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cts122
10-04-2006, 10:41 PM
Are any of the experienced users on this forum familiar with Mauro Di Pasquale's book called "The Anabolic Diet"? The author of this book is one of the bigger names in strength training and diet and considers his diet to be an alternative to steroids. I did a search and could not find any discussion on it which does surprise me. I haven't completed the book but have gone ahead and read the key parts of it and planning on going through it cover to cover when i get some more time.

Whether or not this is acually an "alternative" to steroids, it is quite effective as I do know a few people who have experimented with it. I have not actually tried it as gains have never seemed to be a problem for me, however i guess I am still relatively new to bodybuilding and am certainly interested in his ideas for the future. For those of you not familiar with it, I can give a brief idea of how it works.

It consists of a 7 day plan, the first 5 days are basically protein and fat only, the ratio is 60% fat and 40% protein with a small allowance for carbs but for the most part they are to be avoided. Because of the low carbs there is close to no insulin release which inhibits GH production so there is an increase in growth hormone as well as testosterone. Day 1,3, and 5 are all workout days.
Day 6 and 7 are carb loading days, i dont think the ratios are very important and protein is not really required but carbs should be about 70% of the calories. He says fat can be up to around 30% but I don't see why this would be needed and I would assume it is just for simplicity and ease. Insulin levels increase during this time at a reasonable level and your body switches into anabolic mode.

This is a very brief idea of what the book has to offer as it is over 100 pages but i just wanted to give an idea of what it entails.


I'm just looking to stir up some conversation about this diet. I do believe it is effective as I know a handful of people who have claimed it worked for them, but I'm just wondering if people around here don't like it or just don't know about it.

cts122
10-05-2006, 10:23 AM
nothing?

Anthony
10-05-2006, 10:34 AM
I haven't read the book, so I can't comment directly. But this link might interest you:

http://www.crossfit.com/discus/messages/23/30022.html (keep hitting next at the bottom, there are about 150 posts in total)

Paul Stagg
10-05-2006, 10:39 AM
The Anabloic Diet is a CKD. Two other books to read on the subject would be Lyle McDonalds book 'The Ketogenic diet', as well as 'Bodyopus'.

Personally, I don't like CKDs much for putting on muscle mass.

Slim Schaedle
10-05-2006, 10:45 AM
Are any of the experienced users on this forum familiar with Mauro Di Pasquale's book called "The Anabolic Diet"? The author of this book is one of the bigger names in strength training and diet and considers his diet to be an alternative to steroids. I did a search and could not find any discussion on it which does surprise me. I haven't completed the book but have gone ahead and read the key parts of it and planning on going through it cover to cover when i get some more time.

Whether or not this is acually an "alternative" to steroids, it is quite effective as I do know a few people who have experimented with it. I have not actually tried it as gains have never seemed to be a problem for me, however i guess I am still relatively new to bodybuilding and am certainly interested in his ideas for the future. For those of you not familiar with it, I can give a brief idea of how it works.

It consists of a 7 day plan, the first 5 days are basically protein and fat only, the ratio is 60% fat and 40% protein with a small allowance for carbs but for the most part they are to be avoided. Because of the low carbs there is close to no insulin release which inhibits GH production so there is an increase in growth hormone as well as testosterone. Day 1,3, and 5 are all workout days.
Day 6 and 7 are carb loading days, i dont think the ratios are very important and protein is not really required but carbs should be about 70% of the calories. He says fat can be up to around 30% but I don't see why this would be needed and I would assume it is just for simplicity and ease. Insulin levels increase during this time at a reasonable level and your body switches into anabolic mode.

This is a very brief idea of what the book has to offer as it is over 100 pages but i just wanted to give an idea of what it entails.


I'm just looking to stir up some conversation about this diet. I do believe it is effective as I know a handful of people who have claimed it worked for them, but I'm just wondering if people around here don't like it or just don't know about it.
Sounds like it slightly resembles UD2.0 (Lyle MacDonald) which I have had success with for the past few months.

Although UD2 requires approx 20% dietary fat from Mon to Thurs, while total calories are 50% of maintenance.

Strength goes up every week on about all exercises, including the 20 rep, high volume depletion days. Bodyfat less and less each week. Weekend carb loading and diet in general is actually fun.

I haven't used this specifically for gaining mass, but I feel it may work well for me when I decide to do so.

Since it somewhat mirrors Mario's approach, I say try it out. I actually have the book you are talking about but never read it in full.

Davidelmo
10-05-2006, 11:02 AM
I haven't read the book but the description sounds okay- as others have said it's very similar to UD2.0, which I have read. The carb deficiency and low calories (plus high rep workouts) is meant to deplete your muscle glycogen. The weekend re-fuelling is meant to prime you for muscle-building.

However no diet will ever elevate your GH and test in the way that steroids will.

I'm also not convinced that it would work better than constantly eating over maintenance. Lyle himself said in his book that his diet could be modified for muscle gain but not to expect any fat loss.

cts122
10-07-2006, 12:49 AM
Well i think you guys gave me the kind of info i was looking for. I am interested in Lyle McDonalds writing and have looked at his website, his philosophy section is interesting. Genetically, I have an easy time keeping off weight and always keep a high calorie diet. This past summer i experimented with under-maintenance dieting with good results but little strength gain compared with what I am used to. I am interested in using one of these diets, either the one i posted or something by Lyle McDonald, but not to lose fat. I would be taking in well over maintenance, with a hope of better strength gain and less fat gain then a simple high calorie diet could offer.

Davidelmo - I agree with you 100% that there is no natural alternative to steroids, however very shortly after I started lifting weights I started reading as much useful, reliable resources about natural bodybuilding and natural hormone stimulation. For me, I feel that alot of my progress can be attributed to these techniques so i would feel that a normal over maintainence diet would not provide as much muscle gain, but at the same time we all know that not one thing works for everyone.

Slim - It seems like you are impressed with the results of Lyle McDonald's diet for cutting. Do you think that this particular CKD or any others you may know of would be more effective for bulking than a simple carb cycling diet? As of now I incorporate carb/fat splitting and adjustment of carbohydrates based on the amount of physical training performed that particular day. I became interested in this particular diet because of results superior to anything I have achieved with Carb cycling in terms of weight gain. I always take everyone's claim of results with a grain of salt but a few reliable sources have claimed extreme results unheard of as far as natural bodybuilding is concerned.

Slim Schaedle
10-13-2006, 08:59 AM
Slim - It seems like you are impressed with the results of Lyle McDonald's diet for cutting. Do you think that this particular CKD or any others you may know of would be more effective for bulking than a simple carb cycling diet? As of now I incorporate carb/fat splitting and adjustment of carbohydrates based on the amount of physical training performed that particular day. I became interested in this particular diet because of results superior to anything I have achieved with Carb cycling in terms of weight gain. I always take everyone's claim of results with a grain of salt but a few reliable sources have claimed extreme results unheard of as far as natural bodybuilding is concerned.
Sorry for the delayed response.

I remebered this thread when I was walking to the gym the other day thinking how much I love the prgram I am on. As cheesy as that sounds, it really is true.

I haven't tried gaining on this type of diet b/c I haven't reached my bodyfat goals yet.

However, at this point, any future bulks I do will involve meticulous planning like this diet and will involve some form of cycling. This may not result in a large mass gain in a short amount of time, but in my past experience, this has just lead me to gain too much fat and it takes too long to cut to a level I am comfortable with. (last winter's bulk especially proved this, as I am still cutting even though I started in mid March)

I began UD2 by evaluating and calculating everything in terms of weight loss, etc etc (food is always calculated, and has to be) but slowly fell off that boat.

However, I just simply can;t ignore the fact that I literally gain strength every workout on almost every lift. I have mentioned tht a few times on here so I will quit before I bore people. It is just very surprising to me. Since we know that one can get stronger without putting on muscle, I won't ignore that issue....so I will mention that although I am cutting, I have some shirts that fit a little tighter...in the back for example. Though since I haven't been measuring, doingbodyfat analysis, etc etc, I canlt say for sure that I gained muscle.

In a nutshell, I think your idea is worth trying and it resembles my future plan for gaining as well.

ddegroff
10-13-2006, 09:39 AM
However, I just simply can;t ignore the fact that I literally gain strength every workout on almost every lift. I have mentioned tht a few times on here so I will quit before I bore people. It is just very surprising to me. Since we know that one can get stronger without putting on muscle, I won't ignore that issue....so I will mention that although I am cutting, I have some shirts that fit a little tighter...in the back for example. Though since I haven't been measuring, doingbodyfat analysis, etc etc, I canlt say for sure that I gained muscle.

I had the exact same experience while doing UD2 for fat loss. UD2 is in the plan for my bulk coming up.

cts122
02-21-2007, 11:01 AM
Sorry for the delayed response.

I remebered this thread when I was walking to the gym the other day thinking how much I love the prgram I am on. As cheesy as that sounds, it really is true.

I haven't tried gaining on this type of diet b/c I haven't reached my bodyfat goals yet.

However, at this point, any future bulks I do will involve meticulous planning like this diet and will involve some form of cycling. This may not result in a large mass gain in a short amount of time, but in my past experience, this has just lead me to gain too much fat and it takes too long to cut to a level I am comfortable with. (last winter's bulk especially proved this, as I am still cutting even though I started in mid March)

I began UD2 by evaluating and calculating everything in terms of weight loss, etc etc (food is always calculated, and has to be) but slowly fell off that boat.

However, I just simply can;t ignore the fact that I literally gain strength every workout on almost every lift. I have mentioned tht a few times on here so I will quit before I bore people. It is just very surprising to me. Since we know that one can get stronger without putting on muscle, I won't ignore that issue....so I will mention that although I am cutting, I have some shirts that fit a little tighter...in the back for example. Though since I haven't been measuring, doingbodyfat analysis, etc etc, I canlt say for sure that I gained muscle.

In a nutshell, I think your idea is worth trying and it resembles my future plan for gaining as well.

Slim, I am curious to know what your final results were with this diet. I waited a while but started the anabolic diet about 5 weeks ago. The results have been quite absurd. Within just these 5 weeks I have gone from about 180 to about 188 tuesday morning (last carb up weekend high 190s middle of Sunday) My bodyfat has dropped from 12% to 9.5% and all my lifts are up. I can not believe the results myself, every week I am bigger and slightly more cut also note i dont use gear.

My routine was
weekdays
about 60% fat 40% protein @ 4000 calories
weekend
saturday 800grams of almost all high Gi + 300grams of protein and about 100grams of fat
sunday 600 grams of complex carbs +300 grams of protein and 50-100 grams of fat

I don't see any reason to stop unless my gains halt, wondering how long you used UD 2.0 which i also have read - seems to be more strict, but much more geared towards cutting.



Also I have heard this diet gives much less results the second time around, has anyone tried this more than once?

Cirino83
02-21-2007, 01:03 PM
Hmm...this anabolic diet seems interesting. Definately going to have a look at it..

IZich
02-21-2007, 03:23 PM
short tidbit:

I am currently on DiPasquale's diet and have been on it strictly for 8 weeks now. Strength has improved while bodyfat has dropped from 20% to 17% and my weight has gone from 240 to 230.5(weighed in this morning).

If you have questions, just post back and I'll give more details.

the doc
02-21-2007, 05:05 PM
i've tried something like this before. I will say after doing both that it is easier to cut on a ketogenic program than to bulk on it. One needs to consume a LOT of fat

cts122
02-21-2007, 06:57 PM
i've tried something like this before. I will say after doing both that it is easier to cut on a ketogenic program than to bulk on it. One needs to consume a LOT of fat

hes not lying!

Slim Schaedle
02-22-2007, 08:16 PM
Slim, I am curious to know what your final results were with this diet.


Well, In March last year I was up to 220lbs. (not sure of BF% but too much was fat)

I cut "normally" to 203lbs taking in 3,600 cals.

On June 26, 2006 I started UD2. I adjusted my maintenance to 3,400 and based all UD2 calculations off of that.

I went until September 10th and during this time, bodyfat dropped visually, but each week my weight stayed prtetty much the same (200ish). Strength and endurance improved immensly and consistently like clockwork.

I took 1-2 weeks at maintenance and then hopped back on. It was honestly addicting. (stimulants work like magic when not eating alot of food...I couldn't beleive how good I felt sometimes)

Starting Dec 24th, I took another 2 weeks at maintence. At this point, bodyfat was still dropping visually, and weight hovered at 195 week to week.
Strength was still going up.


I took another week off around the end of January because I felt I was burning out. I went on for 1 week and then called it quits after that.

At that point I was around 190-195.

Since then I have been maintaining at 4200 cals/day (with activity factored in)

I haven't had my bodyfat measured officially, but I was calipered for a class just last week (done properly) and it was measured at 9%.


I am going to slow bulk for a while. UD2 holds a special place in my heart now, and I am sure I will do it again sometime. It certainly made me realize how wrongly I had bulked last winter.

Hopefully all that helps you out.


(looking back, there's no way I would be able to regurgitate all this for you unless I kept track of all my stuff, and it makes me realize how important it is for me)

cts122
02-23-2007, 04:55 AM
On June 26, 2006 I started UD2. I adjusted my maintenance to 3,400 and based all UD2 calculations off of that.

I went until September 10th and during this time, bodyfat dropped visually, but each week my weight stayed prtetty much the same (200ish). Strength and endurance improved immensly and consistently like clockwork.

Couple questions, when you say you adjusted maintenance off 3400, does that mean you were taking in around 3400 on the diet or you were taking in around half that. ( I havent read the full UD2.0 book, but i do own it and plan to, for some reason i thought you eat way under maintenance on the diet.) I feel as though if you were taking in like 1700 calories for three months the weight would have fallen off very quick, no?



I took 1-2 weeks at maintenance and then hopped back on. It was honestly addicting. (stimulants work like magic when not eating alot of food...I couldn't beleive how good I felt sometimes)

Starting Dec 24th, I took another 2 weeks at maintence. At this point, bodyfat was still dropping visually, and weight hovered at 195 week to week.
Strength was still going up.

I also want to know, when you say you took weeks off at maintenance are you saying a week off the diet altogether, eating carbs normally or did you adhere loosely to the diet with calories higher (again i don't know exactly what UD2.0 calls for but the diet i have been following has been about 60% fat 40% protein and extremely high carbs and some protein 2 days a week and i know this is a bit different from ud2.0.) The reason i ask this is have read that it is easy to lay on fat just off of this kind of diet as your body becomes more sensitive to insulin. i am afraid to come off this diet for a week for spring break, but i am wondering if maybe i should be worrying less.

Anyway, thanks for getting back to me.

Slim Schaedle
02-23-2007, 07:10 AM
Couple questions, when you say you adjusted maintenance off 3400, does that mean you were taking in around 3400 on the diet or you were taking in around half that.



I also want to know, when you say you took weeks off at maintenance are you saying a week off the diet altogether, eating carbs normally or did you adhere loosely to the diet with calories higher .

From Monday until Thursday night calories are at half maintenance per day. So that was 1,700.

Some of the weekend calculations were based off this, but they were:

Thursday night to Friday
carbs = 1,500
pro = 190
fat = 50

Saturday
carbs = 475
pro = 190
fat = 80

Sunday
carb = 280
pro = 190
fat = 170

1,700 is low as crap, but the weekend made up for it and the coordination of the workouts are what allowed me to maintain weight while dropping fat.

The book goes into crazy detail why this actually works, so it is certainly worth the cost and the read.

cts122
02-23-2007, 10:40 AM
From Monday until Thursday night calories are at half maintenance per day. So that was 1,700.

Some of the weekend calculations were based off this, but they were:

Thursday night to Friday
carbs = 1,500
pro = 190
fat = 50

Saturday
carbs = 475
pro = 190
fat = 80

Sunday
carb = 280
pro = 190
fat = 170

1,700 is low as crap, but the weekend made up for it and the coordination of the workouts are what allowed me to maintain weight while dropping fat.

The book goes into crazy detail why this actually works, so it is certainly worth the cost and the read.

Okay now i understand a little more, 1500 carbs is, to say the least a lot.

And did you slowly reintroduce carbs at all or just get back going as normal when you stopped the diet? If not did your bodyfat creep up a bit?

btw i do own a copy of UD2.0 actually but i just have not got around to looking at it yet.

* sorry to ask so many questions, i just dont know many other people who really know what they're talking about.

Slim Schaedle
02-23-2007, 11:38 AM
Okay now i understand a little more, 1500 carbs is, to say the least a lot.

And did you slowly reintroduce carbs at all or just get back going as normal when you stopped the diet? If not did your bodyfat creep up a bit?

btw i do own a copy of UD2.0 actually but i just have not got around to looking at it yet.

* sorry to ask so many questions, i just dont know many other people who really know what they're talking about.

My body handles carbs very well so upping them when I went back to maintenance didn't have a huge effect other than making me very happy that I was loaded with glycogen all the time. To me, that is one of the best feelings.

With a maintenance of 4200, this allowed me to eat 700g/day with absoulutely no weight gain for 5-6 weeks.

This amount tended to bloat me pretty well but that has subsided a bit. I can't say if I gained fat b/c holding the extra water and bloat can be deceiving. The caliper measurement was just last week, so if 6 weeks of maintence led to any fat gain, it wouldn't have been alot.

Stout
02-23-2007, 01:32 PM
very shortly after I started lifting weights I started reading as much useful, reliable resources about natural bodybuilding and natural hormone stimulation.


I don't mean to jack your tread but was wondering if you are taking about online sources, books or what not and if you could point me in the right direction for these types of readings.

sleeplessaddict
02-23-2007, 03:33 PM
i think the anabolic diet is a good idea

Bupp
02-25-2007, 10:02 PM
Bonus points to the author of Anabolic Diet for being a serious powerlifter back in the day.