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View Full Version : olympic lifting - hands stationary on bar?



jdeity
10-15-2006, 05:02 PM
Just wondering if hands remain gripped the entire time on the olypic stuff, snatches / cleans / etc

after catching the bar on my chest, on the way from my chest back down to start position i rotate the bar - can't tell if this is being done because it's natural, or because i'm using a goddamned easy bar (gotta make due lol)

jdeity
10-15-2006, 05:10 PM
oh, I was also wondering what a respectable weight is for the olympic lift where you: stand holding the bar, dip the bar a little, explode it up with traps/calfs/body, and then catch it like you were going to do a front squat (upper chest).

Oh yeah, respectable is all relative, so i guess i should put in a frame of reference:
155lbs (me)
bench max: 285
dl: 405
squat: mid 300's I think

I'm new (obviously) to olympic stuff, but was doing ~150lbs today and any set i did at that weight was only done to 2 reps, and the second was damn sloppy. Does that number kind of match where I should be? I'm having trouble telling if I'm at a good weight and am struggling because of that, if my form is off, or if the ez curl bar is messing with me

khari
10-15-2006, 06:09 PM
How do you squat and deadlift without a barbell?

jdeity
10-15-2006, 06:34 PM
it's an ez curl bar, not an olympic one. It's thinner than oly, and also has bends in it. the last several inches of either end of the bar, right before the plates, are totally straight, which is where i grip (not that there's another feasible spot to do so). Kind of sucks because I can't choose my grip, but it beats not doing them at all.

clawhammer_33
10-15-2006, 07:04 PM
Check the videos from crossfit.com, they have excellent oly videos and explanations.

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html

Maximus96
10-15-2006, 08:12 PM
Check the videos from crossfit.com, they have excellent oly videos and explanations.

http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html

it would take you a month to learn online what you can learn from an experienced trainer in 2 hours when it comes to form

Natetaco
10-15-2006, 09:19 PM
it would take you a month to learn online what you can learn from an experienced trainer in 2 hours when it comes to form


2 hours? uh i think not.

jdeity
10-17-2006, 08:20 AM
i actually did have this taught to me by a trainer one time maybe a year ago, but was never comfortable enough to really do it. I read about it for a while, did it lightly, and am now pretty comfortable I'm not gonna really hurt myself. tho i surely don't think i'm anywhere near perfect form yet...


What about that weight? Is that something solid to be working with? I mean if i just learned deadlifts and was pulling 200lbs and thought that it was pretty tough and didn't wanna hurt myself, i'd be wasting so much time not pushing faster. not saying i'd just add weight i wasn't ready for, but i'd just like to know, baseed on the stats i put in my second post, what a decent weight goal would be for me to do, say, 3 reps of the one where i catch it in front squat stance (unsure what it's called, a clean maybe? power clean? I watch the videos and still can't tell the differencde between those two, they look like an identical movement.)

Maximus96
10-17-2006, 10:34 PM
2 hours? uh i think not.

ever tried it? 2 hours may be a stretch, but a few hours with an intelligent trainer will teach you more then the internet ever could (when it comes to spotting form on a lift such as this), and much faster too.

dw06wu
10-18-2006, 12:16 PM
oh, I was also wondering what a respectable weight is for the olympic lift where you: stand holding the bar, dip the bar a little, explode it up with traps/calfs/body, and then catch it like you were going to do a front squat (upper chest).
This is called a hang clean, and BW would be quite respectable for a casual dabbler. I get the feeling that you are probably using your arms a lot, though. Good way to ruin the mechanics of the lift.

jdeity
10-18-2006, 06:42 PM
I believe I am as well, I am not able to fluidly use my calfs to help explode.

When i try my hardest to use calfs for more explosion, it f's my footing up. I wish i had a local friend who knew these!!

jdeity
10-18-2006, 06:43 PM
I know i must be using too much arm because I was doing bodyweight for two reps, and i've only been messing with these seriously for a couple weeks. Well, seriously may be a stretch, but you know what i mean

khari
10-18-2006, 11:39 PM
You're shouldn't be getting a lot of power from the calves. You should be extending onto the toes as a result of the upward force generated by the pull ie. mostly the posterior chain.

Fenrir
10-19-2006, 05:35 AM
keep ur hook grip on, and check out these video's to see how it is done properly, coming from experience, u should never perform the lift if u are not completely confident in yourself to perform it correctly everytime...that will take months probably...

http://www.qwa.org/

Anthony
10-19-2006, 06:57 AM
Doing the olympic lifts without an actual olympic bar (not a powerlifting bar that most people call an olympic bar) and bumper plates is pretty dangerous.

1) Powerlifting bars don't whip, there's hardly any rotation, so all of the torque is applied directly to your wrists. Not that big of a deal with high reps, but there's a world of difference when going for a max.

2) No bumpers means your instincts will try to prevent the bar from falling and/or catch the bar during a failed attempt instead of just bailing. Again, great way to promote injury.

And now you're trying to use a curl bar? Ouch. I think you'd be better off doing jump shrug, front squat, and push press as separate movements. You'll get some of the benefits of a clean without destroying your wrists.

Guido
10-19-2006, 07:55 AM
Anthony is right. You really shouldn't be doing anywhere near maximal weight without proper equipment.

jdeity
10-19-2006, 08:45 AM
Thanks for the heads up, i'll do those instead for anything remotely heavy - okay to practice form on light (<75lbs) weights? Or is it useless since the bar is teachign me wrong motions anyways?

Sleepy Guy
10-20-2006, 08:23 PM
The bar is a very good start. Get a local that can teach you and just practice. The Internet only goes so far in coaching.

A strong person does not have to prove anything. Do 3 or more sets with the bar to practice before adding weight. Snatch is very technical.

Maximus96
10-21-2006, 09:41 AM
you wont be able to do 75 lbs. find a teacher in town to show you how

jdeity
10-21-2006, 05:27 PM
you wont be able to do 75 lbs. find a teacher in town to show you how
Snatch is the one on yoru chest, right? I'm pulling 150 into front squat position, which is like 5-10lbs less than my bodyweight.


The reason I don't like training with just bar is because w/o the resistance, I can't feel when something isn't right. For instance, I was doing htat, but as soon as I added weight i could feel things i could not before, namely that I was using waaaaay too much arms.

khari
10-21-2006, 05:44 PM
Snatch = from the ground to overhead in one motion.

jdeity
10-21-2006, 06:29 PM
Snatch = from the ground to overhead in one motion.
lol nope not 150lbs on those.....

What is a good weight to do (relative to bodyweight) on the one you catch on your front squat position? (and is that a clean? if so, then a clean/jerk is when you do a push press out of it? Then what's a power clean?)

khari
10-21-2006, 08:01 PM
Full squat clean = bar starts on the ground and is caught in the front squat.
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/Clean.html

Power clean = bar starts on the ground and is caught above parallel, although usually with only a small bend in the knees


Jerk = is basically a push press, except instead of pressing it out to lockout, you split the legs (almost like a lunge, except the back leg is only slightly bent) to get under the bar.
http://exrx.net/WeightExercises/OlympicLifts/SplitJerk.html

jdeity
10-22-2006, 08:05 AM
wait, so which is the one that starts with you holding the bar, you dip your knees a bit, and hten pull it upwards to front squat?

Anthony
10-22-2006, 09:11 AM
If you can remember that ...

Hang = starts from standing.
Power = catch the bar above parallel.

It makes it easy to remember that ...

Clean = start from floor, catch in full squat.
Power Clean = start from floor, catch above parallel.
Hang Clean = start from standing, catch in full squat.
Hang Power Clean = start from standing, catch above parallel.

Sleepy Guy
10-22-2006, 02:53 PM
Anthony you should add:

Clean is shoulder width grip and snatch is a wide grip. But there is a close grip snatch too. Man contradicting myself already.

Snatch = start from floor, catch in full squat.
Power Snatch = start from floor, catch above parallel.
Hang Santch = start from standing, catch in full squat.
Hang Power Snatch = start from standing, catch above parallel.

jdeity
10-22-2006, 05:23 PM
When you say catch above parallel, you mean just catch it before you dip your thighs past parallel?

When you catch it in full squat, is there danger (when using heavy stuff) that you don't properly cushion yourself, putting more stress on your knees than you had intended?

So, do you decide that you want to do one or the other (power v. non-power), or are you doing power ones on your warm ups (on lighter stuff), and as you get heavier you're doing regular ones? And which ones are the ones that are more 'common', like the ones that you'd compare strengths in (like if i were explaining front squats v. regular squats, regular squats are more of a benchmark exercise) (thanks for the explanations by the way, watching the videos on crossfit and trying to determine these differences was pissing me off)

Anthony
10-23-2006, 05:42 AM
Yes, above parallel means the crease in your hip is above the top of your knee while in a squat position.

I don't understand what you mean by "cushion yourself."

Warm up with power cleans when you want to do power cleans. Warm up with cleans when you want to do cleans.

Power cleans are probably more common because they are easier to teach and learn.

jdeity
10-23-2006, 08:31 AM
By cushioning yourself i mean that when you're coming down with the weight, you need to apply resistance so your ass doesn't barrel into your calves - I meant can you mess this up and hurt your knees. Now upon retyping this i'm thinking that any weight you can get up to front squat position isn't gonna be anything you cannot 'cushion' properly with your legs.

Anthony
10-23-2006, 09:56 AM
Ideally, you catch it at the peak of it's upward movement. So it's not like you'd move a bar 4-5 feet in the air, squat into position, and then wait for it to crash on you.

Fenrir
10-25-2006, 10:46 PM
If you have the cash then get the Eleiko bar, very well suited to olympic style lifting.

Fenrir
10-25-2006, 10:50 PM
The olympic movements aren't easy to learn at first, you will need someone has some experience in them to show u first. They are fast explosive moves, so they leave little room for mistakes, ur form may take months to get perfect.

jdeity
10-26-2006, 08:34 AM
If you have the cash then get the Eleiko bar, very well suited to olympic style lifting.
noted. i can't get anything yet, i live in an apt with hollow floors, so that's the reason i have the little kids' ezcurl setup going on lol.

In a couple months i'm moving across country, and should have found a house within a couple months, then it's tiem for a bar, a rack, some rubber pads, and some plates :)

(btw, whoever said i wouldn't be able to do 75lbs snatch, i'm pretty sure that isn't so hard, i can do 50lbs like it is nothign for many reps. Unless poor form means the reps don't count, i can't promise my form is 100%. and yeah i know i said i'd stop and did for the most part, i've just been playing with it really lightly, until i can get better stuff to do with.)

Koing
11-12-2006, 04:35 PM
If you can get 2/3 of bw that is an okay figure for an inexperience lifter. More so with one without a coach.

BW Snatch is the 'bench mark' in most gyms. If you can bw Snatch you can call yourself a 'weightlifter' :P. It is a good milestone, then on to 1.5x and eventually to 2x if you ever get there. You must be producing huge amounts of power to get 2x bw Snatch...

You can dip and drive and move your hands along the bar once you have it at the top of the Clean position. You can do this after getting out of the Clean squat recovery also.

Koing