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Nosaj
10-04-2006, 09:18 AM
Anyone got any good links on cutting & dropping cals too fast? I'm mostly interested in reading on the effects of loss of LBM due to survival instincts, I swear I've read about it tons of times before but I suck at using the search feature.

I want to know give or take what constitutes as "starving" yourself, and basically ready up on cutting strategies to retain as much LBM as possible. Thanks.

DoUgL@S
10-04-2006, 02:47 PM
You can starve yourself and keep most if not al your LBM using something like PMSF, where you eak 1.5g P/lb bw and some EFA's and that's it. Lyle's board (www.bodyrecomposition.com) has lots of usefull info on it.

Vapour Trails
10-04-2006, 03:08 PM
Your body will adjust to retain it's muscle quite well even when cals are very low as long as nitrogen intake is high. If you are ketogenic for several days, the brain shifts toward more ketone burning and less glucose burning (althought it always uses a certain quantity) and this saves some tissue protein from being converted to glucose.

dtshen
10-05-2006, 09:58 AM
so i can retain my muscle on a cut if i do this??

weight : 210 lbs
protein required 210*1.5 = 315 g protein

lets say i take 12 scoops of protein a day? 12* 25 = 300g protein
12 scoops at 100 calories each = 1200 calories ?

i can do this and retain my muscle?

Mr. D
10-05-2006, 12:31 PM
you have zero fat in that diet. fat is definitely needed to maintain hormone levels and other brain functions.

you will be constantly hungry just taking whey shakes.

RedSpikeyThing
10-05-2006, 01:47 PM
you have zero fat in that diet. fat is definitely needed to maintain hormone levels and other brain functions.

you will be constantly hungry just taking whey shakes.

That is the hell of PSMF.

Vapour Trails
10-05-2006, 03:20 PM
so i can retain my muscle on a cut if i do this??

weight : 210 lbs
protein required 210*1.5 = 315 g protein

lets say i take 12 scoops of protein a day? 12* 25 = 300g protein
12 scoops at 100 calories each = 1200 calories ?

i can do this and retain my muscle?

You need fish oil too. 6g a day or so.
You will retain your muscle.
And don't use whey, use meat or casein.

Nosaj http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=86222
It answers the questions you ask

Nosaj
10-05-2006, 08:50 PM
I haven't responded but I have been doing a lot of reading of Lyle McDonald's writing. It's really interesting and I'm finding it very helpful.

dav619
10-06-2006, 11:33 AM
Just finished a PSMF myself - I kept my protein levels high and took in less than 1000 calories a day almost consistently for a about 6 weeks.

The result - First few days were very tough, confusion, tiredness and a general feeling of "not being right". Once my body got used to its ketogetic state (took about a week) I felt alot better.

Having said this you will have zero energy. You will be fine for most everyday things but don't expect to complete a full workout or even think about trying running. As an example one time I did a set of pushups and after 10 my arms pretty much gave up on me. It can be that bad when your glycogen depleted.

Physically i lost ALOT of weight. I would say in the most part this was fat but not being particularly big my body didn't have that much muscle to lose. In total i'm down about 35lbs since 12 weeks ago and by far the most weight loss was during the PSMF.

Stumprrp
10-06-2006, 11:37 AM
35 lbs in 3 months is great! give me hope i can lose 20 in 2.

ArchAngel777
10-06-2006, 01:11 PM
In total i'm down about 35lbs since 12 weeks ago and by far the most weight loss was during the PSMF.

Some of the weight lost in PSMF is deceptive. At least 8 pounds of it is less water from eating no carbohydrates. Even eating 150 to 200 carbs a day will cause much of that weight gain to come back. When doing PSMF, take your total weight lost and subtract 8 from it. That will probably give you a more accurate rendering of what was really lost in terms of tissue. From that point on, you will have to determine whether you lost muscle, or fat. PSMF can be a terrific way to lose fat, but just keep in mind that a lot of weight comes from water and 0 to very little glycogen.