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teaturtle
09-02-2006, 05:07 PM
Well I'm a vegetarian and it gets hard sometimes to figure out what foods I can eat in good portions (not too much, too little) that will give me the macros I need. A lot of people are saying to eat chicken, tuna, and the like to get the required protein but since I can't have any of those it's difficult to get a high protien intake. I'm trying ot use whey (just recently bought vanilla nitrean) but it gives me stomach aches, makes me too full, and tastes horrible :(...

So basically are there any easy foods that don't require cooking skills and meet protein, carb, fat requirements w/o having to eat so much of it?? Thanks..sorry if I sound too whiny. I'm not, just lazy :p and skinny heh.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-02-2006, 05:09 PM
http://www.recipezaar.com/recipes.php?categ=high-protein%2Cvegetarian

:thumbup:

You need to acquire some "cooking skills"...

teaturtle
09-02-2006, 05:19 PM
ooh i was also wondering what effects whey would have on lactose intolerant people. would they be different?

teaturtle
09-02-2006, 05:21 PM
scarz- thanks so much for the recipes :). ill try to learn how to cook heeh.

dissipate
09-02-2006, 06:36 PM
check out TheGimp's journal in the journal section - he's vegetarian too

CODmasterJYK
09-02-2006, 07:50 PM
Hey man. Tofu, egg whites, and skim milk are great sources of protein.

teaturtle
09-02-2006, 08:00 PM
Is it true that too much soy is bad?

RickTheDestroyer
09-03-2006, 01:20 PM
teaturtle- I'm a semi-vegetarian (or vegetarian with poor conviction and lax morals- I eat fish and enything else from the water), and I don't have trouble pulling in 250 grams of protein daily. You won't need nearly that much.

I've heard that it's not great to have soy as your primary protein source, but I'm not certain that's the case.

With the whey protein- are you actually lactose intolerant or is there something else to the protein that's doing you wrong? Some whey proteins are purer and will have much less lactose included, so you could stick to those, but there are other options as well. I drink a lot of milk, so if it's not the lactose that bothers you then I would recommend that you do the same.

If you can find a protein shake that you like the taste of and that doesn't mess your stomach up, then that's a good place to start. Some other little snacks are natural peanut butter on whole wheat bread (a good quick snack with more protein than one would expect) and light string cheese (there's one brand that's 2.5g fat, <1g carbs, and 9g protein each).

teaturtle
09-03-2006, 08:38 PM
thanks :]

Mr. D
09-04-2006, 10:40 AM
I am vegetarian and i get about 200-210g of protein a day. I eat fat free cottage cheese, shredded cheese (lowfat and fat free), yogurt, skim milk, almonds, walnuts, fat free cream cheese and of course whey protein shakes.

Lentils, black beans and other legumes have a decent amount of protein too, just have to watch your carb totals.

teaturtle
09-04-2006, 12:36 PM
Well I know where I can get my protein but I can't eat enough of the stuff to get enough protein... that's the problem. Ive tried force feeding myself but that just ends up making me even fuller so I dont eat as many meals.

Veggie_Mart
09-26-2006, 06:21 AM
Hey everyone!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi everyone My Name is Martin Im from Leicester in the UK, Im 26 Years old been Lacto Ovo Vegetarian Now for 22 years, gave up eating meat in infant school.

I have been training now for 6 years, 4 years seriously and have fluctuated my weight during that time. I too can relate to every single vegetarian in here who wishes to include more protein in their diet, im so amazed that i found this forum it basically has voiced what ive been battling with these last few years.

I am 6ft tall and 14 stone, on a good day benching 90kg (8 reps)

Im currently seeing results and am putting 100% into my training and diet so im gunna list my foods and suppliments ona typical day

When im loading ill eat

Breakfast: 3 scrambled egg/poached egg on toast(24g)
Get to Work: Have a meal Bar from tescos (18g)
11am: Have Dunn River Nurishment Drink (21g)
1pm: Cheese Salad & Pot Noodle/Pot Pasta (30g)
4pm: Multipower Ready made milkshake (50g)

Go to the Gym---------------------------------------
7pm Home Made Blended Milkshake(40g)
8pm Usual Dinner (rice, pasta or quorn)(20g)

That gives me about 1 gram of protein per lb of weight.

I also have invested in some creatine and Amino acid sups which i take daily when im loading.

At the moment in order to gain weight in a noticable fashion / timeframe you have to eat and drink and sleep alot.

Ive tried plenty of things being a vege and would love to get into this vege forum, so if there are any vege newbies out their needing advice or vetran vegies wanna give some feel free, its nice to know im not alone.

Cheers Fellas.

Martz

hemants
09-26-2006, 08:12 AM
If you consume 2500 calories per day, and you need 150g of protein per day, that is 25% protein by calories.

So focus on foods that are at least 25% protein by calories. Nuts, cheeses, milk etc.

Try experimenting with different types of whey, and make a shake rather than drinking it straight. Milk, berries, almond butter and whey makes a great shake.

If you are lactose intolerant soy milk has very low isoflavone content. I used to drink a litre a day. Get the unsweetened stuff.

Veggie_Mart
09-26-2006, 08:39 AM
Ive tried things like nuts, went out bought tons of um, it really doesnt ake long before you bored stiff of chowing down on them, plus nuts like beans give you farts from hell.

I am currently paying alot of money to keep me proteined up one way or another, fortunetly the supermarkets have these atkins shakes which ive found are great, they are like 1.50 ($2) each but they contain nearly 20 grams of protein to only 2 grams of carbs.

Designed to help larger people drop weight via the Atkins diet actually is a good thing for vegetarians wanting to get their protein fix, they also do them in Meal Replacement bars, Keep your eyes out for them guys they are gold.

RedSpikeyThing
09-26-2006, 08:53 AM
If you consume 2500 calories per day, and you need 150g of protein per day, that is 25% protein by calories.

No you don't. You need 1.5 g / lb lbm of protein and 0.5 g / lb LBM of fat. The remaining calories can be whatever you want.

RedSpikeyThing
09-26-2006, 08:54 AM
You can try this vegan protein powder, found here: http://www.myvega.com/main.asp

Holto
09-26-2006, 10:39 AM
The supermarkets have these atkins shakes.

Wouldn't this contradict your lacto-ovo stance?

TheGimp
09-26-2006, 11:01 AM
Wouldn't this contradict your lacto-ovo stance?

How so?

teaturtle
09-26-2006, 04:01 PM
I've heard of vega and almost bought it until I saw the price and the amount of protein,cals,carb (not too much in a serving).

Holto
09-26-2006, 04:40 PM
How so?

Looked it up. I had it backwards. I thought lacto meant no dairy.

Veggie_Mart
09-27-2006, 12:52 AM
The Atkins Shakes are still just milkshakes despite them being designed for the Atkins Diet. The Atkins diet basically is eating protein without carbs, working on the basis that if you eat protein without energy it mobalises energy stores (ie fat) thus losing weight. Like i said its just a milkshake. High in protein. Which for me is an excellent source.

Plus im a lacto ovo vegetarian im not a vegan. I do drink Milk, Eggs and other dairy.

Im always looking for new ways to inject some protein into my diet and right now im getting my 190grams a day, but its hard work, and can be expensive.

I have found a nice vegetarian power meal i try and have it after any big weight workout

Vegetarian 1/4 Pounders X 2 (20g each) (40g)
Baked Beans & Vege Sausages (32g)
Poached Eggs X 2(16g)

Thats 88 grams Protein in One Vegetarian Meal.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-27-2006, 05:15 AM
The Atkins diet basically is eating protein without carbsIf you mean zero carbs in the diet, then that would be wrong. If you're talking about carb timing, well that is something else entirely. The Suzanne Somers diet is similar to this. My mom is doing the SS diet and she's already lost over 10 pounds.

Veggie_Mart
09-27-2006, 08:38 AM
I was merely outlining the point of the low carbs high protein Atkins diet and how as a vegetarian and a bodybuilder that the shakes that have been made for that diet in fact help me get the protein i need. I was not wrong. I use them more when cutting as high protein with low carbs is better for cutting.

Holto
09-27-2006, 10:31 AM
I was not wrong.

You're wrong about the zero carbs. That is only in the induction phase.

Built
09-27-2006, 10:36 AM
Hi protein and fat are better for cutting because they're more satiating, but I wouldn't recommend Atkins shakes - too much soy. And even "induction" isn't zero carb - it's under 20g.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 12:52 AM
Im not sure everyone replying to my posts are vegetarians and post just for the sake of an arguement. Little one liners that really have no relevence.

Firstly im getting results from my training. So what im doing must be working. Secondly if your gunna argue a point please make sure your correct.

Vegetarians by default have a high carb diet due to rice, pasta and potatos that we generally include in meals. This can lead to an excess of carbs, and we all know what happen to them. Lowering them when you are trying to lower your bodyfat is common sense and implementation of that actually works.

Im not wrong about Carbs, I never meant Zero Carbs. As a vegetarian zero carbs is practically impossible to implement, I merely stated that when 'cutting' lowering your carbs is a good thing and ive found the atkins shakes that help me They have only 1.5g carbs, whilst 22g of protein, they differ from my normal whey shakes which carry about 60g of carbs. And ive proved they help me.

Just for the sceptics out there here i have proof from the Vegetarian Bodybuilding Website. And i think they know their stuff on there.

http://ksteveh.tripod.com/cuttingdiet.html

Note Step 3 Calculate Carbs!

And as for "Built" who says the actkins shakes have Soy in them (Did you just make that up), thats just wrong as i have read the ingredients top to bottom. Its Whey Protein based man. Its high protein content is designed to compliment a heavy meat diet. Because i get no meat i have to make up my protein where i can

And what the hell is wrong with Soy anyway Millions of vegetarians all over the world use soy in their diets to get the protein they need.

Ive read your articles "Built" and by your own admission your own Cutting Shakes you halve the amount of carbs compared to your loading shakes, this is what im trying to put across to you but modified for a NO MEAT diet!

:ninja:

Ok Rant Over!

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 01:15 AM
And what the hell is wrong with Soy anyway Millions of vegetarians all over the world use soy in their diets to get the protein they need.Phytoestrogens.


Are you a strict vegetarian? Because you consume milk products. I guess that's ok for you.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 01:19 AM
Read Up Im Lacto Ovo - I simply dont eat meat!

You should check on your clasifications of vegetarians Scarz

http://www.vnv.org.au/Definitions.htm

I couldnt care less if Built was a little Green Alien she clearly jumped in made a point that was wrong. More of an assumption!

Phytoestrogens dont seem to bother the 3 billion people in the far east that use soy products over animal products

Built
09-28-2006, 01:26 AM
Veggie, you're right - my bad. Atkins shakes don't have a lot of soy - but they do have soy oil and soy lecithin: http://www.atkins.com/products/vanilla-caramel-creme-ready-to-drink-shake

And a whole lot of other junk.

It's the bars that have soy protein: http://www.atkins.com/products/atkins-advantage-caramel-chocolate-peanut-nougut-bar

They're crap, too.

Veggie Mart, I actually mod a vegetarian BB site. I'm more than familiar with the lifestyle.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 01:31 AM
Hey thats not what Im drinking!

Ingredients

Water, Milk Protein, Sunflower Oil, Cocoa Powder, Whey Protein, Inulin, Stabliser and Flavouring

No soy of any kind i promise.

Built im sure you are familair with the lifestyle, but i been lvining it all these years and know what works and what doesnt, first hand! and its pretty messed up meat eaters thinking they know better!

Im here to help other vegies with the same problems not battle my corner against a bunch of carnivores!

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 01:32 AM
Phytoestrogens dont seem to bother the 3 billion people in the far east that use soy products over animal products"Soy phytoestrogens disrupt endocrine function and have the potential to cause infertility and to promote breast cancer in adult women."

"Soy phytoestrogens are potent antithyroid agents that cause hypothyroidism and may cause thyroid cancer. In infants, consumption of soy formula has been linked to autoimmune thyroid disease."

"High levels of phytic acid in soy reduce assimilation of calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and zinc. Phytic acid in soy is not neutralized by ordinary preparation methods such as soaking, sprouting and long, slow cooking. High phytate diets have caused growth problems in children."

"Trypsin inhibitors in soy interfere with protein digestion and may cause pancreatic orders. In test animals soy containing trypsin inhibitors caused stunted growth."

"Vitamin B12 analogs in soy are not absorbed and actually increase the body’s requirement for B12."

"Fragile proteins are denatured during high temperature processing to make soy protein isolate and textured vegetable protein."

"Processing of soy protein results in the formation of toxic lysinoalanine and highly carcinogenic nitrosamines."

"Free glutamic acid or MSG, a potent neurotoxin, is formed during soy food processing and added to many soy foods."

"Soy foods contain high levels of aluminum which is toxic to the nervous system and the kidneys."


"Babies fed soy-based formula have 13,000 to 22,000 times more estrogen compounds in their blood than babies fed milk-based formula."

"Infants exclusively fed soy formula receive the estrogenic equivalent of at least five birth control pills per day."

"Male infants undergo a “testosterone surge” during the first few months of life, when testosterone levels may be as high as those of an adult male. During this period, baby boys are programmed to express male characteristics after puberty, not only in the development of their sexual organs and other masculine physical traits, but also in setting patterns in the brain characteristic of male behavior."

"Pediatricians are noticing greater numbers of boys whose physical maturation is delayed, or does not occur at all, including lack of development of the sexual organs. Learning disabilities, especially in male children, have reached epidemic proportions."

"Soy infant feeding—which floods the bloodstream with female hormones that inhibit testosterone—cannot be ignored as a possible cause for these tragic developments. In animals, soy feeding indicates that phytoestrogens in soy are powerful endocrine disrupters."

"Almost 15 percent of white girls and 50 percent of African-American girls show signs of puberty such as breast development and pubic hair, before the age of eight. Some girls are showing sexual development before the age of three. Premature development of girls has been linked to the use of soy formula and exposure to environmental estrogens such as PCBs and DDE."

Built
09-28-2006, 01:52 AM
Veggie - I'm not fighting you. I respect your decision to not eat meat. You can be a perfectly healthy and jacked bb without meat.

I would suggest ditching the Atkins shakes - get yourself a good quality shake, such as Nitrean, and add in fats and or dextrose according to your ergogenic needs. Cheaper, healthier, and better-tasting.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 02:00 AM
I think you probably missunderstood how much i take them,

I do have and regularly take high quality shakes, they merely represent 330 ml snack drink during my working day, available to buy at the supermarket near where i work, they are a ready to drink quick fix of protien when im away from my blender.

As posted at the top

Breakfast: 3 scrambled egg/poached egg on toast(24g)
Get to Work: Have a meal Bar from tescos (18g)
11am: Have Dunn River Nurishment Drink (21g)
1pm: Cheese Salad & Pot Noodle/Pot Pasta (30g)
4pm: Multipower Ready made milkshake (50g) <- during cutting this one gets replaced with a low carb

5pm Go to the Gym---------------------------------------

7pm Home Made Blended Milkshake + Fruit(40g)
8pm Usual Dinner (rice, pasta or quorn)(20g)

That gives me about 1 gram of protein per lb of weight distrubuted in manageable amounts during my day.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 02:09 AM
Scarz, thanks for that wonderful copy and paste job, it still doesnt prove that it does the chinese and japanese people any harm.

And if i was a Baby, an Infant or a Woman id be $hitting my pants!

No wonder the babies in the far east cant bench as much as us!

Built
09-28-2006, 02:09 AM
Okay, well, you eat a lot of processed food.

My typical day looks like this:

Training day
Target macros:173g of protein, 75g of fat, and 149g of carbohydrate, 1,960 calories in total.

Food Choices and amounts:

**Cals Fat Carb Prot **
1% Cottage Cheese ( 300 gram ) 240 4 14 38
6 jumbo egg whites and one yolk ( 1 serving ) 179 7 3 26
Avocado ounce ( 3 oz ) 141 13 7 2
Beans, string, green, raw ( 1 cup ) 34 0 8 2
Blackberries, raw ( 6 oz yields ) 84 1 21 1
Butter, NFS ( 1 tablespoon ) 102 12 0 0
Cucumber, raw ( 0.5 cup, NFS ) 7 0 1 0
Lettuce, cos or romaine, raw ( 2 cup shredded ) 16 0 3 2
Peach, raw ( 1 small (2" dia) (approx 5 per lb) ) 34 0 9 1
Peanut butter ( 1 tablespoon ) 95 8 3 4
Pecans ( 0.5 oz (20 halves) ) 98 10 2 1
Walnuts ( 0.5 oz (14 halves) ) 93 9 2 2
poached chicken breast ( 300 gram ) 437 5 0 91
salad dressing ( 1 tablespoon ) 79 9 1 0
Whey shake ( 0.5 serving ) 56 1 3 12
Sugar, NFS ( 2 teaspoon ) 33 0 8 0
Pepper, sweet, red, raw ( 2 oz, raw, yields ) 12 0 3 0
Waffles ( 1 serving ) 193 2 23 21
Jams and preserves, apricot ( 0.66 tablespoon ) 32 0 9 0
Total 1965 79 119 204

How it will have been consumed:

M1: egg whites and yolk, pat of butter, half the sweet potato, apricot jam
<train, sip dextrose and whey>
M2: part of chicken, rest of the sweet potato,
M3: protein waffle, cottage cheese, half peach, half the berries, half the nuts
M4:romaine, avocado, part of chicken, red pepper, salad dressing, cucumber
M5:rest of cottage cheese, rest of the fruit, rest of the nuts
M6: last of the chicken, green beans, peanut butter with a dab of butter, melted and drizzled over beans

Rest day

Target macros:
161g of protein, 92g of fat, and 58g of carbohydrate, 1,703 calories in total.

Food Choices and amounts:

**Cals Fat Carb Prot **
6 jumbo egg whites and one yolk ( 1 serving ) 179 7 3 26
Beans, string, green, raw ( 1 cup ) 34 0 8 2
Broccoli, raw ( 2 cup, NFS ) 49 1 9 5
Butter, NFS ( 1 tablespoon ) 102 12 0 0
Peanut butter ( 1 tablespoon ) 95 8 3 4
Walnuts ( 0.75 oz (14 halves) ) 139 14 3 3
poached chicken breast ( 192 gram ) 280 3 0 58
salad dressing ( 1 teaspoon ) 26 3 0 0
1% Cottage Cheese ( 300 gram ) 240 4 14 38
Apple, raw ( 0.5 medium (2-3/4" dia) (approx 3 per lb) ) 41 0 11 0
raw sirloin ( 6 oz ) 276 14 0 35
Pepper, sweet, red, raw ( 4 oz, raw, yields ) 25 0 6 1
Avocado ounce ( 3.2 oz ) 150 14 8 2
Tuna, canned, water pack ( 2 oz ) 66 0 0 14
Cucumber, raw ( 3 oz, raw, yields ) 9 0 2 0
Total 1711 80 66 189

How it will have been consumed:

M1: egg whites and yolk, pat of butter
M2: part of chicken, green beans, pb and butter melted and drizzled ove it
M3: tuna mixed with cc, avocado, pepper, salad dressing
M4: steak, broccoli, butter
M5: rest of the chicken, couple slices of cucumber
M6: rest of the cottage cheese, half an apple, walnuts.

****************

I eat more produce than you do.

For portable food, how about a regular shake with a handful of raw nuts? Just carry it dry in a shaker cup, add water when you want to drink it, and knock it back? The raw nuts will contain EFAs you need anyway, plus some fiber.

And they taste good!

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 02:16 AM
Scarz, thanks for that wonderful copy and paste job, it still doesnt prove that it does the chinese and japanese people any harm.

And if i was a Baby, an Infant or a Woman id be $hitting my pants!

No wonder the babies in the far east cant bench as much as us!You gotta be kidding me.
LINK (http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&q=soy+phytoestrogens&btnG=Search)
LINK (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&amp;CrntRpt=DocSum&amp;DB=pubmed&amp;WebEnv=0hnfpoI2mOTOEQ_q5M9_Gke2ZyhzbJUaZx_-sSp-KaMB22AOdm9-5X%40D46E124351B83D80_0018SID&amp;cmd=search&amp;db=pubmed&amp;dispmax=20&amp;dispmax1=20&amp;dopt1=DocSum&amp;orig_db=pubme d&amp;query_hl=4&amp;query_key=4&amp;showndispmax=20&amp;term=soy+phytoestrogens&amp;textpage=1&amp;textpage1=1)
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&amp;CrntRpt=DocSum&amp;DB=pubmed&amp;WebEnv=0hnfpoI2mOTOEQ_q5M9_Gke2ZyhzbJUaZx_-sSp-KaMB22AOdm9-5X%40D46E124351B83D80_0018SID&amp;cmd=search&amp;db=pubmed&amp;dispmax=20&amp;dispmax1=20&amp;dopt1=DocSum&amp;orig_db=pubme d&amp;query_hl=4&amp;query_key=4&amp;showndispmax=20&amp;term=soy+phytoestrogens&amp;textpage=1&amp;textpage1=1)

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 02:34 AM
Built,

If i ate your diet minus the meat id waste away in about a month. Plus id have no time to do anything including work, training or sleeping as id be preparing food all the time. I get my fare share of fresh fruit n veg, but we cant all pay out for half a truck of produce everyweek. If you mean processed by the amount of shakes i take then yeah maybe but its really the only way to make up the deficit of protein in the time frame avaiable to me.

I get through a 30-40 tub of shake every 2- 3 weeks and a whole host of high protein drinks and bars. Its jsut adjusting to your own personal life style. I have maybe 3 hours of awake time at home per day, its hard to prepare meals that are as diverse and balanced as yours.

I do snack on nuts, but they dont contain all the aminos, and even with them in my diet id still come up short on protein.

You must have alot of time on your hands Built! Between Cooking, Posting on forums and training you cant have much time left.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 02:35 AM
Scarz you dont even know why your argueing. Your just taking up forum space, My first post on here shows i dont eat soy as part of my day to day but your on some anti soy crusade and i really dont give a crap!

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 02:44 AM
Of course I know why I'm arguing. You're stating there's nothing wrong with soy and convinced that it's 100% safe as an alternative to animal products. Further research regarding soy shows otherwise. What did you expect? I'm glad you're not using soy all the time, but don't get all pissy if something contradicts your way of thinking.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 02:47 AM
Then again Meat aint exactly without its risks tho is it?

i can google just as randomly as you mate, first two links i found, could do that all day until i found something wrong with every meat source! Does that mean youll give it up

Scarz just for you

Beef Causing Breast cancer

http://www.newsrx.com/newsletters/Cancer-Weekly/2002-11-05/110520023333CW.html

Beef causing Colon Cancer

http://cocoloncancer.info/beefandcoloncancer.html

Beef Causing BSE, CJD

http://www.mad-cow.org/

Could go on and on

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 02:51 AM
Then again Meat aint exactly without its risks tho is it?No it isn't, but that wasn't the point of the debate. The topic is soy. Air is full of lovely things that can cause illnesses, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't breathe.


And dude, I didn't 'Google randomly'. I used PubMed and Google Scholar. Try providing sites that are from peer-reviewed scientific journals and not some random website. You can Google all kinds of bull**** on the internet all day long. That doesn't make those sites valid resources.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 02:53 AM
Why the hell are you debating soy with me Iv already said i dont give a crap!,

Go eat some beef and play russian roulette with your life, im done talking to you.

And Next time im being sarcastic ill point it out,

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 02:56 AM
LOL...whatever dude. You could just calm down and open your mind a little to the world. You asked what was wrong with soy, did you not? If you didn't want a response, don't ask the question. And if you do ask the question, don't get pissed off by the response. It's possible to have an intelligent debate without blowing up like you so eloquently displayed here.

And I rarely eat beef. It's mostly chicken, eggs, and fish for me.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 03:01 AM
It ends now. Regardless of your google scholaring, people will continue to eat soy, prob live long past their meat eating counterparts.

http://ksteveh.tripod.com/Hilligenn.htm

This is who i aspire too, his current picture is at the bottom, at 77 he probably looks younger than you at 22! haha!

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 03:07 AM
It ends now. Regardless of your google scholaring, people will continue to eat soy, prob live long past their meat eating counterparts.My Google scholaring? Yes, damn that peer-reviewed scientific research regarding soy. I'm just going to ignore science entirely. :thumbup: Why are you ignoring the negatives of soy? Because you want it to continue being this magic food in your mind?

Good job at yet again proving nothing. You've turned this conversation into something else entirely.



This is who i aspire too, his current picture is at the bottom, at 77 he probably looks younger than you at 22! haha!ROFLCAKES! Wow, you're a funny guy. What does he have to do with soy? He's a vegetarian. Vegetarians are very capable of getting HUGE without eating meat. You've shown me nothing that I don't already know.

Get back to the topic and remind yourself not to ask questions that you don't want repsonses to.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 03:17 AM
No it isn't, but that wasn't the point of the debate. The topic is soy. Air is full of lovely things that can cause illnesses, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't breathe.


Why are you ignoring the negatives of air and stop breathing!

Most foods have at some point been proven to cause some illness or another doesnt mean i go into forums and link people to the research for the fun of it. Earlier wheni linked you i was being sarcastic, not that you had the mental capacity to get the funny side of it, still hell bent of ridding the world of terrible soy. What the hell you doing in this room anyway, youve proven nothing by linking, or copy and pasting form whichever source! Meat has more negatives than you could possibel imagine yet you ignore those. But im not gunna force you to read pages and pages of bias scentific data.

I did not come into here to debate soy!, i came into the MEATLESS thread to chat with vegetarian bodybuilders , of which you are not so do us a favour and get out the meatless room you waste of space!

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 03:24 AM
Why are you ignoring the negatives of air and stop breathing!I already made a comment regarding that so your sarcasm is really out of place and you're being silly.



Meat has more negatives than you could possibel imagine yet you ignore those.I'm not ignoring anything. Who said I was? At what point did I say meat is perfectly fine? I've been talking about soy. I'm aware of the risks. Everything has a risk. We choose to do what we want to do in light of or despite these risks.



Most foods have at some point been proven to cause some illness or another doesnt mean i go into forums and link people to the research for the fun of it. Earlier wheni linked you i was being sarcastic, not that you had the mental capacity to get the funny side of it, still hell bent of ridding the world of terrible soy.This is your problem. You think I think these things when I actually couldn't care less. My only purpose was to show you that soy is not some miracle perfect food. That's it. I was responding to your question and this entire debate got drawn out because you asked what was wrong with soy. You dragged this out by ignoring the facts. I don't care if you eat it or not. That has nothing to do with me. We all eat what we want and deal with the consequences. You just seem to be throwing out baseless insults that don't pertain to me because they stemmed from your misconstrued perspective of what you think I'm thinking. Calm down, seriously.


I know quite a few vegetarian bodybuilders and they're fairly huge. Not sure if this link has been posted yet: http://www.recipezaar.com/recipes.php?categ=high-protein%2Cvegetarian

There's some high protein vegetarian recipes for ya.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 03:30 AM
Maybe We should start again, all this fast typing cant be good for our health!

Friends?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 03:30 AM
LOL! Friends. Ok then. :) I'm sorry if I came off as sounding like a complete asshat.


*edit: Actually, I've been considering the vegetarian lifestyle for quite a while now. I may or may not get into it. We'll see.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 03:32 AM
I apologise too, i can be a bit defensive about my vegetarianism, just used to the "your not a real man unless you eat meat" mentaility i get from most knuckle draggers. But you seem quite clued up and your not the kind of person im confortable being all hostile towards

So Hi My names Martin Pleased to meet you :D

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 03:35 AM
just used to the "your not a real man unless you eat meat" mentaility i get from most knuckle draggersOh gawd no. I don't care if you eat meat or not. I can't stand that mentality. I have a lot of respect for [knowledgable] vegetarians. By knowledgable I mean the ones that are aware of the need for protein in their diet from lack of eating meat. I have a lot of unhealthy vegetarian friends because they think that if they don't eat meat, they're automatically healthy, but they are very undernourished and look quite pale and sickly half the time from a lack of protein in their diets (and also dietary fats). You seem to know quite a bit though, so that's good. Keep learning. If I became vegetarian I'd still advocate against soy because I just think there are healthier ways of getting protein.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 03:41 AM
Yes i hear that, i know them sorts too, I hate the people who tell me i look pale because and say its coz im a vege, its not completely true, i simply get no sun, lol, after ive been to greece for 2 weeks then guess im a vege.

It did take me some time to fully realise i needed more to grow i was a 1 shake a day man for some time (2 years) and got very gradual gains, now 2-3 shakes and upped my meals and bam weight piled on, sometimes too fast. Its crazy finding a balance thats right for you.


Scarz where u from and whats ur name pal?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 03:44 AM
I'm from the unholy desert state of Arizona (though I lived in California for 18 years and am going to move back soon) and my name is Brandon. Arizona sucks. Never come here if you visit the states.

TheGimp
09-28-2006, 03:48 AM
Personally I avoid soy simply because it is so questionable. I've read research (and some scaremongering) from both sides of the debate and figure it's not worth the risk. It makes my life a little harder getting my daily protein requirements but it's nothing that an extra protein shake (or two) can't solve in a pinch.

I have to say tho Mr Mart that I think you have an inflated idea of how much soy products people eat in the far east. Off the top of my head the average is something like 10g of soy protein a day.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 03:50 AM
Im from right in the middle of England

http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=450000&Y=300000&width=700&height=400&gride=&gridn=&srec=0&coordsys=gb&db=freegaz&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=&zm=0&scale=500000&out.x=6&out.y=7

Leicesters in the middle of that

Id love to come over to the states for a while, see how you boys do things over there, never been to the west coast. Been to New York a couple of times.

So what do you eat in a standard weight training day (loading phase)

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 03:51 AM
I dont even like soy lol, sometimes i find its in vege burgers and sausages sometimes but in small amounts its not ever gunna be a problem.

I really dont wanna talk about soy any more lol.

Gimp you a vege bodybuilder then dude?

TheGimp
09-28-2006, 03:54 AM
I'm a vegetarian but I think of myself as more of an "aspiring bodybuilder" ;)

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 03:54 AM
Sorry...random soy link again:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/pdf/PDF050400NL.pdf

That is a very informative site regarding soy. Learned many things that I didn't know (it's worth the read, I promise).



So what do you eat in a standard weight training day (loading phase)Not sure what you mean by 'loading phase' but a typical day for me is oats, bananas, strawberries, milk, eggs, olive oil, almonds, various other nuts, whole grains, tuna, chicken, vegetables, other dairy products, yogurt, egg white protein powder, etc... I'm pretty anal when it comes to eating healthy, that's just part of my personality. But I love meat too much to give it up. :(

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 03:57 AM
Well i think im in the same category, what are your stats, height weight, benching that sorta thing.

im 6ft tall about 202lb and am benching 92kg on the benchpress maximum i can lift (8 reps)

Same question to you Brandon.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 04:00 AM
Brandon how frequently do you eat, and how frequently do you train, do you eat as much on a rest day.

Loading phase is when you eat more and train harder during a period of time to gain mass and increase gains. Normally followed by a period of cutting to lean up and define muscles

getfit
09-28-2006, 04:02 AM
I'm a vegetarian but I think of myself as more of an "aspiring bodybuilder" ;)
:withstupi ;)

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 04:02 AM
Well i think im in the same category, what are your stats, height weight, benching that sorta thing.

im 6ft tall about 202lb and am benching 92kg on the benchpress maximum i can lift (8 reps)

Same question to you Brandon.I'd rather not talk about my puny stats at this point in time. I just got back into lifting again after...oh...8 years. I shattered my knee about 8 years ago, leaving me uncapable of doing any kind of normal lifting routine. It shattered and pieces of cartilage and bone ripped out, especially in the area of the knee that takes the most weight-bearing. After years of doctors telling me I'd never be normal again I finally found this surgeon that said I'd be as good as new. I had surgery in December and I had to learn to walk again. After suffering from severe atrophy, I had lost a lot of weight (I was down to 103). I wasn't eating that much (though I tried to eat as much as I could) and I was on Vicodin all day long while hooked up to a CPM machine.

Now...7-8 months after surgery I have finally started lifting. I am a lot stronger than when I started and I have gained 15 pounds over the last 2 months (I was a rail before I started). I will post before and after pics of me maybe in a year from now. I've had to overcome a LOT for the last decade. No sports or anything all throughout high school. Life pretty much sucked. You can probably now guess why I chose my username.



Brandon how frequently do you eat, and how frequently do you train, do you eat as much on a rest day.

Loading phase is when you eat more and train harder during a period of time to gain mass and increase gains. Normally followed by a period of cutting to lean up and define musclesI eat about 6 times a day or so. I don't really track the amount of times I eat, I just eat frequently. I am currently on a bulk of 2,500+ calories a day. I am 5'4". I train with the WBB1 routine 3 times a week. I've made good gains so far. I eat the same amount on my rest days.

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 04:10 AM
So you can walk now? Everything cool?

My younger brother was born with a leg condition which meant 12 big operations before he was 16 and was only finally discharged from hospital as "healed" at 18 years old (legs all scared up), He was on crutches, wheel chairs and casts for alot of his schooling, he suffered despite my best efforts at the hands of bullys and cowards. BUt despite all that last year we climbed the 3 highest mountains in the UK on the same day 300 miles apart and cycled accross scotland coast to coast.

If you want it bad enough Brandon youll get it! Sorry to push the stats thing on ya i just imagined you as the huge dude belittle the little vegetarian! lol

NO MORE SOY

Veggie_Mart
09-28-2006, 04:16 AM
Brandon, your instant messages is all full up,

Do you use Messenger?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
09-28-2006, 04:17 AM
So you can walk now? Everything cool? Yes, everything is fine.



My younger brother was born with a leg condition which meant 12 big operations before he was 16 and was only finally discharged from hospital as "healed" at 18 years old (legs all scared up), He was on crutches, wheel chairs and casts for alot of his schooling, he suffered despite my best efforts at the hands of bullys and cowards. BUt despite all that last year we climbed the 3 highest mountains in the UK on the same day 300 miles apart and cycled accross scotland coast to coast.That's an amazing story. Yeah, people can be so damn cruel. I was on crutches for what seemed like an entire year when the injury first happened. Everyone called me "Gimpy"...it was really annoying.



If you want it bad enough Brandon youll get it! Sorry to push the stats thing on ya i just imagined you as the huge dude belittle the little vegetarian! lolI've been waiting for this for 8 years. Had I not had this surgery, my knee would've only lasted 2-3 years before it gave out. Now the estimate is 10-30 before I need a complete knee replacement. And I hope to one day become that 'huge dude', lol.



Brandon, your instant messages is all full up,

Do you use Messenger?It filled up already? o_0 Wow. I've deleted quite a few messages, try again.

Built
09-28-2006, 12:50 PM
Built,

If i ate your diet minus the meat id waste away in about a month.
Honey, I'm a chick, I have less than 115 lbs of LBM, and I'm cutting. You certainly don't mean to tell me you'd waste away without processed food!



Plus id have no time to do anything including work, training or sleeping as id be preparing food all the time. I get my fare share of fresh fruit n veg, but we cant all pay out for half a truck of produce everyweek. If you mean processed by the amount of shakes i take then yeah maybe but its really the only way to make up the deficit of protein in the time frame avaiable to me.
Cottage cheese, hardboiled eggs




I get through a 30-40 tub of shake every 2- 3 weeks and a whole host of high protein drinks and bars.
Bars are overpriced crap - candy bars with protein in them. You'd do well to ditch them. Learn to make your own.



Its jsut adjusting to your own personal life style. I have maybe 3 hours of awake time at home per day, its hard to prepare meals that are as diverse and balanced as yours.

I do snack on nuts, but they dont contain all the aminos, and even with them in my diet id still come up short on protein.
I didn't suggest nuts for protein. I suggested them for a fat source.



You must have alot of time on your hands Built! Between Cooking, Posting on forums and training you cant have much time left.
I manage my time. Like you said, it all comes down to priorities. Mine include eating natural, fresh food as much as possible, relying on supplements such as shakes very rarely. I prefer to get most of my nutrition from food. You choose to get most of yours (certainly most of the protein) from very processed sources.

Veggie_Mart
09-29-2006, 12:53 AM
Thanks Built,

I stand by my points if i didnt eat the processed foods id be left with the diet of a under nourished vegie, the skinny unhealthy looking types, i do get my veg and fruit daily being a vege you sorta have to. But i only get chance to make 1 meal a day for myself and thats always post workout and its as healthy as i can make it. I already eat allot of eggs,tho have not completely harnessed the power of cottege cheese yet and will certainly up its content.

The price of shakes and bars are indeed expensive and i wish there was a reasonable alternative but without them id be well under my RDA for protein nevermind getting enough for loading.

Having read the plights of many people in my position, the ones that do bulk up all do alot of shakes in conjunction with eating a great deal, that does not mean ill do it coz they are, i read and read and read and make my own decision, weigh myself and do my own math on what i need, Check the back of every box or packet of food i buy looking for fats, and proteins.

Although i get my proteins from processed sources i do take vitimins deisgned specifically for vegies to give me what i dont naturally get. Ive tried to balance out what im eating the best i can.

We have quite a few products in the UK which do indeed help, the biggest one is a product called Quorn (pronounced 'cworn') its basically a kind of mushroom/fungus that is naturally high in protein, its ground up and stamped into the shape of nearly every kind of meat, I get Quorn fillets, Quorn Sausages. Quorn Bacon, Quorn Ham Slices, Quorn Chicken bits. And to the Eye it just looks like white meat and ive been told by some meat eaters that they couldnt tell the difference.

I use quorn in making fresh homemade healthy curries, fajitas and stir fries. Its applications are great.

I started to eat alot of vegetarian quarter pounders from my local supermarket they are cheap and dont really have alot of ingreadients and are a wopping 21gs of protein each, 2 of them on a plate with some salad and its giving me more than most shakes would.

I could go on and on, Yeah i know i need more fresh stuff, but unless i gave up my job i doubt i could manage such an intense diet, One way or another i get my proteins, fats, carbs and nutrients from my daily diet.

Built
09-29-2006, 02:02 AM
Homemade bars take no time at all to make up ahead of time. And it seems like you have to rely quite heavily upon processed foods to make up for your meatless diet.

Perhaps you need to chat with other vegetarian BBs - I can't imagine an artificial diet is what drove you to pursue vegetarianism. Most veggies I know are looking to a more natural diet.

My .02

I'm not unsympathetic. You've chosen an interesting challenge for yourself.

Veggie_Mart
09-29-2006, 02:27 AM
Its hardwork, But youve got to be realistic sometimes, i did not persue vegetarism to be healthy despite it being a very healthy way of life anyway.
I didnt really choose vegetarism, i guess it chose me, i was at such a young age when i gave it up that i have no memory of meat at all. I do know im faster bigger and stronger than all my meat eating friends and as the years roll past im remaining more youthful too, no crows feet for me.

Preparing food , fresh food does happen forme but only once a day, thats not big of a deal, i have to shop buy my lunch and breakfast as i have to be out the door pretty early in the morning.

Id be interested to see how you make your own bars and if you could link me or send me the details id give them a read.

And just for the record not all processed foods are bad, as long as you select them reading whats in them you wont get any nasty surprises. And as long as i get the necessary building blocks to gain lean muscle mass ill be happy.