing front squats again so maybe this would help with clean strength. Powercleans involve more forarms, biceps, sholders, and traps right?
The key to the olympic lifts is technique FIRST and FOREMOST, not strength.

Power cleans, performed properly, should not involve those muscles more, because they weights are less than in a clean, and proper clean technique will minimize the need for small muscles to do anythign but stabilize. Power cleans, as usually performed in my experience, are half-assed upright rows that do tax the biceps.

Bob
08-21-2006, 01:02 PM
The key to the olympic lifts is technique FIRST and FOREMOST, not strength.
That's true.. for beginners, HS and local contests... but the major mags that cover OLY, say that at the global level, Americans are sacrificing strength for technique... they use some funny ratios to determine what level of technique the World Champions use before it becomes brute strength and explosive power that conquers the big weights. Push Presses, OH Squats, Front Squats, Power Cleans, Shrugs, etc still need to be trained for maximum strength and explosive power..


Power cleans, performed properly, should not involve those muscles more, because they weights are less than in a clean, and proper clean technique will minimize the need for small muscles to do anythign but stabilize. Power cleans, as usually performed in my experience, are half-assed upright rows that do tax the biceps.
Cool.. I must be doing then right, because I don't feel anything in my bis..

The real question for those of use trying to improve our athletic abilities, power, strength and test levels with Oly lifting... is do we need to do the Full lifts? Do we need to do Full Cleans? Or are power cleans enough? Do Full Snatches help more then Power Presses and OH Squats?

Do only competitive Oly Lifters need to do the full cleans and snatches?
This has been debated in a few interesting articles lately in print.

I personnaly don't know.. until next month.. when I take my 1st real Oly lifting classes.. I'm hoping there is some secret magic to getting the full flexibility of full cleans and attempting real snatch weight. I do the other supplementals now by myself, and folks look at me funny at the gym... but it will be interesting to learn from a professional.

MixmasterNash
08-21-2006, 02:03 PM
That's true.. for beginners, HS and local contests... but the major mags that cover OLY, say that at the global level, Americans are sacrificing strength for technique... they use some funny ratios to determine what level of technique the World Champions use before it becomes brute strength and explosive power that conquers the big weights. Push Presses, OH Squats, Front Squats, Power Cleans, Shrugs, etc still need to be trained for maximum strength and explosive power..
I've never read that Americans are sacrificing strength for technique. America has lots of problems being internationally competitive in weightlifting (#1 is football), but lack of strength?

Shane Hammond is a 900+lb squatter. He's not strong enough? Rezazedeh doesn't squat quite that much. Is he too weak?

But more to the point, we're talking about WBB members, not olympic athletes.

erik-the-red
08-21-2006, 02:37 PM
That's true.. for beginners, HS and local contests... but the major mags that cover OLY, say that at the global level, Americans are sacrificing strength for technique... they use some funny ratios to determine what level of technique the World Champions use before it becomes brute strength and explosive power that conquers the big weights. Push Presses, OH Squats, Front Squats, Power Cleans, Shrugs, etc still need to be trained for maximum strength and explosive power..

I've always thought that HS power clean technique is very lousy and inefficient. There's barely any pull; the weight is muscled up to the shoulders.

Hazerboy
08-21-2006, 02:48 PM
er, I was pretty sure that even for power cleans you use your lower back and hips waaay more than your biceps shoulders and trapsa. When I do power cleans I dont' Muscle the weight up, i use the momentum from the initial pull to get it up there.

ArchAngel777
08-21-2006, 03:03 PM
er, I was pretty sure that even for power cleans you use your lower back and hips waaay more than your biceps shoulders and trapsa. When I do power cleans I dont' Muscle the weight up, i use the momentum from the initial pull to get it up there.

Muscle up was a loose term I used. You are doing them correctly. I suppose the term muscle up may have confused some people. You can pull the weight higher because it is lighter and can use more of a pull on it. This allows you to catch it higher.

Natetaco
08-21-2006, 06:10 PM
I've always thought that HS power clean technique is very lousy and inefficient. There's barely any pull; the weight is muscled up to the shoulders.

I know exactly what you mean, its like you barely dip down at all and catch it at your neck. sorta looks like a deadlift to and upright row.

John04Civic
08-21-2006, 08:01 PM
From my thread (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=81249),
I guessed that the power clean employs a high pull to get the weight up to the shoulders whereas the (squat) clean employs a drop.

If you're on broadband, check out this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hiiBP_vZt4g) clean and jerk from Ilya Ilin. I love how smoothly he drops under the bar. That's a squat clean.

In the Stefan Botev (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cu4v-USn0DE) clip, he does a power snatch, a power clean, and then a set of squats. Notice how he didn't really drop under the bar for the power clean; he used a high pull to get it up.
Isn't that unhealthy for your wrists ((video))?

erik-the-red
08-22-2006, 07:14 AM
Isn't that unhealthy for your wrists ((video))?

In my thread, khari mentioned that he once injured his wrists from cleans.

I'm no expert, but I believe that the bar basically rests on your shoulders. You use the wrists to support the bar.

Exrx (http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/ElbowPosition.html) has a page about elbow position. Notice the bar in the last photo on the left is resting on the shoulders with NO support.

Dinosaur
08-22-2006, 10:57 AM
Shane Hammond is a 900+lb squatter. He's not strong enough? Rezazedeh doesn't squat quite that much. Is he too weak?

Rez can front squat over 600 pounds for reps. I don't see Shane doing that to my knowledge.

But I do agree that yes, O-lifting is all about technique first then building the strength in that technique.

MixmasterNash
08-22-2006, 11:52 AM
Rez can front squat over 600 pounds for reps. I don't see Shane doing that to my knowledge.

But I do agree that yes, O-lifting is all about technique first then building the strength in that technique.
Glenn Pendlay reports that Hammon has front squatted 660lbs rock bottom.

I believe hammon is stronger than Rez, but obviously not nearly as good in the oly lifts that are more technique dependant.

Sensei
08-22-2006, 12:44 PM
The real question for those of use trying to improve our athletic abilities, power, strength and test levels with Oly lifting... is do we need to do the Full lifts? Do we need to do Full Cleans? Or are power cleans enough? Do Full Snatches help more then Power Presses and OH Squats?

Do only competitive Oly Lifters need to do the full cleans and snatches?
This has been debated in a few interesting articles lately in print.

IMHO, olympic lifts are great and, done properly, impart athleticism that you simply don't get from the standard core lifts. I got into a mudsling-fest w. xMeatHeadx about it in this thread:
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=73572

Dinosaur
08-22-2006, 01:39 PM
Glenn Pendlay reports that Hammon has front squatted 660lbs rock bottom.

I believe hammon is stronger than Rez, but obviously not nearly as good in the oly lifts that are more technique dependant.

Never heard that, cool.

And that's probably the major factor. One of my favorites is Naim, and if he didn't have the technique that he did, he would never be moving the numbers he moved. Technique and power go hand-in-hand in O-lifting.

Not disagreeing with you BTW, just so you know :thumbup:

MixmasterNash
08-22-2006, 01:43 PM
Somewhat off topic:
Here is a very interesting interview with Glenn Pendlay (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/core_march_1.htm), in case anyone is interested.

"When I completely tore my right pectoral muscle in half at 10PM one night, I got up the next morning and snatched over 300lbs about 10AM, or twelve hours later."

:eek:

Bob
08-22-2006, 02:35 PM
IMHO, olympic lifts are great and, done properly, impart athleticism that you simply don't get from the standard core lifts. I got into a mudsling-fest w. xMeatHeadx about it in this thread:
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=73572
Sensei.. that is one of the best threads ever on WBB.. it should be a Stickie!!

I'm not an expert in OL.. and I do agree with you that they are GREAT.. my point above was formed from a few articles I had read in a couple of mags.. I'm looking for them now for reference.. and just pointed to the actual FULL C&J and Snatch lifts... if they had advantages over the "component" lifts for the ordinary athlete/iron gamer. I'm definitely not sure.. and hoping to find out more in detail when I go for some real OL classes next month. I know personally, I can do most of the "component" lifts with some weight... but the full lifts befuddle me, especially when there is no trained eye around to help.

Sensei
08-22-2006, 02:47 PM
Somewhat off topic:
Here is a very interesting interview with Glenn Pendlay (http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/core_march_1.htm), in case anyone is interested.
"When I completely tore my right pectoral muscle in half at 10PM one night, I got up the next morning and snatched over 300lbs about 10AM, or twelve hours later."
:eek:
Great interview! Thanks Mix!

Sensei
08-22-2006, 02:59 PM
Sensei.. that is one of the best threads ever on WBB.. it should be a Stickie!!
I'm not an expert in OL.. and I do agree with you that they are GREAT.. my point above was formed from a few articles I had read in a couple of mags.. I'm looking for them now for reference.. and just pointed to the actual FULL C&J and Snatch lifts... if they had advantages over the "component" lifts for the ordinary athlete/iron gamer. I'm definitely not sure.. and hoping to find out more in detail when I go for some real OL classes next month. I know personally, I can do most of the "component" lifts with some weight... but the full lifts befuddle me, especially when there is no trained eye around to help.Thanks bearwolf. I'm not anything close to an expert either. I don't necessarily think that full olympic lifts > "power" snatch/clean > squat/deadlift/high pull and I don't know the answer to the question "Is it worth the time and energy to teach my athletes how to do the full olympic lifts?", but I don't think it is a simple question either...

Those classes sound awesome. Give us a review later, ok?

Sleepy Guy
09-10-2006, 12:50 PM
I'm no expert, but I believe that the bar basically rests on your shoulders. You use the wrists to support the bar.

That is true the weight rests on the shoulder collar bone. Hands are for support.

One other comment on the squat clean is when it is done right it seems effortless. When I do it wrong I tend to get the light head feeling.

nhlfan
09-10-2006, 02:15 PM
he does a power snatch, a power clean, and then a set of squats.
what is a power snatch, in relation to a snatch?

Sleepy Guy
09-10-2006, 04:28 PM
Same relation. Power snatch is with little bend in the knees. Snatch /full snatch is going into a squat position. Or push press vs. jerk. Push being little leg movement and jerk being the full.

There is also snatch quat is you are up for a challenge.

A trainer once made a shirt for his team that read "commit to the duck." It was a reminder to get under the weight.

erik-the-red
09-10-2006, 05:53 PM
what is a power snatch, in relation to a snatch?

Sleepy guy explains it well, especially the story about "getting under the weight." It's definitely the scary (and fun) part about Oly lifting. I don't do it that well yet, but I am working on it.

I took a few screenshots of Hossein Rezazadeh's 207.5 snatch.

The first one is his full (triple) extension.

In the second one he is already well into the drop.

In the third one he is at the bottom of the catch position.

In the fourth one he is finished and needs to hold it.