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View Full Version : Whats the average clean and press an average untrained man would do?



cornmaster
10-14-2006, 04:34 AM
Just wondering.

Davidelmo
10-14-2006, 05:18 AM
a guess.. around 100lbs maybe?

Assuming he'd been shown how to do it etc

drew
10-14-2006, 09:03 AM
I wouldn't ever have an untrained person perform clean and press.

erik-the-red
10-14-2006, 03:07 PM
I wouldn't ever have an untrained person perform clean and press.

I don't believe that an untrained person can correctly perform a clean and press. By correct, I'm considering the immense technique involved in the clean portion.

Now, I bet you can find a lot of guys who can "momentum + reverse curl" 135 pounds and masquerade that as a clean and press...

Stumprrp
10-14-2006, 03:19 PM
around 100 lbs is my guess for the press at least, a strict 100 lb press without any training is pretty decent.

Nik00117
10-14-2006, 05:02 PM
I figure 80 to 100 LBs thats what I did. By training i'm going to assume you mean, lifting it, but having a person showing you, and ensuring you do it properly.

Anthony
10-14-2006, 05:08 PM
It's not exactly what you are asking, but you might want to check out this document for an idea:

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-journal/WLSTANDARDS.pdf

An untrained guy weighing 165-181 would have an avg 79-85lbs power clean and a 75-81 press.

RedSpikeyThing
10-14-2006, 07:49 PM
It's not exactly what you are asking, but you might want to check out this document for an idea:

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-journal/WLSTANDARDS.pdf

An untrained guy weighing 165-181 would have an avg 79-85lbs power clean and a 75-81 press.

That's a very good table, thanks for the link.

Sensei
10-15-2006, 01:00 AM
I would agree with that table. If you go with an "average guy" weighing, say 170 or so, and being able to clean and press roughly half his bdwt., it works out about the same. Of course, a lot of people would do much less and some would be surprisingly strong.

SkinnySadMan
10-29-2006, 10:53 AM
Cool if that chart is accurate I'd be around the intermediate to and almost "advanced".


....now to gain 30 lbs.

Dale Mabry
10-29-2006, 11:07 AM
No way to really know. I would guess 75-150 would be "normal."

ShockBoxer
10-30-2006, 08:58 AM
By that chart I'm novice on everything except deadlifts. Sigh. I need to eat more..

Westsidemonster
10-31-2006, 04:43 AM
Just wondering.
This is an interesting question, totally untrained men, they have different strength levels, don't ask me why, I guess it's genetics. Also, the heavy men would usually be naturally stronger than very skinny men. Taller men tend to be naturally stronger too, but not always. Strength is very mysterious
Btw, not all untrained men can clean and press 100lbs!!! The thing is, nowadays, it's difficult to measure a man's natural strength, since it seems most men do at least some type of physical activity, even if that means just playing some basketball once in a while, that could build some strength in a man. A totally untrained man is usually weak, maybe clean and pressing 80 lbs at the most. An untrained woman is a lot weaker than that.
Totally untrained would be someone who doesn't do any physical activity like sports or weightlifting, basically your typical couch potato

Sexybeast777
11-05-2006, 04:04 AM
This is an interesting question, totally untrained men, they have different strength levels, don't ask me why, I guess it's genetics. Also, the heavy men would usually be naturally stronger than very skinny men. Taller men tend to be naturally stronger too, but not always. Strength is very mysterious
Btw, not all untrained men can clean and press 100lbs!!! The thing is, nowadays, it's difficult to measure a man's natural strength, since it seems most men do at least some type of physical activity, even if that means just playing some basketball once in a while, that could build some strength in a man. A totally untrained man is usually weak, maybe clean and pressing 80 lbs at the most. An untrained woman is a lot weaker than that.
Totally untrained would be someone who doesn't do any physical activity like sports or weightlifting, basically your typical couch potato
It probably has to do with genetics and testosterone levels, and in my opinion, the average man is probably twice as strong as the average woman, but I could be wrong :hump:

Davidelmo
11-07-2006, 12:19 PM
It probably has to do with genetics and testosterone levels, and in my opinion, the average man is probably twice as strong as the average woman, but I could be wrong :hump:

Way more than 2x IMO.

No offence to any ladies of course but most untrained men are still waaaaay stronger than untrained women.

Chris686
11-08-2006, 12:08 AM
I like that table. It almost puts me in the advanced line :)

So close.

Sexybeast777
11-08-2006, 03:30 AM
Way more than 2x IMO.

No offence to any ladies of course but most untrained men are still waaaaay stronger than untrained women.
I think you are right, now that I've done some thinking, I think it's more like 3-4 times the strength of a woman, I mean, the average untrained man is about 3-4 times stronger than the average untrained woman, but I could be wrong

noahfor123
11-08-2006, 12:48 PM
My untrained girlfriend deadlifted 180 pounds the one time I took her to work out with me. She's about 5'1 and 115 pounds. So, if the average untrained man is 3-4 times as strong as the average untrained woman, then that would mean the average untrained man should be able to lift 540-720 pounds, if we're going by absolute strength, and somewhere around 900-1200 pounds if we're going by strength relative to bodyweight, and the man weighs 200 pounds.

ArchAngel777
11-08-2006, 01:36 PM
My untrained girlfriend deadlifted 180 pounds the one time I took her to work out with me. She's about 5'1 and 115 pounds. So, if the average untrained man is 3-4 times as strong as the average untrained woman, then that would mean the average untrained man should be able to lift 540-720 pounds, if we're going by absolute strength, and somewhere around 900-1200 pounds if we're going by strength relative to bodyweight, and the man weighs 200 pounds.

Obviously your untrained girlfriend doesn't fall under the "average" category. Most women couldn't do a 1/3 of that. Some untrained men could no doubt do 500, but that doesn't mean they are the rule of thumb, rather, they are the exception.

-Superman-
11-08-2006, 01:42 PM
I am novice to intermediate in almost everything. I see myself becoming advanced in the bench press sometime next year though.

:D

care_bear
11-08-2006, 01:47 PM
if its max rep then i'm advanced for the press

ShockBoxer
11-08-2006, 02:09 PM
She's a deadlifting freak of nature. Train her so she can break a few records! It took me a month to get to 180 for reps and I weighed 180.

My girlfriend did 70 with good form and she's 15 pounds heavier.


My untrained girlfriend deadlifted 180 pounds the one time I took her to work out with me. She's about 5'1 and 115 pounds. So, if the average untrained man is 3-4 times as strong as the average untrained woman, then that would mean the average untrained man should be able to lift 540-720 pounds, if we're going by absolute strength, and somewhere around 900-1200 pounds if we're going by strength relative to bodyweight, and the man weighs 200 pounds.

Guido
11-08-2006, 02:29 PM
I am novice to intermediate in almost everything. I see myself becoming advanced in the bench press sometime next year though.

:DWhy not in everything else?

-Superman-
11-08-2006, 03:32 PM
Why not in everything else?

Because I suck.

:(

Sexybeast777
11-11-2006, 05:14 AM
My untrained girlfriend deadlifted 180 pounds the one time I took her to work out with me. She's about 5'1 and 115 pounds. So, if the average untrained man is 3-4 times as strong as the average untrained woman, then that would mean the average untrained man should be able to lift 540-720 pounds, if we're going by absolute strength, and somewhere around 900-1200 pounds if we're going by strength relative to bodyweight, and the man weighs 200 pounds.
I think you are right, maybe it's not 3-4 times, it's just twice the strength of a woman. The very first time I deadlifted a weight, I did 365lbs and I was 135lbs, I was 17 yrs old. But I was already working out and pretty strong with everything else. I guess your g/f is very strong! But I guess a totally untrained man with good genetics, could probably lift twice that (360lbs)...But then again men are usually taller and heavier...I don't know..I guess when it comes to strength in proportion of height/bodyweight, we are not that much stronger after all, maybe only 1.5 stronger, let's say, in proportion with bodyweight, that means, the average, totally untrained 150lb man has 1.5 times the strength of the average totally untrained 150lb woman, and this would be just an estimate. Btw, are you sure your g/f is totally untrained? Maybe she plays some sports and/or roller skates, that would add strength! Totally untrained would be someone who doesn't do any sports, or anything physically demanding, basically a couch potato. I really doubt that a 5'1'' 115lb female couch potato could deadlift 180lbs, but I could be wrong.

mikesbytes
11-12-2006, 05:58 AM
According to that chart, an untrained 115lbs Female is a long way short of 180lbs.

I would of thought the untrained man would of deadlifted twice what the untrained woman would deadlift, but according to that chart, its closer than that.

I've compared the data in that chart (WLSTANDARDS.pdf) and if we assume that the average man is a little heaver than the average woman, then the untrained man can deadlift 1.7x what the untrained woman can. If we compare men and woman of the same weight, then the untrained man can deadlift 1.5x what the untrained woman can deadlift.

See attachment.

Personal observation. Males have best strength in the movement and at the end the muscle action, ideally suited for lifting heavy objects. Female strength is more evenly distributed thru the range of the movement and in the ability to hold at a bent point, for example holding themselves at the bottom point of a lunge.

Davidelmo
11-12-2006, 09:20 AM
My untrained girlfriend deadlifted 180 pounds the one time I took her to work out with me. She's about 5'1 and 115 pounds. So, if the average untrained man is 3-4 times as strong as the average untrained woman, then that would mean the average untrained man should be able to lift 540-720 pounds, if we're going by absolute strength, and somewhere around 900-1200 pounds if we're going by strength relative to bodyweight, and the man weighs 200 pounds.

Your girlfriend is definately not average in that case. You can't really apply her lift to other people.

I remember even built saying it took her almost a year to squat 1pps.




I think you are right, maybe it's not 3-4 times, it's just twice the strength of a woman. The very first time I deadlifted a weight, I did 365lbs and I was 135lbs, I was 17 yrs old. But I was already working out and pretty strong with everything else. I guess your g/f is very strong! But I guess a totally untrained man with good genetics, could probably lift twice that (360lbs)...But then again men are usually taller and heavier...I don't know..I guess when it comes to strength in proportion of height/bodyweight, we are not that much stronger after all, maybe only 1.5 stronger, let's say, in proportion with bodyweight, that means, the average, totally untrained 150lb man has 1.5 times the strength of the average totally untrained 150lb woman, and this would be just an estimate. Btw, are you sure your g/f is totally untrained? Maybe she plays some sports and/or roller skates, that would add strength! Totally untrained would be someone who doesn't do any sports, or anything physically demanding, basically a couch potato. I really doubt that a 5'1'' 115lb female couch potato could deadlift 180lbs, but I could be wrong.

If you had previously done training before, you're not "untrained"

Either way, 365lb deadlift is good if you weighed 135lbs.

Koing
11-12-2006, 05:36 PM
1/2 bw is good imo. But that depends on what you call a 'Clean'. Most will be a horrible reverse curl, muscle up the bar with arms and little to no leg and hip drive.

Koing

ArchAngel777
11-13-2006, 01:38 PM
I was one of the few rare people who picked up the mechanics of the clean right away. I remember being shown by good ole coach the lift for the first time. It took less than a few cleans to figure it out with basic strict technique. Within a few workouts I was 177 (BW) (I remember that distinctly) power cleans with great technique.

Each person is different though. My coach told me about his brother who never lifted a weight in his life power cleaned $210 his best back then and was just floored when his brother just did it with ease, never doing one before.

Coach knew what he was doing... Had a few minnesota records for a 353 Split clean & Jerk @ 85kilos.

Anyway, sorry to bore you all, but some people understand the mechanics (physics) behind the lift without even doing it. They do well, but will gain less overall due to starting out so much higher. The lift is technique + speed with overall strength secondary.

Davidelmo
11-13-2006, 02:20 PM
^^ I can't do cleans for the life of me. I'm one of those people who just can't get it to work and I do "muscle up" the weight.. unfortunately not a lot of weight, lol

Koing
11-13-2006, 04:23 PM
I was one of the few rare people who picked up the mechanics of the clean right away. I remember being shown by good ole coach the lift for the first time. It took less than a few cleans to figure it out with basic strict technique. Within a few workouts I was 177 (BW) (I remember that distinctly) power cleans with great technique.

Each person is different though. My coach told me about his brother who never lifted a weight in his life power cleaned $210 his best back then and was just floored when his brother just did it with ease, never doing one before.

Coach knew what he was doing... Had a few minnesota records for a 353 Split clean & Jerk @ 85kilos.

Anyway, sorry to bore you all, but some people understand the mechanics (physics) behind the lift without even doing it. They do well, but will gain less overall due to starting out so much higher. The lift is technique + speed with overall strength secondary.

Indeed.

Some guys pick it up A LOT faster then others.

I'm coaching 2 work guys and after 3 weeks and about 14 sessions one can C&J 60kg for a double and 2sets with good formm. A few little mistakes but overall good form. He weighs only 83Kg. A week earlier he only did 60Kg for a single. He has good squat depth and doesn't have any mobility problems to hinder him. He can over head squat with good form, deep front squats with high elbows. The kicker is he is 6'4! Lowest squat for a guy of 6'4 I have ever seen.

Koing

mikesbytes
11-14-2006, 04:05 AM
What exactly is meant by a "clean" ?

Anyone got a link to a good example

Sexybeast777
11-14-2006, 04:39 AM
Your girlfriend is definately not average in that case. You can't really apply her lift to other people.

I remember even built saying it took her almost a year to squat 1pps.





If you had previously done training before, you're not "untrained"

Either way, 365lb deadlift is good if you weighed 135lbs.
Thanks man! I remember I turned red like a tomato and there were veins everywhere in my neck, it looked horrible! But that's how I was, I was not afraid to push myself to the real limit!..:)