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Razoul
09-14-2006, 12:15 AM
Okay here is my story. Me and a friend of mine decided that we are wasting the best years of our lives being fat bastards (me=380 him=420 both about 6 feet tall) so we decided to do something about it. I figured I would try to find some advice on the best way to get to our goals which lead me here. We want to lose weigth as efficiently as possible and at least not lose to much of the muscle that is hiding in the sea of fat. We are shooting for 220 but not sure if we should aim for that or go lower and then build back up to that with muscle. So any reccomendations on a plan or tips would be appreciated. How much we should shoot at to lose a month cause Im pretty sure losing to fast is a bad thing. How much wieght lifting and cardio would work best? Vitamins? Supplements? Hopefully this is in the right place but if not I apologize.

UnknownSoldier
09-14-2006, 12:50 AM
Ok..
What do your daily macros look like? (you know diet..) Fitday.com can track it..
You don't really need cardio... As long as you lift heavy.. I tend to do 5x5 sets...
If you really want to invest in a supplement... Thermocin from Atlarge is very great....
1-2 pounds in a week is normal weight lose.. But being as fat as you are (no offense) you'll probably drop alot more weight faster if you cut your calories tramendously... ( i went from 320 -270 in 7 weeks)
Lastly.. That's a decent goal.. But ... I wouldn't set a weight.... My set goal weight was 160... Now because of my muscle mass I put on... probably wont go below 180.. and you never know how it'll keep changing.

Razoul
09-14-2006, 01:22 AM
No offense taken. That fitday thing looks great Ill give that a shot asap. I chose that goal because a guy I used to play football with is about that weight and hieght. Im sure the goal will change as I get closer to it.

pakse
09-14-2006, 09:06 AM
Howdy,

Fat guy here, I'm a bit shorter then ya'll - and therefore a bit lighter; but here's my story so far.

I started around 5'8/265. No supplements, no bars - pretty much whole foods.

1. I'm down to 200/205 (depends on when I hit the scale; my weight varies easily 5lbs - my average drop is 2lbs a week; but some weeks are better/worse than others.).

2. Fitday.com -- I track every thing I put in my mouth. Especially on days when I screw it up (we're not even going to talk about what I ate yesterday).

3. I slide off and occassionally get thrown completely off the wagon once in a while. I climb right back on.

4. Cardio - I vary it up a bit; a little swimming, running, elliptical, etc... I try to stay active. I try to get in at least 5/hrs a week.

5. Weights - I follow WBB#1 pretty closely (a few subs, a couple of machines - but I'm close to it). I varried the routine in some cases due to injuries (bad shoulders - so I'm not yet comfortable holding the squat bar; therefore I just a machine to squat. DB rows instead of BB rows.

Anyway - the point of this is - I eat less calories than I burn on a weekly basis. I lose weight every week.

I'm also doing what I can to build/maintain muscle mass (not easy to build when losing weight; but the tape measure says I have).

I've gone from size 48 pants being snug on my waist to size 38 being comfortable. My amrs are bigger now; my legs show some muscle.

In summation - track everything you eat (fitday), do cardio (whatever type works for you - I like HITT), and lift heavy weights (WBB#1 works for me).

I'd encourage you to seek out cardio that sucks less than cardio that sucks more (does that make sense to anyone besides me?). Also - if like me you find some of WBB#1 that doesn't work for you - feel free to ask about changing it up here on the boards.

Good luck.

Keep the faith,

Pakse

bL33d
09-14-2006, 09:08 AM
Ya im 6ft and weighed 295 and went to a crazy strict diet of 2 bowles of cereal one for breakfast one for lunch and one serving of whatever at dinner. Lost about 70 pounds in 3 monthes 85ish all together now, and i was also walking/jogging everyday.

I had a goal of 220 but im lower then that now and want to hit 190 or so depending on my muscle mass... Just do it, take one day at a time and what helped me alittle was that i thought to myself everyone else wants me to fail and i want to prove them wrong :P weird but it helped.

Do yourself a favor though and just hit a certain amount of calories and do it by eating high in protein i wish i woulda sooner but i got it together now ;)

Unreal
09-14-2006, 09:12 AM
Consistency is the key. Stick to it. Keep each other motivated. At your point, focus on the basics. Keep protein high, cals restricted, and lift and stay active. Do as much physical activity as you can. While you are really fat weight loss is alot easier. As you make progress you can change you goals. When I was 300+ I thought if I got to 250 I would be good. Got to 250, was still fat. Thought 220, got there, still fat. Got down to 195, still had flab. Got back up to a leaner 220, still not where I want to be. Back down to 211.8 as of this morning, and probably about 8-10lbs away from what I want. It is a long hard process, but it is worth it.

bL33d
09-14-2006, 09:15 AM
Consistency is the key. Stick to it. Keep each other motivated. At your point, focus on the basics. Keep protein high, cals restricted, and lift and stay active. Do as much physical activity as you can. While you are really fat weight loss is alot easier. As you make progress you can change you goals. When I was 300+ I thought if I got to 250 I would be good. Got to 250, was still fat. Thought 220, got there, still fat. Got down to 195, still had flab. Got back up to a leaner 220, still not where I want to be. Back down to 211.8 as of this morning, and probably about 8-10lbs away from what I want. It is a long hard process, but it is worth it.


Ya im hopeing this last 20 pounds or so gets rid of the awesome man boobies im rocking :(

growthrep
09-14-2006, 10:40 AM
Hi. I'm 5' 11" and weight 223 lbs. I was 250 pounds of absolute disgusting slosh fat 6.5 weeks ago. I calculated my BMI and caloric needs to maintain and cut cals by 20% ultimately. For me I needed 3400 cals to maintain 250 so I started by eating just under 3000 and gradually cut to 2800 from there. I am now eating 2700 cals a day. I eat 6 small meals a day -- two of which are protein shakes in skim milk.

I eat lots of lean meat and green veggies. I eat TONS of fruit! I drink lots of water and skim milk. Cut out the sugar and butter. Cut out the fatty snacks.

I do weights MWF and cardio (HIIT) 3 days a week. Sunday I rest totally.

Just this morning my wife said to me :wow! Your tummy is totally gone but your shoulders look big and strong." Definitely lift heavy (6-12 reps) and intense.

Weights, sensible diet, cardio -- YOU CAN DO IT! My goal is 200 and I'm more than halfway there after just 6.5 weeks. I love the way I feel these days. If you can, read Body for Life. Good stuff in there.

Don't diet -- re-vamp your nutritional approach instead. You need to eat lots of water filled foods (grapes, for example) so you can get full.

See your doctor first. No matter what -- no matter if its raining, snowing, whatever -- no excuses. JUST DAMN DO IT!

Par58
09-14-2006, 10:48 AM
Ya Im gona the same bandwagon as you guys.. Just starting here. All I can say is that once you take out the ****ty food it becomes a challenge to rack up 2000+ cals of protien and good fats. Tuna for the win. Btw you can really customize the Fitday stuff to the regular meats/fats youll eat so it really gets easy once you learn it. GL Guys

Razoul
09-14-2006, 10:57 AM
Wow wasnt expecting this many replies in such a short time. Thank you all for the info. I will be putting it all together soon to figure out the best plan of attack. I love fish and veggies but I dont eat them much. Think I will start making that a bigger part of my diet. Military friend of mine recommened packets of tuna. Very filling and good nutrition. That fitday thing looks really useful. Once I figure it all out it will be a great tool. I wil also look into WBB#1. Thanks again everyone. My new husky pup will thank you too when I get into good enough shape to run with him.

growthrep
09-14-2006, 11:07 AM
Raz, Never doubt yourself. Get your plan in order and then execute every part of it with full commitment -- nutrition, cardio, weights. You should not be starving yourself. Choose good foods and be happy. Work hard, Rest well.

Go make it happen, baby!

Razoul
09-14-2006, 04:34 PM
Well currently I am trying to put together some kind of meal plan. Im trying to find as much info on it as possible so I can get that part up and running. Shouldn't take to long to figure out what to eat and how much.

russianwol
09-14-2006, 04:43 PM
Guys - take pictures and look back at them after 1 or 2 months. Will keep you motivated as well. The hardest part of cutting is day to day - you are always hungry, sometimes tired, etc. But days turn into weeks and weeks turn into months. And after that 8 weeks you'll see the difference if you were able to tough it day for day.

Have a cheat meal once a week to maintain your sanity though! Good job on undertaking this and stick to it! You won't be disappointed.

Razoul
09-14-2006, 05:02 PM
Those pictures shall be locked away and hidden from the world lol. But anyway thanks for reminding me to do that. It will be great to look back in a few months and see the progress.

Al3X
09-14-2006, 05:53 PM
Weighed 265 lbs 2 years ago. I'm 187 lbs today. How did I do it? I ate less, ate more times a day, and ate clean. If I drunk any type of soda it was diet, if I ate fast food, I ate chicken w/ a salad. I picked up cardio, and varied it weekly. Then my weight loss stopped for about 2 months. Time to re-organize the gameplan, and weight lifting came to mind, so here I am.

Best advice I can give, don't finish your plate. Eat a lot cleaner. Eat 6-8 times a day (not 6-8 meals.) Do HIIT. Lift hard, and take it serious. Don't weigh yourself everyday. Pick a day, and weigh yourself, and tape measure. Keep a journal, and find something that motivates you.

Best of luck.

Holto
09-14-2006, 08:01 PM
Whatever you do don't do what this guy did.

It killed his metabolism.


Ya im 6ft and weighed 295 and went to a crazy strict diet of 2 bowles of cereal one for breakfast one for lunch and one serving of whatever at dinner. Lost about 70 pounds in 3 monthes 85ish all together now, and i was also walking/jogging everyday.

bL33d: Take no offense bro you're one of the family now I'm just warning others.

Razoul
09-15-2006, 12:16 AM
Thanks for all the advice. Tape measure is another thing I need to do now to be able to judge my progress. It seems there is a fine line to walk when you want to lose weight fast. Go to far with the weight loss and you'll lose your metabolism aswell. Gotta keep that in mind. Thanks again.

Nicoman
09-15-2006, 02:39 AM
Thanks for all the advice. Tape measure is another thing I need to do now to be able to judge my progress. It seems there is a fine line to walk when you want to lose weight fast. Go to far with the weight loss and you'll lose your metabolism aswell. Gotta keep that in mind. Thanks again.

Do not starve yourself.....eat a lot of good food. Lots of protein and make sure you eat your veggies everyday. Once a week it is ok to cheat......you need a cheat day to stay grounded.

Everyone here has given you some very good advice.....I dropped about 60 pounds listening to the people in here and they all mean well. By the way I did NOT do any cardio at all, running for so many years just played havok on my knees. Funny thing about it is that when I use to run I would not loose any weight I always stayed the same. Soon as I started lifting heavy and eating lots of protein I lost tons of weight and it has stayed off.

Make sure you get a good protein supplement like Nitrean from At Large Nutrition, it tastes great the best of all protein supps IMHO. And no I do not work for them I just religiously use their stuff.

Take care hope to see some pics of you and your bud when you guys loose all the weight....

and remember you are not alone.

McIrish
09-15-2006, 03:07 AM
Raz, congrats on taking that first step to getting to be the new 'you' that you want. It's a huge one, and you're definitely on the right track. Listen to what the guys here say - they've got a TON of good advice. Lift heavy, eat well, drink tons of water, and enjoy the ride ;) I think what you'll like most is people *constantly* asking you some derivation of "Hey, are you working out?"

Al3X
09-15-2006, 08:34 AM
Also - the mirror is an important part. It could be the biggest judge.

Razoul
09-15-2006, 10:25 AM
The amount of replies is very suprising to me. Thanks for all the advice and encouragement. I have not used suppliments so Im looking around to see what and how much I should take. There are so many good threads here. Ill be reading for a while.

Al3X
09-15-2006, 11:03 AM
Indulge yourself to new information. There's a ton that can be found on this site. As for supplements do some research of the most common ones: whey protein, creatine, fish oil, flaxseed, multi-vitamin... But remember the three biggest things are Training, Nutrition, and Rest.

Holto
09-15-2006, 11:24 AM
The amount of replies is very suprising to me.

We love it when someone starts a thread and actually listens to the advice given. Sadly it doesn't happen as often as it should.

Razoul
09-15-2006, 11:29 AM
I can't see how anyone would pass up so much advice and info. Other forums I talk on are nowhere near as helpful. I think I will love it here. So much to read. So much to learn ^^

ddegroff
09-15-2006, 12:09 PM
You don't need supplements.

Get your diet down first. Eat whole healthy foods. Supplements are meant to supplement a balanced diet. Get that first!

Razoul
09-15-2006, 01:45 PM
Yeah first thing is getting my diet and workout set. Then I will add the supplements. Just getting all the research out the way so I will know what to get.

McIrish
09-16-2006, 07:28 AM
Yeah first thing is getting my diet and workout set. Then I will add the supplements. Just getting all the research out the way so I will know what to get.

I hate to parrot what everyone else has said (again) but vis-a-vis supplements, I'm a huge proponent of minimalism. Get 10 lbs of whey protein powder (somewhere in the range of $50-60, depending on shipping, brand, etc.) and a tub of creatine (which should run $20-25, but will last you FORRRRREVERRRRRR). The rest are really extraneous.

Can't wait to see some huge progress!! Get some pictures now so we can all :omg: later on.

DoUgL@S
09-16-2006, 10:10 AM
Yeah first thing is getting my diet and workout set. Then I will add the supplements. Just getting all the research out the way so I will know what to get.

I think that while you are getting the diet sorted out you want to get a few supplements. Fish oil caps are invaluable source of Omega 3 FAs, 10 per day. A quality protein powder is very important. It helps reach protein goals with almost no additional cals from carbs and fat, and you will need it for your Pre- or Post-work out shake. Buy some dextrose or maltodextrin for those shakes. A good multivitamin. These is my opinion are the bear minumum, and can be incorporated during your diet and workout design.

Holto
09-16-2006, 11:09 AM
In this community the list of supplements we use is getting very short.

Look into the tools you will need.

1) A scale
2) Various measuing cups and spoons
3) A george foreman grill if you don't have a barbecue

Think of it in terms of permanent life changes and don't try to do it all at once.

Start by making an absolute rule that you will eat a proper breakfast and bring water to work.

When this is ingrained into your lifestyle you won't feel right if you don't do it.

For example it's proven that hydrated individuals engage in more synaptic activity in their brains. When I am starting to get low on water I feel this to some extent. It's serves as an early reminder for me to up the water or lower the temperature in my environment if possible.

Al3X
09-16-2006, 11:09 AM
Fish oil caps are invaluable source of Omega 3 FAs, 10 per day.

Depends on how the ratio is for EPA/DHA. You should take at least 2g a day of the combined.

Al3X
09-16-2006, 11:12 AM
Look into the tools you will need.


4) Calipers/Tape Measure

mickyjune26
09-16-2006, 11:27 AM
Lastly.. That's a decent goal.. But ... I wouldn't set a weight....

The most powerful thing you can do now, besides reading the posts on this site and asking for help whenever you need it, is to learn how to enjoy the process of lifting and eating right.

I've suffered from going through spurts of eating right and lifting. My longest stretches of healthy lifestyle occured when I learned to enjoy the process.

Reading posts on WBB always inspired me. It ensured that I wasn't doing this alone.

You are lucky to have a friend who is going down this path with you. At the same time, if one of you decides to not continue down this journey, the other must refuse to be influenced. When a weak person partners with a strong person in all aspects of life, the stronger tends to become weaker instead of the weaker growing stronger.

consistantly remind yourself of all the things you love about your new lifestyle, and always remember, even write down, all the things you hate about your old lifestyle.

Until you learn to enjoy the process, you run the risk of quitting.

You can do this. You will do this.

PS - Have you started a WBB online journal?

Razoul
09-16-2006, 02:07 PM
Guess Ill be going to the store to grab a scale, more measuring cups, grill (gotta love george), multi vitamin (from gnc i guess unless there is a better one that can be easily found), protein powder, fish oil, and maybe some creatine( not sure about this yet because I havent read enough about it to feel comfortable using it). As far as water goes Im great. My friends always laugh at me because my last name is waters and that all I drink. I might drink a can of soda once a month and ice tea every now then. Just gotta kick my corona habit but that wont be very hard at all. Thanks for all the info. Oh yeah and the tape measure gotta get one of those. And no I have not started a journal. Today is going to be the first day I try using fitday for everything I eat today.

mickyjune26
09-16-2006, 03:14 PM
You're really going to rock it. We are all excited to see your progress.

in case, you're not aware, there are online journals in WBB:
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=18

Take care!

Al3X
09-16-2006, 07:17 PM
Razoul, also take "before" pictures so that you can base your transformation off of something. Don't be afraid to ask for advice on anything.

DoUgL@S
09-16-2006, 07:54 PM
Depends on how the ratio is for EPA/DHA. You should take at least 2g a day of the combined.

The costco brand gives me .3g EPA/DHA per cap, so I like to get about 3g combined.

Nicoman
09-16-2006, 08:05 PM
The most powerful thing you can do now, besides reading the posts on this site and asking for help whenever you need it, is to learn how to enjoy the process of lifting and eating right.

I've suffered from going through spurts of eating right and lifting. My longest stretches of healthy lifestyle occured when I learned to enjoy the process.

Reading posts on WBB always inspired me. It ensured that I wasn't doing this alone.

You are lucky to have a friend who is going down this path with you. At the same time, if one of you decides to not continue down this journey, the other must refuse to be influenced. When a weak person partners with a strong person in all aspects of life, the stronger tends to become weaker instead of the weaker growing stronger.

consistantly remind yourself of all the things you love about your new lifestyle, and always remember, even write down, all the things you hate about your old lifestyle.

Until you learn to enjoy the process, you run the risk of quitting.

You can do this. You will do this.

PS - Have you started a WBB online journal?

I like this post very thoughful.

Al3X
09-17-2006, 08:41 AM
The costco brand gives me .3g EPA/DHA per cap, so I like to get about 3g combined.

I didn't intend for it to see like I was going around you. Just saying that anyone should take at least a minimum of 2g fish oil. In your case, one cap is 3g, no sense in cutting it in half.

Built
09-17-2006, 11:44 AM
Al3X, he said .3g, not 3g.

Mine are .3g per capsule, too. I take 10 a day for 3g combined EPA/DHA. 2g combined EPA/DHA is a perfectly reasonable dose, too - I'm just old and like the extra for my joints. :)

bL33d
09-17-2006, 01:09 PM
Im taken 1000mg pills twice a day should i get stronger doses of fish oil? I just started taken them like 2 days ago.

Razoul
09-18-2006, 08:31 PM
So far this is what I have worked out to eat daily. Im planning on 5 meals. I missed lunch today so this is just 4 meals. Not sure what to eat at lunch still trying to work that part out. I am thinking about a rather nice sized lunch that is about 400-500 cals.

grams cals %total
Total: 1458
Fat: 46 410 29%
Sat: 10 87 6%
Poly: 13 121 9%
Mono: 19 170 12%
Carbs: 79 277 20%
Fiber: 10 0 0%
Protein: 177 709 51%
Alcohol: 0 0 0%

bL33d
09-18-2006, 10:03 PM
Well ill tell u from experiance u are gonna get in trouble for only eating 1400 calories that is way to low :scratch:

Im not sure what you eat on a regular basis calorie wise but you should prob try for atleast 2800 calories of good for you food. And after you see notice that your fat loss slows down drop ur cals little by little. Believe me at first just doing activities alone will make the fat fall off!! Eat good foods high in protein and keep ur cals at a good number and walk/jog, mow a yard just do stuff it comes off fast at first take advantage of that.

Holto
09-18-2006, 10:20 PM
Well ill tell u from experiance u are gonna get in trouble for only eating 1400 calories that is way to low :scratch:

Guys that are newer to lifting won't have the lean mass to help bump up their metabolisms.

A pound of fat burns like zero cals per day. A lb of lean mass can burn somewhere in the range of 15-50 per day.

Razoul
09-18-2006, 11:19 PM
Well im probably going to be at 2000-2200 usually. Grabed another snack that bumped me up to 1732. Eating 1730 cals of healthy food today I was only hungry at lunch which was the meal I skipped. To get up to 2800 I would have to get another meal in. Hotlo are you agreeing, disagreeing or just adding some useful info?

Holto
09-19-2006, 11:07 AM
Well im probably going to be at 2000-2200 usually. Grabed another snack that bumped me up to 1732. Eating 1730 cals of healthy food today I was only hungry at lunch which was the meal I skipped. To get up to 2800 I would have to get another meal in. Hotlo are you agreeing, disagreeing or just adding some useful info?

I think 2200 is low but it's all about how you feel.

If you feel full and energized you may be fine where you are. People that get really heavy very rarely have a fast metabolism. People that are new to lifting don't have the metabolic benefits of carrying 20-30 lbs of muscle that the average person isn't.

Overall your calories look really low but there are clearly reasons for that.

Just be consistent. If 2200 is too low then the fastest way to figure that out is to eat exactly 2200 for several days.

Razoul
09-19-2006, 12:16 PM
So im quessing ill start feeling like crap if it is to low correct. I will try to add another meal in since it seems that im not eating enough. That will make 6 meals a day. Well since my diet is almost in order I can start focusing more on getting my workout schedule in order.

Al3X
09-19-2006, 12:50 PM
Im taken 1000mg pills twice a day should i get stronger doses of fish oil? I just started taken them like 2 days ago.

A lot of the bottles state they contain 1k mg. Look on the nutrition panel, you'll see EPA/DHA add those together, and take the recommended dose (on mine they add up to 300.) BTW 1k mg equals 1g.

Holto
09-19-2006, 03:00 PM
So im quessing ill start feeling like crap if it is to low correct.

Low energy, high stress and no patience. Those are things to keep an eye on.

Razoul
09-19-2006, 07:52 PM
Well im on day 3 and so far im still feeling pretty normal. I need to go get a multivitamin to make up for some of the vitamins im not getting though.

Razoul
09-28-2006, 03:40 PM
I got a few more questions but first me and one of my other friends did deadlifts for the first time and all I can say is wow. It didn't look that hard but it worked the hell out of us when we gave it a go. We only did 130 pounds to get used to doing the exercise but it seems we wont be moving up to much from that maybe another 20 pounds max. On to the questions.

1. I got some protein powder and I read that dextrose is good for post workout shake. I am a diabetic and am a little worried about adding sugar to the shake. Now my diabetes is under control and I do not have it really bad so I dont have much trouble with it. Just wondering if anyone has any info or experience with it.

2. I was talking to my friend and he question why we were lifting heavy weight and low reps. Our understanding was that high weight was for building bigger muscles and since we want to get smaller it didnt seem logical but I was figuring that it wasnt that simple and that there was a little more to it. So any calirification on that aspect would be appreciated.

Built
09-28-2006, 03:47 PM
I got a few more questions but first me and one of my other friends did deadlifts for the first time and all I can say is wow. It didn't look that hard but it worked the hell out of us when we gave it a go. We only did 130 pounds to get used to doing the exercise but it seems we wont be moving up to much from that maybe another 20 pounds max. On to the questions.

1. I got some protein powder and I read that dextrose is good for post workout shake. I am a diabetic and am a little worried about adding sugar to the shake. Now my diabetes is under control and I do not have it really bad so I dont have much trouble with it. Just wondering if anyone has any info or experience with it.

I'd leave dex alone until you're a little closer to goal. Not sure what your preworkout nutrition is like, or if your diabetes is type I or type II




2. I was talking to my friend and he question why we were lifting heavy weight and low reps. Our understanding was that high weight was for building bigger muscles and since we want to get smaller it didnt seem logical but I was figuring that it wasnt that simple and that there was a little more to it. So any calirification on that aspect would be appreciated.

Low rep, strength training protects LBM while you're dropping weight. Higher rep range work is usually what you use for growth (hypertrophy) along with a caloric surplus. In a deficit, you won't be packing on a ton of muscle no matter what you do. Muscles are not made out of air.

That help?

Razoul
09-28-2006, 04:07 PM
Preworkout nutrition is nonexistent right now. I am still working on that part. Not sure what ill be eating but if I read correctly it should be mostly carbs. Postworkout will be a protien shake with a few straberries and a bannana thrown in. And I am pretty sure (99%) its type II. I take metaformin and I stay pretty stable. How im eating now I don't see many readings over 140.

Built
09-28-2006, 05:01 PM
Preworkout nutrition is nonexistent right now. I am still working on that part. Not sure what ill be eating but if I read correctly it should be mostly carbs. Postworkout will be a protien shake with a few straberries and a bannana thrown in. And I am pretty sure (99%) its type II. I take metaformin and I stay pretty stable. How im eating now I don't see many readings over 140.

Metformin = type II diabetes. I was on Metformin for IR a few years back.

Track your diet on www.fitday.com and post up your average for a week. I want to see what you're eating now.

Preworkout nutrition could be protein and carb. I usually do oats with eggwhites and cottage cheese (protein waffle, recipe posted on this board).

Don't do the fruit and whey for post workout - wrong kind of carbs for post workout. Stick to another solid protein and carb meal, then go back to lower carb with lots of veggies and protein for the rest of your meals. I personally wouldn't bother with shakes at all right now. Wait until you're in the high teens bodyfat before you worry about that.

Read the red diet link in my sig.

Razoul
09-28-2006, 07:11 PM
No shakes till the high teens >< thats a long way away. My nitrean just came in yesterday too.

My cals are a little lower than I wanted them and I skipped a good bit of the mid day snacks which would have upped my protein since I usually eat a can of tuna. I still need to get more veggies into my meals. So far the lettuce on my chiken sandwich and the peas or some other veggie I have with dinner are the only ones Im getting.

Well anyway this is from the last week

Average Calories
grams cals %total
Total: 2080
Fat: 77 692 34%
Sat: 21 190 9%
Poly: 18 159 8%
Mono: 31 281 14%
Carbs: 146 538 27%
Fiber: 11 0 0%
Protein: 180 721 36%
Alcohol: 8 57 3%

McIrish
09-30-2006, 06:44 AM
Raz, I'm a huge fan of spinach/bell peppers for getting all kinds of nutritious greenery into the diet. You can easily replace lettuce in salads with spinach/arugula lettuce and voila, you're actually getting something healthy rather than something nearly devoid of nutrition. Throw some olive oil on top and then a grilled chicken breast and maybe some avocado and you're in business. There's a bagillion and one recipes that health-conscious people can eat that still taste FANTASTIC, IMHO.

Razoul
10-05-2006, 02:03 AM
Hmmm bell peppers....I hadnt really thought about those I love eating them. I will definitely get those into my diet. I love spinach but sometimes it doesnt really play nice in my stomach so I eat them sparringly. I have to do the same thing with okra.

So far all the exercises in WWB1 are going well except for straight leg deadlift. It supposed to be hamstring but I feel it more in the back and abs so I'm just wondering if im doing something wrong and what I need to do to fix it.

My friends girlfriend want to tag along on the workouts but is worried that she shouldnt be doing the same things as us. So I just want to know if she is worrying for nothing or does she have a point?

Built: Where the fitday info I posted what you wanted to see?

ddegroff
10-05-2006, 09:25 AM
The gf can do all the same exercises as you, just less weight.

As far as your form on straight leg dead lifts, do a search, that should yield a lot of good stuff. I know Built has a bunch of good video's. i just dont have a link for you at this point.

Davidelmo
10-05-2006, 11:05 AM
Keep up the good work. Your diet looks pretty solid. You're following WBB1 and using fitday = you're off to a better start than 90% of people who try to lose weight!!

Built
10-05-2006, 11:35 AM
Razoul

This looks minimally suffient. If you're comfortable, leave it alone. Make sure to have a cheat day every few weeks on these calories - for you, they're a little low.

Total: 2080
Fat: 77 692 34%
Sat: 21 190 9%
Poly: 18 159 8%
Mono: 31 281 14%
Carbs: 146 538 27%
Fiber: 11 0 0%
Protein: 180 721 36%
Alcohol: 8 57 3%

Women and men train the same - that being said, start females a LOT lighter than you'd start a guy the same weight. I have an article coming out oh, what time is it? Issue three of Get Built should be up sometime today, and it deals with this issue. Read it when it comes out.

Look up exercises here - there are excellent videos on this site: http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/videos/video_index.htm

WBBIRL
10-05-2006, 12:32 PM
Im just starting to get back into cutting again, although im about an inch or two shorter then you folks and I weigh 310 pounds.

Your calories do look quite a bit low, but if your happy with them and you can function without your daily activites being hindered then thats fine I guess. I would suggest you dont have a free meal for 5-6 weeks after these new lifestyles have become more of a habit, that way you wont be tempted to stuff your face with all the stuff you shouldnt be eating in large quantities.

When your ready for a free meal, you need to really understand what a free meal is. Its not a ticket to a contest where you see how much you can shove down your throat. You simple sprinkle in the things you have to cut back on. For me that would be things like pizza, chicken wings (deep fried) and junk food.

More over, at this point you should really be thinking calories in vs calories out. A calorie is a calorie so to speak, no matter where it comes from.. but you will be able to eat a lot more food if the majority of the calories come from proteins. Thats where you get into calorie density, which at this point neither you nor I have to worry about that.

So if your happy on 2000-2500 a day then thats fine, after 5-6 weeks start throwing in a free meal every week and on that day try to get your calories around 3500+. This way your body doesnt think your starving to death.

Every 4 months you should probably take a week off your diet. Which does not mean eating 5,000 calories a day for a week. A pre determined diet break will allow your body to replenish its glyocgen stores completely and allow your metabolism to adjust to a higher calorie range, kicking your weight loss back into full swing once you start back up.

Which brings me on to another good point. You do not want to lose weight, you want to lose fat. Weightloss is simple, very simple... just consume less calories then you burn and you'll lose weight, granted most of it muscle. By keeping at a modest calorie deficit and lifting heavy with the proper nutrition you can force your body to hold on to a greater amount of LBM and shed that fat instead.

On supplements....

You dont really need them, and unless the protein is a move conveient way of getting good calories say at work or for whatever reason then by all means use them. If you like to cook, and your lunch at work isnt a problem then just go ahead and prepare foods like chicken, tuna, lean steaks, turkey and those kinds of things for your meals. Things like cottage cheese and natural peanut butter, fish, lean pork, soybeans and peanuts are good sources of protein.

Keep your protein intake high, for you I would recommend atleast 200g a day. Lift heavy and atleast do you 3 major compound lifts being benchpress, squat and deadlift. Heavy is a relative term also, heavy for you may be 130 pounds while heavy for another person may be 500 pounds. Just lift heavy, 1-6 rep range. I personally like 5x5, but usually end up doing 10-8-6, with 3x10 on accesory lifts.

You two can be motivation for one another, challenege each other and keep one another honest. I was able to do much more cardio during football season because the rest of the team pushes you, and you work hard because you know your not the only one in this endevor.

Also I'd say screw the scale for a while, if its been a while since either of you have lifted you will probably end up putting on a good bit of lean muscle mass at first. It wouldnt suprise me if your weight loss for the first month or so was very slow due to that fact, so hold off on takeing the scale to heart for a while... maybe 2 months.

The first 3 weeks will be the hardest, and if you can beat those first 3 weeks you should be well on your way.



Im sure most of this has been said already, but just summing it all up for you. I'll be tracking your progress

Built
10-05-2006, 12:48 PM
Nice post!

Razoul
10-05-2006, 02:20 PM
Wow thanks for all the great replies. I have alot more info to dig through now.

ddegroff: As for the girlfriend thats what I thought but since I am new to this I wanted to get a answer from people that know more about it. And as for the exercise I have found a few good vids and from what I see I am doing it right. I will continue looking at them to see if I missed something and see how it feels next week when I do it again.

Davidelmo: Thanks for the encouragement. Im so glad I found this site so that I could get on the right track.

Built: I am comfortable so far I just need to remember to eat as often as Im supposed to so I dont get cravings for more convient food that Im not supposed to be eating. I will start to add in cheat days once I get used to my new eating routine. I will definitely read that article and also show it to her as well.

Now for the big one
WBBIRL: I am pretty happy with my new lifestyle especially the diet. I get to eat my favorite stuff like salmon, tuna, and just fish in general. I still have a little diet tweaking to do but so far Im pretty good on the diet front. I already decided that my cheat meal will most likely be on the weekends so I can go hang out with my friends without worrying so much about what I will be eating while I am there. Ill keep in mind about going overboard though. I had not thought about the week off of the diet in 4 months. I will do a bit more reading and find out more about it but it sounds like a good idea to me. We are trying to lose as much fat as possible without losing to much muscle. If I can keep my legs as strong as they are now but lose all the weight I want to lose my legs will be monsters. As for my routine I feel it working but Im not as sore the next day as I was when I was doing a different workout. Maybe thats a good thing or maybe I need to push a bit harder we shall see in the coming weeks. Maybe add another set in. So far my friend and I are keeping each other honest. We are starting to feel a bit different only after 2 weeks....well it will be two weeks friday. We can feel our backs alot more but that may be just a bit of soreness. Either way we like it. We look forward to deadlift day. Next weigh in wont be for a while. We want to see a decent drop until then we will keep each other motivated.

Thanks again everyone for your post and encouragement.

ddegroff
10-05-2006, 02:30 PM
if your form is on par then your lower back may be weak. Any form of deads will make it stronger.

Keep up the good work!

WBBIRL
10-05-2006, 03:36 PM
You dont need to get DOMS to make progress...

My bench went from 185-335 with very little to no DOMS, alot of my strength has come without DOMS. Only now that im starting to climb into the higher weights do I get DOMS.

Razoul
10-05-2006, 10:30 PM
When ever I use to work out I would get alot more sore than I am no. Maybe it was just a bad routine or just overworking the muscles.

ddegroff
10-06-2006, 12:18 AM
Soreness really isn't an indication of anything more than your sore.

Moat likely your muscles are use to the work your doing.

WBBIRL
10-14-2006, 09:41 PM
Update?

Razoul
10-15-2006, 02:38 AM
Alright a update. So far my diet has been going pretty well with a few slip ups when going out with friends. Trying to stay away from the large amounts of alcohol is the hardest part.....damn my drinking buddies damn them all. As of last week 10 pounds have bite the dust. Once I get HITT worked in hopefully I can get even more results. Me and one of my other friends are currently enjoying what we are guessing are newbie gains. particularly in the back area there is finally somethings solid back there. The only day we are actually sore is leg day....damn squats. We had a bit of fun messing around with the leg press machine. Almost got back up to 16 plates but decided to wait til leg day. A few more of my friends seem to be getting intrested in joining in aswell.

Oh yeah built that article was very very helpful.

IZich
10-15-2006, 08:54 PM
Raz, glad to hear that. Keep up your good work; I and the entire forum are rooting for you and I have faith that you can do it if you persist and be patient. :D

Built
10-15-2006, 08:57 PM
Glad that helped Razoul. :)

Re HIIT - not until you're 20 lbs from goal, okay? It's REALLY too much while you're still carrying a significant amount of bodyfat.

Okay?

Razoul
10-16-2006, 12:12 AM
Thanks for the help and support. I figured that if i did hitt on a elliptical it would take alot of the stress of my joints and that I might be able to handle it. Oh and on a side note since starting getting in shape my blood sugar levels have lowered quite a bit. I stay under 100 almost all day. At this rate by the time I get to where I want to be I wont need and medication at all ^^

Built
10-16-2006, 02:44 AM
Not yet on the HIIT. Honest!

And you're right - you ought to be able to ditch the Metformin. I did. :)

Razoul
10-16-2006, 05:41 PM
I want to add some sort of cardio. I guess Ill just do normal cardio then. 30 min every other day should be pretty good.

Built
10-16-2006, 05:45 PM
Or do it post workout for 20 minutes, fast incline walk is good.

Razoul
10-19-2006, 05:52 PM
I think I am getting addicted to the gym. If Im not there Im thinking about it or doing some more research on form and other routines. I look forward to going to the gym and as soon as im done I get anxious for the next workout day but rather disappointed that I have rest day to get through before I can go back. Although me and my buddy Carlos(280 lbs) cant really see impovment we can feel it and know we are getting stronger. My back doesnt really like me slouching anymore so I have to sit with good posture now. Okay now on to the questions.

About how long should you stay on WBB1? It says to stay on it as long as you are getting results but just wondering if it would be a good idea to move onto another one after about 4 months. I read somewhere that its not a good idea to be constantly switching so im just wondering what other people think.

If you workout without doing the diet side of things what kind of results will you get? Will you slowly start switching out fat for more muscle but stay around the same weight or what?

I eat about 6-14 oz. of salmon a day depending on if I eat it twice or not. Does this effect how much fish oil i should be taking or should I just keep taking the same amount regardless of how much salmon I eat? I haven't actually started taking fish oil yet but just wondering for when I do start.

Built
10-19-2006, 05:54 PM
Read issue 1 of get built - there's a table with food values of omega 3.

Razoul
10-20-2006, 04:02 PM
Thanks again built. I should just read everything you have written before I ask anything.

Let see I did my second weigh in today and lost 2 pounds in 2 weeks. First 2 weeks was 10 pounds. First weigh in may have been because of water weight and I hope todays weight is because of some added muscle. Im eating 2200 cals a day on average. I need to get my metabolism going alot faster. I am doing WBB1 and I am adding in cardio 20 minutes 3 days a week although I wont see the effects of the cardio till next weigh in. Any idea how to get things going a bit faster?

Usual meals:

Breakfast: 5 egg whites, 1 whole egg, 6oz salmon, 2 slices wheat bread
Snack: can of tuna with hot sauce
Lunch: 7 oz chicken breast, 1 slice or wheat bread
Snack: can of tuna with hot sauce
Dinner: 7oz chiken breast, 2-3 cups broccoli, 2 Tbsp olive oil
Sometimes a little yogurt before bed

Any tweaks, advice and opinions would be appreciated.

Built
10-20-2006, 04:45 PM
More fruit and veggies, less bread.

:)

Nice work on your continuing losses!

Razoul
10-20-2006, 04:50 PM
I really like having bread for breakfast so i can cut that to one slice instead of two and maybe a chicken salad for lunch with some apples thrown in through out the day. That sound any better or do i need more veggies?

Built
10-20-2006, 05:06 PM
I understand - I used to bake my own bread <cries> - it was very hard to let that one go.

An apple, some berries <- better, not bad ideas. Maybe some steamed broccoli (with a pat of butter) with your breakfast?

Razoul
10-20-2006, 09:28 PM
Any other good ideas to add in? A soon as I get everything I need I will be adding the protein waffle on my workout days for my pre work out meal.

Built
10-20-2006, 10:06 PM
You're doing great, really.

Start with the extra produce. Always eat your veggies with a little bit of fat. Helps your body get the nutrients from them.

Razoul
10-31-2006, 01:12 AM
Small update. Started a online journal today. So far It is just my routine up to now. I will be checking weight again friday hopefully I will have more than 2 lbs to show for my effort this time.

Built
10-31-2006, 01:47 AM
Good. It's about time.

:)

Razoul
10-31-2006, 01:43 PM
I tried to get a link under my post that goes to it but so far I havent figured that part out yet. there it goes figured it out.

Unreal
10-31-2006, 02:33 PM
It works. If you aren't down 2lbs, don't get discourgaged. I would sometimes go weeks without the scale moving then all the sudden it would be 8-10lbs lighter.

Razoul
10-31-2006, 02:57 PM
I wont actually get discouraged just disappointed really. I want to get to my goal as soon as posible and at 4 pounds a month it would take forever.

McIrish
11-01-2006, 08:55 AM
That "dinner" meal could *easily* turn into a tasty spinach/veggie salad, if you ever get bored with plain chicken (which you most likely will... I think everyone on here has thirty different ways to prepare plain chicken to make it palatable). Spinach is the way to go for a salad, too - it beats the pants off of iceberg for nutrients. Toss in some carrots/beets/avocado/tomato/whatever is handy and you're good to go!

Razoul
11-04-2006, 04:38 PM
Update 9 more pounds are gone. So everything is going fine. I guess Ill just update my journal now.

Built
11-04-2006, 05:09 PM
That's GREAT!

deeder
11-05-2006, 02:17 PM
Nice work Razoul! What are you at now for weight?

Razoul
11-05-2006, 03:54 PM
365 Pounds. Still far away from my goal but it will take time. I didnt get this way in a few months and it will take me a while to reverse it. I can feel alot more solid mass underneath though. Cant wait until I can actually see the muscle that im building. Unexpected expense though is I have to buy some new belts :D Didnt think that would happen so soon.

Razoul
11-06-2006, 04:22 PM
Im thinking about try Romanian Deadlifts. In WBB1 would that replace SLDL or Leg Curls or does it matter?

WBBIRL
11-06-2006, 04:28 PM
No need to really get fancy at this point, but I would think they replace SLDL's.

Great progress bro, good to see you keep at it. And thats the best attitude you can have, you didnt get that way overnight and you wont fix it overnight either.

Razoul
11-06-2006, 04:32 PM
The reason behind the change is i dont like either leg curls or the sldl. Leg curls are decent but I still dont think ive got the sldl down right. I want to feel it more in my legs than I am right now. Back still fells like its getting the most work. I cant seem to get it to hit where its supposed to hit. I keep watching vids and such but i guess im still missing something.

betastas
11-06-2006, 08:19 PM
365 Pounds. Still far away from my goal but it will take time. I didnt get this way in a few months and it will take me a while to reverse it. I can feel alot more solid mass underneath though. Cant wait until I can actually see the muscle that im building. Unexpected expense though is I have to buy some new belts :D Didnt think that would happen so soon.

That's the most important thing to know about the human body.

I am glad that your fat loss is going well, keep up the great work. You seem to be well into it now, just keep at it and you'll be where you want to be in no time.

Razoul
11-08-2006, 11:33 PM
Me and my two workout partners are about to give up on SLD L:bang: We must be all doing it wrong. We barely feel it in our legs but our lower backs feel like they are doing almost all the work. We are also having a bit of trouble with hack sqauts aswell although we are closer to getting those to work correctly. Tips on getting the form right and good replacement advice would be greatly appreciated. Also this was the first week of squats that go below parallel. The bottom is proving to be very rough indeed. I will be doing a bit of reading to see if I should be doing something differently when im at the bottom to get more power. When I get that low it feels like my legs are gone >.> Any suggestions would help here aswell. All of these problems plus a few others made the workout feel kinda crappy except for the squating part.

WBBIRL
11-08-2006, 11:40 PM
SLDL's are supposed to work the hammies and the lower back... not so much the quads. If you want to hit up the quads, do some leg extentions or some full squats.

Keep at er big guy!

Razoul
11-08-2006, 11:43 PM
Thats our problem we are not feeling it in the hamstring. Feels like it should be on back day instead of leg day. It would be perfect if we were trying to hit the lower back though.

Razoul
11-16-2006, 03:53 PM
I get far more comments here than on my journal so I guess ill post this here aswell.

Leg day is the bain of my existence. I am not getting a good workout no matter what I do. Squats are going well. Leg curls are good and hack squats ,while awkward, are still decent although i think im not feeling those enough either. Im just not feeling like I have blasted my legs like i think I should. SLDL are almost a total failure. I got the focus off my back but i still dont feel it in my legs all that much at all. Leg day feels like a total waste of time so far. I must be overlooking some detail in form that is killing the effectiveness of the exercise. Leg day need some serious At least my other days are doing great. I guess ill figure leg out sooner or later. Weight check friday hope my diet slip ups didnt hurt the results to bad.

I was thinking about trying the high placement leg press. I will not give up on rdls and sldls though. I am determined to get those to work right.

WildJames
11-17-2006, 09:29 PM
I love leg day. SLDL's worked great for me right off the start. Try the Smith machine if you're having trouble, it helps with form. Just bend at the hips only, not your back. It's almost the same as stretching down and touching your toes, which stretches your hamstrings. Just do the same thing with a barbell in your hands, keeping your head up and chest out and butt back. If you need to stretch down further to get a good workout stand on a small box or something stable while you do it. I do everything on WBB1 leg day on the Smith machine except leg curls and standing calf raises until I get better at form. My legs are totally blasted from yesterday. Hope that helps.

Built
11-18-2006, 01:11 AM
NO NO NO please don't do your deads with a Smith! And don't stand on a box - I have yet to see someone do a proper SLDL/RDL all the way to the floor while keeping the arch in their back. If you go lower than you should, you lose that arch. That's how you know when to stop.

Keep the Oly bar close to your body, bend your knees a bit, lean your ass BACK, look UP, strong arch in your back. Weight should go through your heels. Your toes should be able to come off the floor without changing your balance point. Barbell travels directly along your body up and down.

Like this: http://www.uwlax.edu/strengthcenter/videos/exercise%20videos%20plus/rdl.mpg

Razoul
11-18-2006, 04:04 AM
Thanks a ton. I finally got them working right. I arched my back more and kinda raised my ass a bit and man is that a good strech in the hamstring. I guess im doing more of a rdl now but whatever. It works and Im happy. All I got to get now is the hack squat a little better and touch up my squat to get more power at the bottom and all will be good on leg day. Dropped another 3 pounds this weigh in. Can anybody think of a reason i keep going back and forth with the amount of weight lost. Its looking like i go from losing 10 pounds to 2 to 10 and back to 2 every weigh in. Any advice that would smooth out the weight lose to 10 each time would be great although im happy with whatever i can lose as long as it something.

Oh and on a side note I tried out the arnold press and man is that a killer. Shoulders were burning like hell.

BLewis
11-18-2006, 12:54 PM
Raz, what does your current daily diet look like?

Razoul
11-18-2006, 01:18 PM
Breakfast: 5 egg whites 1 whole egg 6oz salmon
Snack: Can of tuna with hot sauce
Lunch: baked sweet potato 2 cups brocolie 6-7oz chiken breast 1 Tbsp Butter
Dinner:chicken salad 6-7 oz chicken breast Plate full of baby spinach
Another can of tuna if im hungry

Total: 2041
Fat: 77 691 35%
Sat: 24 220 11%
Poly: 12 105 5%
Mono: 28 256 13%
Carbs: 73 238 12%
Fiber: 13 0 0%
Protein: 259 1036 53%

deeder
11-18-2006, 02:23 PM
Holy Crap! That's about the same as I was cutting on last year and I was sitting at 185lbs when I started my cut!

You must be starving! Are you following any specific diet or just aiming for around 2000cals a day?

Razoul
11-18-2006, 06:59 PM
I eat the same thing everyday with the occasional change up. So far im not really hungry unless i skip a meal. And it will be a while before I get tired of the meals because its all stuff that I love to eat but never got to eat it that much before i started this diet. i have been shooting for around 2200-2500 but I almost always fall short except on workout days. On workout days I add a shake and some gatorade that bumps up the total by about 300-400 cals.

WildJames
11-18-2006, 10:59 PM
What's wrong with doing sldl's on a smith?

Built
11-19-2006, 03:41 PM
Same thing that's wrong with using machines for any heavy compound - you force the body to travel in a fixed plane of movement. Add to this your suggestion of doing them on a platform, and you get an arched spine at the bottom, wiith what I can only imagine as a series of weird shear forces hitting you at various points through the lift.

Razoul
11-24-2006, 12:20 AM
I saw the the new product nitor is coming out which got me thinking about fat loss pills in general. I am curently doing some research on them and for those who have been reading this thread do you think it would be a good idea to try one of these out? And if so what kinda results could I expect if I keep everything else the same? If it its not going to make a a decent difference then ill save my cash.