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Bamm
10-04-2006, 07:15 PM
With wrestling season coming up soon and i have a few problems. Beleave this or not im a pretty good wrestler on the ground if i can usally survive the 1st period i will win the match.

I have a horrible shot anyone know why this could be? I've worked on it for 2 years im wondering if theres anyway possibly this could be from tight muscles in my back/legs? when i go down i have a problem coming back up when i pull my neck back i feel my neck/back pull.

Anyone ever have this problem wrestling or know someone who did? What streches would be good for this?

Anthony
10-05-2006, 05:14 AM
Generally speaking, you should incorporate some mobility drills. I just got a DVD by Eric Cressey and Mike Robertson titled "Magnificent Mobility" ... excellent drills that are easy to learn and apply.

But without more detailed info on your movement and what muscles you feel are affected, it's hard to say what drills would best address your problem.

Dinosaur
10-05-2006, 07:09 AM
With wrestling season coming up soon and i have a few problems. Beleave this or not im a pretty good wrestler on the ground if i can usally survive the 1st period i will win the match.

I have a horrible shot anyone know why this could be? I've worked on it for 2 years im wondering if theres anyway possibly this could be from tight muscles in my back/legs? when i go down i have a problem coming back up when i pull my neck back i feel my neck/back pull.

Anyone ever have this problem wrestling or know someone who did? What streches would be good for this?

Best answer? Have your coach watch you do it a couple times and see what kind of critique he can give you.

bill
10-05-2006, 08:07 AM
Watch some takedown videos. It sounds like your talking about a double leg or single.
remember you have to step in deep, and through your opponent
lift them off the mat, (don't pull back as you stated)
there are many different takedowns, maybe try working some trips.
Look at Cael Sanderson

Isaac Wilkins
10-05-2006, 03:28 PM
Where are you running into problems with your takedowns? Give us some more information.

Here are two things that I see over and over again, particularly at lower levels of wrestling. These aren't physique-related, but are even more important.

Shoot like you mean it. If you see an opening to take a shot, take it and finish it. Learn to set up opponents, create openings, and then hit it. Too often I see guys half-ass a shot and get pancaked. I've seen very good wrestlers end up in trouble against an inexperienced but very aggressive shooter who gets deep.

Learn to shoot and do all wrestling moves left-handed. At least learn a good single leg and a switch left-handed. Most people are right-handed. Most spend almost NO time working on their left attacks because it feels awkward. Spend all the time you can on your left side attacks. Most lower-level opponents will be VERY off balance if you can consistently hit them well from the off side. It'll take you some work, but ten minutes every day at practice will take you so much further you'll be amazed.

Do what Dinosaur recommended. Have your coach or a good coach somewhere look at what you're doing. We can recommend how to get you in better shape but I bet it's a technique issue and somebody watching you could really help you out.

emceepal
10-05-2006, 06:53 PM
atleast you can shoot, i can't (heavyweight)

Isaac Wilkins
10-05-2006, 07:08 PM
atleast you can shoot, i can't (heavyweight)

Why not? A good shooting heavyweight is devastating.

If you're too heavy to be a good shooter then work on your mobility, speed, lose some fat, and refine your technique. Most heavyweights at the high school level (and even at weaker colleges) want to just tie up and hang out. Look at elite level heavyweights, though. They can all shoot and they do. Start learning young.

Natetaco
10-05-2006, 08:22 PM
Where are you running into problems with your takedowns? Give us some more information.

Here are two things that I see over and over again, particularly at lower levels of wrestling. These aren't physique-related, but are even more important.

Shoot like you mean it. If you see an opening to take a shot, take it and finish it. Learn to set up opponents, create openings, and then hit it. Too often I see guys half-ass a shot and get pancaked. I've seen very good wrestlers end up in trouble against an inexperienced but very aggressive shooter who gets deep.

Learn to shoot and do all wrestling moves left-handed. At least learn a good single leg and a switch left-handed. Most people are right-handed. Most spend almost NO time working on their left attacks because it feels awkward. Spend all the time you can on your left side attacks. Most lower-level opponents will be VERY off balance if you can consistently hit them well from the off side. It'll take you some work, but ten minutes every day at practice will take you so much further you'll be amazed.

Do what Dinosaur recommended. Have your coach or a good coach somewhere look at what you're doing. We can recommend how to get you in better shape but I bet it's a technique issue and somebody watching you could really help you out.


this is excellent advice. And on the heavyweight not being able to take a shot thats rediculous. In the NC state championships in the final HW match the winner took the shot, pinned him right there. Everyone can take shots you just have to practice and ask your superiors for advice.

MetalMilitia
10-08-2006, 02:23 PM
Anyone ever have this problem wrestling or know someone who did? What streches would be good for this?

Back in the day when I wrestled I had the same problem. Practice practice practice....but practice perfect. What helped me the most was shooting slow in practice at first. Painfully slow, over and over. Make it so it's muscle memory...remember, slow IS fast when you're first learning.

Then once you have the mechanics down for a leg takedown work on the quickness. Shooting faster than hell is for nothing if it's sloppy.

I always had trouble with it though....but I got REAL good at upperbody takedowns and countering leg takedowns.

But everyone's right...you need good shooting skills.

MetalMilitia
10-08-2006, 02:24 PM
this is excellent advice. And on the heavyweight not being able to take a shot thats rediculous. In the NC state championships in the final HW match the winner took the shot, pinned him right there. Everyone can take shots you just have to practice and ask your superiors for advice.

It's what cost our heavyweight placing in the Ohio State tourney....he came across some big boys that could shoot their asses off.

Bamm
10-08-2006, 06:45 PM
alright thanks a lot guys i will try and work on doing them slower i was talking to our coach keith massey you might actually know him hes coached wrestling at a national level and he said i should also work on streching out my legs and getting a lot more flexible.

emceepal
10-08-2006, 07:08 PM
Why not? A good shooting heavyweight is devastating.

If you're too heavy to be a good shooter then work on your mobility, speed, lose some fat, and refine your technique. Most heavyweights at the high school level (and even at weaker colleges) want to just tie up and hang out. Look at elite level heavyweights, though. They can all shoot and they do. Start learning young.

yeah, last year i was horrible at it, but i'll definetly work at it this year

mooseusaf
10-13-2006, 12:44 AM
i was a former wrestler (2x all state in nc 3A). i wrestled for three years and my coach was bad a$$. my coach made us do a three man shot drill. number each person in ur group and for the first min #1 will shoot #2 and then #3 back to back until times up and then #2 shoots #1 and #3 and then the same for #3. youve been wrestlin for 2 years now so you should know every shot. after we got done with our first run we drilled them but start off slow, remember hand and head placement. i hate gettin my lip or nose busted with a cross face. work angles, dont shoot straight in. also work on shoot to reshoot. most of the time people get out of position when they sprawl. i miss the good ole days of wrestlin. i'll be tryin out for the air force wrestling team next year. search on youtube, you can find some wrestling demonstrations.

Hazerboy
10-16-2006, 12:13 AM
What usually happens when you take a bad shot? Does your head get pushed to the mat? Does he beat you with a sprawl? Does your nose get ripped off in a crossface? Does he get an easy underhook/headlock on you?

This is all very important - it shows what excactly your weakness is in the shot. You could be shooting with your head down, your face could be off his hip, etc etc.

"when i go down i have a problem coming back up when i pull my neck back i feel my neck/back pull."

This is kind of a vague description. What do you mean "when you go down?" What do you mean when you come back up you pull your neck? you mean you have a hard time on your finish? Of course you'll feel you're neck/back pull when you pull your neck, your neck is moving. You'll have to be more specific with this...

My best advice would be to drill drill drill drill. Drill setups, drill your shot, drill finishes, drill everything together. Get with a partner before/after practice and just keep drilling. SLowly increase your speed as you get better. Then try it in a match/during live wrestling; if you're seeing something wrong as you're (hopefully) watching the film later, then fix it while you're drilling.

I'm only an average wrestler but I've always had an excellent shot; even if the other wrestler is awesome and I get my ass kicked, I'll ALWAYS get at least two or three takedowns a match. Here is some general advice that may/may not help your situation:

Don't step when you take a shot to get penatration - this wastes time, you should be close enough anyways. Instead plant your back foot and push off of that for power. (You may have to see this to understand it, if you're real used to stepping though then just do it).
Have a good set up. Don't just dive in there - you must have a good set up, no matter how good you are.
HEAD UP on your finishes. Find one or two finishes you like and drill them over and over. If you like double legs, I wouldn't recommend lifting - its waste of energy and its very, very difficult to do against a good wrestler. Rarely will you ever see somebody lifted/slammed to the mat in college either, about everyone just turns the corner. Once I learned how to just cut the corner and drive across, instead of lifting, my takedown percentage got a lot better.

Some of this stuff may seem a little strange -- and it was to me too -- but I got it all from either OSU's wrestling camp (which, by the way, were national champs when i went) or MU's wrestling camp (ironicly a better camp), and if you implement it correctly it works great.

MetalMilitia
10-18-2006, 11:43 PM
What usually happens when you take a bad shot? Does your head get pushed to the mat? Does he beat you with a sprawl? Does your nose get ripped off in a crossface? Does he get an easy underhook/headlock on you?

This is all very important - it shows what excactly your weakness is in the shot. You could be shooting with your head down, your face could be off his hip, etc etc.

"when i go down i have a problem coming back up when i pull my neck back i feel my neck/back pull."



Good point.

He's reaching too much. Period.

Work it slow in practice....over and over.

Your coach should help you out with the rest...SO...get off the internet and chase girls.

cpc5304
11-01-2006, 07:41 AM
You don't have to have a good shot to be a good takedown artist if you set your shots up the right way. I could never shoot from the outside (think John Smith), but if you learn to tie a guy up, get an underhook, and get hand control with the free hand, you are giving yourself a good chance of at least hitting your shot. Finishing it is a different story. Drill set ups, and learn to establish good hand control.

If you have trouble shooting, learn takedowns from other positions. Learn throws. My best way of getting a takedown was a front headlock. If I got a front headlock, I would get brutal, crank on the guy's neck, and get his face down on the mat. From there it is a matter of locking out the arm, and moving around to the back. It's not hard, and it takes no amount of athleticism or speed (couldn't, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to do it).

Throws are another means of getting takedowns, often putting the guy to his back, without shooting. It's a technique not used too often
(more of a freestyle technique than folk), but I had a kid nail a throw on me my senior year at the Ironman, didn't see that coming at all, and got rocked up to my back, almost pinned. Learn a good underhook- stepover throw (see the link below), and you can be dangerous without learning to shoot.

This is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJfcYb4mzdk

I know that Abdurakhmanov is an elite wrestler and not everybody has his freestyle ability or techniques, but give yourself options outside of your weakness.

I know this was all probably somewhat bad advice, but I'm not telling you to not learn to shoot. Do, and develop the best shot you can. But maybe don't rely on shots to get takedowns. I knew I was average from my feet, I knew it. I worked my ass off to get better, but against upper level competition, I was still just average, so I developed takedowns from other positions, became good at that, and thusly had a more rounded arsenal of takedowns. Play to your strength, but you have to be well rounded, otherwise your opponent will know what is coming.

The set up to a shot is just as important than how well you execute the shot itself.

D Bay
11-15-2006, 01:14 PM
Watch some takedown videos. It sounds like your talking about a double leg or single.
remember you have to step in deep, and through your opponent
lift them off the mat, (don't pull back as you stated)
there are many different takedowns, maybe try working some trips.
Look at Cael Sanderson
Yes and no. Depends on the shot and how you want to finish it,but if you and your coaches think your form for shooting whatever shot you are using is correct, the problem comes before you even shoot-setups. The set up you use for each shot is probably equally important to the shot itself. If you learn good set ups, learn what tie ups and holds can catch someone off gaurd or thinking the wrong way, your shot is much more likely to be successful. If you're serious about improving, I really recommend that you find a guy who does private lessons. Then you can tell him what you want to get, why you can't get it, have him analyze your shots, and help you get it all how it should be. Anyway, you really don't need to aim to lift someone off the mat at all. I'm not saying don't stop giving 100% once you have a shot in, but you can use leverage to make getting the takedown MUCH easier and take less energy out of you rather than trying to pick someone off the mat and throw them back down. Dont waste energy when you don't need to

D Bay
11-15-2006, 01:16 PM
You don't have to have a good shot to be a good takedown artist if you set your shots up the right way. I could never shoot from the outside (think John Smith), but if you learn to tie a guy up, get an underhook, and get hand control with the free hand, you are giving yourself a good chance of at least hitting your shot. Finishing it is a different story. Drill set ups, and learn to establish good hand control.

If you have trouble shooting, learn takedowns from other positions. Learn throws. My best way of getting a takedown was a front headlock. If I got a front headlock, I would get brutal, crank on the guy's neck, and get his face down on the mat. From there it is a matter of locking out the arm, and moving around to the back. It's not hard, and it takes no amount of athleticism or speed (couldn't, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to do it).

Throws are another means of getting takedowns, often putting the guy to his back, without shooting. It's a technique not used too often
(more of a freestyle technique than folk), but I had a kid nail a throw on me my senior year at the Ironman, didn't see that coming at all, and got rocked up to my back, almost pinned. Learn a good underhook- stepover throw (see the link below), and you can be dangerous without learning to shoot.

This is the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJfcYb4mzdk

I know that Abdurakhmanov is an elite wrestler and not everybody has his freestyle ability or techniques, but give yourself options outside of your weakness.

I know this was all probably somewhat bad advice, but I'm not telling you to not learn to shoot. Do, and develop the best shot you can. But maybe don't rely on shots to get takedowns. I knew I was average from my feet, I knew it. I worked my ass off to get better, but against upper level competition, I was still just average, so I developed takedowns from other positions, became good at that, and thusly had a more rounded arsenal of takedowns. Play to your strength, but you have to be well rounded, otherwise your opponent will know what is coming.

The set up to a shot is just as important than how well you execute the shot itself.

hey cpc, you don't wrestle for St.Ed's by any chance, do you?

jdeity
11-16-2006, 11:31 AM
But everyone's right...you need good shooting skills.
to a degree, i was never a great shooter and could always make it up on the ground, or by doing other take downs (duck under.... god that move owns)

cpc5304
12-08-2006, 09:25 AM
hey cpc, you don't wrestle for St.Ed's by any chance, do you?

Nope, I'm in college. But I had plenty of friends who wrestled at Ed's. I was not quite at that level. I wrestled at University School, an all boys school on the East side of Cleveland. Where do you wrestle?

D Bay
01-02-2007, 12:23 PM
Nope, I'm in college. But I had plenty of friends who wrestled at Ed's. I was not quite at that level. I wrestled at University School, an all boys school on the East side of Cleveland. Where do you wrestle?

Dublin Jerome. Our program's somewhat of a joke, but our coach is great, although he's getting old and this is his last year, he head coached for OSU for 10 years and for Ashland university for 10 years. He has coached many national champs, etc. So I figure I should just listen to every word he says and not worry about team records, etc. for now, but it's tough to keep motivated when you lose every dual, ya know?

al jaws
01-23-2007, 08:35 PM
I used to have a huge problem getting in a nice tight and fast shot. I then decided to work on my firemans from a neutral postion and i found that it helped me alot. THe way i was taught singles was head to the inside of the opponents thigh, it just didnt work out that way for me and that was my problem. After getting the firemans down pat i worked on my singles all the time and just kept my head the the outside of the opponents thigh and it mad all the difference in the world to me. I guess its a goofy way to shoot unless your gunna sweep single but it worked for me, thats all ive got.

Isaac Wilkins
01-24-2007, 02:30 PM
If you're a sweep-single shooter, that's fine. If you're not then you'll expose yourself to a wicked cross-face, which is why you were coached to keep your head inside.

That's not necessarily bad, just expect to get nosed once in a while.