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vason
09-06-2006, 01:26 AM
I dont know how many people on here are diabetics but I have been for about 6 years..and i've lost a fair amount of weight over that time ( i was 12 when diagnosed..bf was probably around in the mid-high 30's, its in the low 20's now) anyway i'm trying to start to work out more and gain muscle and loose fat at the same time. And i've been reading about these keto diets.. i can basically manipulate my insulin however i want. when i dont take my insulin i'm very sluggish and tired, 0 energy because i dont convert any of my carbs into energy. and obviously i loose muscle as well as fat so i've been stricter with my diet and taking shots regularly.. but i was wondering.. i know one version of a keto diet you carb up right before your workouts to give you the neccesary energy to have a productive workout (which i couldnt achieve before not eating carbs/taking insulin) so i was wondering would i still make good gains if i were to go onto a diet similar to this and what your thoughts are on a diet like this if you've tried it/are knowledgeable about keto diets. thanks

ps-the reason i wasnt taking insulin before was because i got lazy and didnt work out, thus i didnt want to gain weight so i pretty much dehidrated and deprived my body of energy so i could basically eat all the sugar i wanted and not gain a pound. but it had a very bad effect (catabolic i guess you would call it) on my body. and i lost a fair amount of muscle. but i'm not stupid anymore so i'm all good:thumbup:

vason
09-06-2006, 02:11 AM
That diet i was talking about is TKD.. and my body is sort of in ketosis all the time.. so it shouldnt be a problem adjusting to it.

dav619
09-06-2006, 02:49 AM
Welcome to the boards -

So are you asking if you should maintain your state of ketosis (to lose fat) and then just before your workout load up on carbs and take some insulin to process them for energy???

If this is the case it won't be effective for putting on any muscle. You may keep alot of your muscle whilst losing fat, but i doubt you will gain any muscle.

I would reccomend you consult your doctor before attempting to meddle with your insulin shots and diet. It could have VERY serous consequences for someone in your position. It just isn't worth the risk before you fully understand your body and what will happen to it.

If I were you I would take your insulin as advised, and slightly reduce your daily intake of cals. Keep lifting heavy and the weight will come off.

For many people on this forum getting into a ketogenetic (sp) state is the last resort to shed the very last few pounds off fat after a lengthy cut. Its not an ideal state to put your body in, especially if you are already pre disposed to such a state because of your diabetes.

vason
09-06-2006, 03:01 AM
For many people on this forum getting into a ketogenetic (sp) state is the last resort to shed the very last few pounds off fat after a lengthy cut.-Diets like atkins do it for extended periods of time..right?

yeah thats basically what i was considering, loading up on carbs/taking the appropriate amount of insulin before my workouts. as far as the whole destroying my body thing goes. honestly for the past couple of months i wasnt taking insulin at all.. and when i mean at all i mean 0.. my blood sugar level was probably close to 500 on a regular basis. but i could feel the effects it was having on my body and i've got that taken care of now. i'm testing regularly and its been under good control for awhile now. I'm curious as to why i wont gain muscle at all, i've read some posts on here about it where people said they have gained muscle...if i keep my protien, fat, and calorie intake(to some extent) up shouldnt i make gains? or am i way off here.. just wondering, thanks for your comment

dav619
09-06-2006, 06:35 AM
Yes the atkins diet does induce a prolonged ketogenetic state but this isn't ideal for getting big. You can lose fat but you will only make very small gains, if any.

Quite simply -

To build muscle you need to be taking in more calories than your normal maintenanace level. The excess calories will be used to build muscle (and if too many are ingested they are stored as fat)

To lose fat you need to be in a calorific defit, ie, less calories than your maintenance level. Your bodies reaction will be to use muscle and fat to provide you with the energy needed to survive. If you lift heavy weights you can stave off the muscle loss and encourage the body to use the fat instead.

Here is the problem, it is almost impossible to build muscle whilst burning fat. The human body just can't do it. You may see a very small increase in muscle size and strength whilst initially losing weight but this will be short lived and is known as "newbie gains". Its your bodies initial reaction to weight training but no significant muscle mass can be achieved.

Too make any serious gains you need to have a well balanced diet of carbs, protein and fats. When you cut out the carbs you won't be able to build muscle as effectively, plus you won't have the energy to train and recover.

What percentage bodyfat are you?
If I were you I would just do a healthy diet and lift heavy. Don't even think about ketogenetic diets until you have lost weight eating a balanced diet first. You really have to know your body,especially with you being diabetic I wouldn't reccommend it at all. Just lift heavy, eat right and the fat will drop off anyway.

kad
09-06-2006, 07:14 AM
If I were you I would just do a healthy diet and lift heavy. Don't even think about ketogenetic diets until you have lost weight eating a balanced diet first. You really have to know your body,especially with you being diabetic I wouldn't reccommend it at all. Just lift heavy, eat right and the fat will drop off anyway.
Bingo. Read all the stickies in the diet & nutrition forum before continuing. :)

Mercuryblade
09-06-2006, 09:43 PM
Your muscles need things like glucose even when you are not working out. Remember, you grow outside the gym.