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Natetaco
08-27-2006, 02:20 PM
I was thinking, im looking to improve my cleans but I cant really find anywhere to put them in BGB (current routine). I was wondering if you guys thought it would be ok to have a day where i just work with improving my cleans? Maybe something like this?

Pwr clean-3x5
hang clean-2x6
upright rows-2x6-8
reverse curls-2x10
shrugs?

Laugh if you want please because i have no idea how to fit them into my routine or what accessory lifts I should do to help me out.

drew
08-27-2006, 07:41 PM
I would add them to any upper body day. If I do cleans, it's always on a bench day.

Jinkies
08-27-2006, 07:44 PM
Do powercleans on your squat days, go light on squat then move to powercleans. They are a powermovement but concidered a leg exercise as it end in a frontsquat.

Natetaco
08-27-2006, 07:51 PM
I would add them to any upper body day. If I do cleans, it's always on a bench day.


well on upperbody days I do deads and bench so I wont have any energy after a full chest and back workout. I guess I could alternate and do deads once every 2 weeks?

drew
08-27-2006, 07:51 PM
A full clean ends in a front squat. A powerclean is more upper back.

drew
08-27-2006, 07:52 PM
You could do that.

Natetaco
08-27-2006, 07:56 PM
You could do that.

alright. I would be doing powercleans instead of cleans. So if I do that, should I do any of those accessory lifts I posted?

drew
08-27-2006, 07:58 PM
I don't see how you'll really need any of those. Maybe up rows.

Natetaco
08-27-2006, 08:00 PM
Ijust thought those are all sorta a motion of the whole powerclean itself. Anyway thanks for the advice

LouPac
08-27-2006, 09:13 PM
If you're doing 5 sets of cleans with upright rows, I don't really think you need shrugs.

khari
08-29-2006, 04:53 PM
How good is your technique?

Natetaco
08-29-2006, 08:33 PM
powerclean, decent. But I think I definatly need some work. regular cleans, never done em.

khari
08-30-2006, 06:05 AM
In that case, I would definately do either power cleans twice a week, or power cleans once a week and hang cleans on a seperate day. Going a week between each session is a really poor way to get good technique.

Also, upright rows and reverse curls don't offer any specific carryover to the clean, and your listing them as accessory movements suggests to me that you might be pulling incorrectly. It's not uncommon to see people muscling up the clean like a reverse curl, but it's incorrect. All the power should come from the hips, thighs ect. For accessory movements, seeing as you probably want to keep your current program more or less intact, I'd stick with the basic lifts (hang clean, clean pulls) that will teach good form as well as strengthen the power clean.

Natetaco
08-30-2006, 03:12 PM
what are clean pulls? So just do like 3x3 powercleans on monday or something and then maybe couple of sets of hangs and clean pulls on friday?

stallion
08-30-2006, 03:35 PM
For what it's worth, back in high school when we did the BFS program, we did powercleans and deads on the same day.

khari
08-30-2006, 06:30 PM
what are clean pulls? So just do like 3x3 powercleans on monday or something and then maybe couple of sets of hangs and clean pulls on friday?


Clean pulls start with the weight on the ground, and the pull starts exactly as in a power clean except after the full extension, the bar is just pulled to the navel (essentially the height you would need in order to catch it in the full squat) instead of up to the shoulders and caught. It allows you to work with much heavier weights than you could power clean while still working on technique as well.

Yes, that sounds good. If the volume from the rest of your plan isn't too much, I might do a few more than 3 sets of powercleans, but that's for you to guage and you can vary it depending on how you feel.

D Breyer
08-30-2006, 06:55 PM
For what it's worth, back in high school when we did the BFS program, we did powercleans and deads on the same day.
That seems like too much to me...

Natetaco
08-30-2006, 07:01 PM
Clean pulls start with the weight on the ground, and the pull starts exactly as in a power clean except after the full extension, the bar is just pulled to the navel (essentially the height you would need in order to catch it in the full squat) instead of up to the shoulders and caught. It allows you to work with much heavier weights than you could power clean while still working on technique as well.

Yes, that sounds good. If the volume from the rest of your plan isn't too much, I might do a few more than 3 sets of powercleans, but that's for you to guage and you can vary it depending on how you feel.


So I think I got you on the clean pulls. Is it also called a high pull? So Ill do the cleans on monday and hangs and clean pulls on friday or the weekend. thankyou khari

Dinosaur
08-30-2006, 07:08 PM
Cleans then deadlifts is actually a decent way of going about things. This way you don't need warm-up sets for the deadlifts and everything's all warmed up.

Natetaco
08-30-2006, 07:11 PM
humm didnt think of that. Now I have plenty of options... I can do cleans and deadlifts without alternating weeks... lot of volume though.

khari
08-31-2006, 06:26 AM
So I think I got you on the clean pulls. Is it also called a high pull? So Ill do the cleans on monday and hangs and clean pulls on friday or the weekend. thankyou khari

Yeah, the only difference is in a high pull the bar is usually pulled a lot higher(obviously). Clean pulls allow to use a lot more weight (again, obviously) and to me feel a lot more natural. But if you're going to be deadlifting as well (I don't), you might not want to be doing another day of heavy pulling so high pulls might be a better option.

MixmasterNash
08-31-2006, 08:05 AM
Power cleans/high pulls and front squats are a nice combination.

Alwyn cosgrove doesn't recommend the full clean for most athletes.

erik-the-red
08-31-2006, 08:22 AM
Power cleans/high pulls and front squats are a nice combination.

Alwyn cosgrove doesn't recommend the full clean for most athletes.

Why does Cosgrove not recommend the full clean [for most athletes]?

MixmasterNash
08-31-2006, 08:30 AM
Too technical. If you have a good coach, fine, but 99% of athletes do not have a good lifting coach. There's not even necessarily a good reason to power clean instead of high pull, since he postulates that 90% of the benefit comes in the pull, and 90% of the problems come in the catch. I think those numbers might be a bit high, but the idea is fairly sound.

I think this is why the one arm dumbbell versions are excellent -- not at all technical.

erik-the-red
08-31-2006, 01:32 PM
Too technical. If you have a good coach, fine, but 99% of athletes do not have a good lifting coach. There's not even necessarily a good reason to power clean instead of high pull, since he postulates that 90% of the benefit comes in the pull, and 90% of the problems come in the catch. I think those numbers might be a bit high, but the idea is fairly sound.

I think this is why the one arm dumbbell versions are excellent -- not at all technical.

The technical aspect of Oly-lifting is actually what attracts me to it.

I do not have a coach, and I know that by practicing the Oly-lifts potentially incorrectly I risk injuries. Finer points here and there would help me out in that department as well as allow me to use more of my strength.

But, yeah - the technique of dropping, I love that part about the snatch and the C&J.

Natetaco
08-31-2006, 03:14 PM
Yeah, the only difference is in a high pull the bar is usually pulled a lot higher(obviously). Clean pulls allow to use a lot more weight (again, obviously) and to me feel a lot more natural. But if you're going to be deadlifting as well (I don't), you might not want to be doing another day of heavy pulling so high pulls might be a better option.


didnt really get that part.

Dinosaur
08-31-2006, 04:26 PM
Too technical. If you have a good coach, fine, but 99% of athletes do not have a good lifting coach. There's not even necessarily a good reason to power clean instead of high pull, since he postulates that 90% of the benefit comes in the pull, and 90% of the problems come in the catch. I think those numbers might be a bit high, but the idea is fairly sound.

I think this is why the one arm dumbbell versions are excellent -- not at all technical.

I actually agree with a lot of that. Unless you're doing some kind of sport where you need to clean, most of the time a clean isn't necessary. I've seen how a lot of the high school and collegiate football players power clean to make their weights, and it's atrocious.

And learning Olympic lifts without a coach = bad idea IMO. You can play around with some of them (hang power snatches, for example) but if you want the real thing get a coach. You will be surprised at how technical they really are and how much you will be missing.

khari
08-31-2006, 04:50 PM
[/B]

didnt really get that part.

Some people find deadlifting tough to recover from, so I suggested using high pulls (using less weight and pulling higher than a clean pull) instead just because they seem to tax recovery less, for me at least.

Natetaco
08-31-2006, 06:33 PM
So powercleans, then high pulls, then deads?

Dinosaur
08-31-2006, 09:34 PM
So powercleans, then high pulls, then deads?

If you're going to do that, do progressive pulls then McCallum-style. Warm-up with light power cleans, then tack on 10lbs and do a triple. Keep tacking on 10lbs and doing triples until you can't get anymore. Then start high pulling it, tacking on weight and doing triples until you can't do that anymore. Then keep tacking on weight and shooting for triples with deadlifts. Once you can't get three reps with the deadlift, toss on a little more and do a couple singles with that. Then go and cry in the corner.

Natetaco
09-01-2006, 01:51 PM
If you're going to do that, do progressive pulls then McCallum-style. Warm-up with light power cleans, then tack on 10lbs and do a triple. Keep tacking on 10lbs and doing triples until you can't get anymore. Then start high pulling it, tacking on weight and doing triples until you can't do that anymore. Then keep tacking on weight and shooting for triples with deadlifts. Once you can't get three reps with the deadlift, toss on a little more and do a couple singles with that. Then go and cry in the corner.


that pretty much sounds deadly

Dinosaur
09-03-2006, 08:54 AM
that pretty much sounds deadly

It hurts, trust me. You won't want to do much else that day.

Natetaco
09-03-2006, 09:00 AM
Alright heres what I think im going to do. Im going to take Dino's advice on this one then add something else to it.

On week 1 I will do powercleans with the triples and stuff like you said. Then the high pulls with triples.

On week 2 I will do powercleans and work up and do 2 or 3 singles. I think i should be pretty warmed up for deads so after the cleans ill do my 5x5 deads.

I feel like i only need to do deads every other week iv im doing all these cleans all the time. I want to do them alot so i can get my form better so ill do them everyweek and do deads everyother. How does this sound guys?:clown: