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RedSpikeyThing
10-25-2006, 08:14 PM
I've been doing the Westside routine for almost 2 months now and have a lot of strength gains to credit to it. Between playing hockey and school, I feel Westside is just beating the **** out of me. I'm tired and sore and I'm not lifting cars over my head yet. Ok so forget the cars, I'm tired and sore. And I can't always make it to gym 4 days a week.
Now to the point: I'm looking at beginning Westside for Skinny bastards (http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459321). (and here's part II (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-100-training)).

Vital stats:
20 years old, 5'8", 150 lbs and bulking
Bench: 165
Squat: 265
Deadlift: 290

So here are the questions: What do you big, strong, car twirling people think of the routine?
My hockey schedule is irregular at best, so what do you think I should do for the extra workout?
What do you think is more important: sheer strength, or sacrificing some strength gains for gaining muscle?
Any other tips and/or suggestions?

drew
10-25-2006, 08:24 PM
I think it's a great program and if the standard template is killing you, maybe the WS4SB will be a good change.

Don't worry about extra workouts. If you're playing sports, you're already doing plenty.

Sheer strength is more important than mass, but no reason you can't chow down and pack on some mass too!

Ruffian
10-25-2006, 10:23 PM
I just have to say that the main reason you may be tired is that you arent eating enough to suppliment your hard lifting schedual and hockey. You are 2" taller then me and weigh only 8 lbs more.... I think maybe if you upped your calories you would perhaps not be so physically exhausted.

What is your diet like?

K1M
10-25-2006, 10:24 PM
Try doing the normal westside, but only workout 3 times a week.

Week 1:
ME Bench
Off
ME Squat/DL
Off
DE Bench
Off
Off

Week 2:
DE Squat/DL
Off
ME Bench
Off
ME Squat/DL

and so on..

JustinASU
10-26-2006, 06:15 AM
Deload.

TommyBoy
10-26-2006, 06:19 AM
Yeah defnitely take a deload week when you feel beat up. Also, I think you should back off on some of the exercises due to the hockey. I used to play hockey and I remember that it took a lot out of me. Listen to your body and only do what you have to. Don't feel like you'll get weak if you back off for a bit. As far as focusing on muscle gains vs. strength gains, well, just focus on the strength gains and the muscle gains will follow.

WillKuenzel
10-26-2006, 06:44 AM
Take a couple days off. Relax from the lifting and let your body heal. Westside is for powerlifters. That's their sport. The program is designed if you are doing powerlifting. If you want to incoporate it into a sport you'll have to change things in order to accomidate for sports practice.

My suggestions:
Break the program down into 3 days,
Day 1:
ME squat
pullups
Day 2:
ME bench
pullups
Day 3 :
DE bench
DE squat

Or...

Day 1:
ME squat
DE bench
pullups
Day 2:
ME bench
DE squat
pullups

...and eat more.



But really in saying all that, what are your goals? Do you want to powerlift or get better at hockey? Westside can work for sports but there are a few things I would change in order to facilitate a bit better sports specific strength.

Bob
10-26-2006, 06:48 AM
20 years old, 5'8", 150 lbs and bulking
My hockey schedule is irregular at best
These 2 things stick out to me...
I was your height and weight when I was a soph in HS.. and use to play a lot of sports.. eating is the key.. along with rest.

What does an irregular hockey schedule look like? 2 times per week? 3, 4, 5, more? Once a day, twice a day?

What are you macros? Are you getting enough proteins and fats?

Good luck..

betastas
10-26-2006, 07:20 AM
You and me had the same starting stats, only I'm an inch shorter. I found with westside (and with all heavy training really) that you need to eat a fairly large amount of food. Start tracking and find what you're eating.

I was eating between 3500-4000 a day and gaining about 1 lb a week. I dropped down to about 2000 for a few days when I wasn't able to get to the grocery store, and MAN, did I ever get sore and beat up. When I began eating more again it all went away.

Also, deload. You need to rest a bit and get your diet and program in order.

RedSpikeyThing
10-26-2006, 07:51 AM
My diet is definately in check. I'm consistently eating 3500-3750 calories and gaining 1-2 lbs per week. I'm always hitting my minimums, typically 100-150 g of fat, 200-250 g of protein and the rest carbs. And yes I'm eating good whole food. In fear of gaining too much fat I'm not going to eat any more than that, unless my bulk starts stalling.

I play intermural hockey (read: low level organized hockey). We usually play once per week, but the day always changes. However, we could play 2 or more games per week. Furthermore the schedule never comes out more than 2 weeks in advance. That's what I mean by irregular.

Just to get my goals clear, strength is primary. Muscle size is good, but as Tommy said, it will come with strength and food. Hockey is for fun. I'm not good at it and I never plan on being competitive with it. It does, however, get priority over my workouts.

I like the 3 day variation of Westside (which is why I was initially interested in WS4SB), but I'm not sure if I can take the constant 1 RMs. Maybe I'll switch it up to a 2 or 3 RM and work from there. I just don't feel comfortable under my 1 RM squat or bench. Oddly enough, I feel ok doing a max DL.

I might take a week off. Training makes me feel better mentally, so I don't like taking time off. Maybe I'll just do a lighter week. I know it's an individual thing, but how often do you guys deload?

Thanks for the input and keep it coming!

ShockBoxer
10-26-2006, 07:55 AM
I don't think there would be anything wrong with a light week as a deloading week. Keep things to something like 50% of your 1rm and you're not stressing your body at all... just keeping your heart rate up, burning calories, and conditioning your joints.

Sensei
10-26-2006, 10:15 AM
Things you could try (most have already been said):
*skip an ME session or two
*get more sleep, food
*reduce volume of accessory/aux. exercises until you've built up your work capacity
*do 3x/week split
week 1 = ME SQ, ME BP, DE SQ
week 2 = DE SQ, DE BP, ME SQ
week 3 = ME BP, DE SQ, DE BP
week 4 = repeat cycle

NASAKYCHAIRMAN
10-26-2006, 10:21 AM
1. More rest or days off.

2. Increase nutritional supplement intake: :burger:
http://atlargenutrition.com/nutrition_detail.php?products_id=9

3. Cut back the volume & weight.


J.T. HALL
http://atlargenutrition.com/jt_hall.php

SW
10-26-2006, 10:23 AM
I'd say take a whole week off from lifting to reset yourself. Then eat a little more, drink 0 pop (this always provides me with energy) and go from 4 times per week to 3.

Vita
10-26-2006, 10:58 AM
drink 0 pop

this and not drinking booze have made a HUGE difference in my energy levels

NASAKYCHAIRMAN
10-26-2006, 11:15 AM
Also,

4. Use horse rubbing linament before your workout.

5. Ice your elbows/triceps after every heavy workout.


J.T. HALL
http://atlargenutrition.com/jt_hall.php

Darracq
10-26-2006, 12:16 PM
I think the wssb would be good for you.

RedSpikeyThing
10-26-2006, 12:26 PM
I think I will reduce it to 3 days/week, but still use the 4 day program:

Week 1: ME Lower, ME Upper, DE Lower
Week 2: DE Upper, ME Lower, ME Upper
Week 3: DE Lower, DE Upper, ME Lower
Week 4: ME Upper, DE Lower, DE Upper
Repeat

I will also reduce the load of accessory movements, namely on abs and lower back. Those two seem to always be sore/tired and are used the most in Westside.

I won't eat more ATM because I'm already gaining steadily and I don't want to be a fat power lifter ;)

I get as much sleep as I can, but I'm in college and it's midterm season. Enough said ;)

I'm in college, so drinking happens. I don't drink as often as most, once/week at MOST, usually once every 2 weeks.

I seldom drink pop and if I do it is usually diet. However, I do enjoy my coffee. I don't drink it after dinner because it messes up my sleep.

I ice my shoulders when they're sore, though I may consider icing more often.

Thanks again for the input!

K1M
10-26-2006, 06:25 PM
I won't eat more ATM because I'm already gaining steadily and I don't want to be a fat power lifter

You fear greatness!

RedSpikeyThing
10-26-2006, 07:00 PM
You fear greatness!

I'm a vain powerlifter....so sue me ;)

Sexybeast777
11-14-2006, 04:23 AM
Rest more! I always see this, people that are way overtraining! just take a couple of weeks off, and trust me, you'll come back stronger! Guaranteed!

RedSpikeyThing
11-14-2006, 09:22 AM
Yeah I did take a week off and it felt great. I'm surprised I needed to already because I was only doing the routine for about 8 weeks. I usually last longer than that.
I revised my routine and am going to take it a little bit easier.

betastas
11-14-2006, 12:09 PM
Regarding drinking at school, I hear you man. I tried something new this week and cut way back on alcohol at the bar on friday. My workout that weekend was amazing, much better than it used to be. Even 24+ hours after you get drunk, it still affects your performance... something to think about.

RedSpikeyThing
11-14-2006, 12:42 PM
Regarding drinking at school, I hear you man. I tried something new this week and cut way back on alcohol at the bar on friday. My workout that weekend was amazing, much better than it used to be. Even 24+ hours after you get drunk, it still affects your performance... something to think about.

I don't drink that often. And frankly, I enjoy my social life more than the extra bit of performance I get from not drinking. I also schedule my workouts around when I may be drinking ie I don't workout on saturday.

Not to flame you, but I would rather keep this thread away from "OMG drinking is the worst thing you can do!! it will kill you!" It's been debated to death around here...

Thanks for the input, though.

betastas
11-14-2006, 02:25 PM
Yeah, I agree with you on that part. I am not against getting sloshed now and then and having some fun. I'm just saying that I personally am learning the first hand effects it has on my training. I still go out to the bars and parties, I just don't drink as much as I used to. A small difference went a long way for me.
And yes, there are already a ton of old threads on alcohol, so I agree with steering it away.

How is the program progressing now?

RedSpikeyThing
11-14-2006, 09:15 PM
Yeah, I agree with you on that part. I am not against getting sloshed now and then and having some fun. I'm just saying that I personally am learning the first hand effects it has on my training. I still go out to the bars and parties, I just don't drink as much as I used to. A small difference went a long way for me.
And yes, there are already a ton of old threads on alcohol, so I agree with steering it away.

How is the program progressing now?

Started again on sunday. Felt pretty good. My chest and back felt a lot stronger. I played hockey on monday and did DE lower today....my hams are sore!!

I'll be maxing later this week...read my journal for updates. With any luck I'll break the 300 marker on DL :D

Sexybeast777
11-15-2006, 02:55 AM
Yeah I did take a week off and it felt great. I'm surprised I needed to already because I was only doing the routine for about 8 weeks. I usually last longer than that.
I revised my routine and am going to take it a little bit easier.
Awesome! Rest is always the weightlifter best friend! Too many people grossly overtrain