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View Full Version : Is my PRE-workout meal... ideal?



unstop
10-28-2006, 12:07 PM
I consume my pre-workout meal between 6:30am - 6:50am. My workout usually starts around 8:15am or so. This is also my first meal of the day. It breaks down like this:

Calories: 446
Protein: 52 grams
Carbs: 50 grams
Fat: 4 grams

The protein comes from 1 scoop of whey and 6 egg whites. The carbs come from 2 pieces of whole wheat bread, and 1 small red skinned potato.

Does everything look ok, or can it be better? Does the time between eating and lifting seem alright? Does the amount and source of carbs look good? The reason I'm posting this is because #1, I just want to make sure my pre-workout meal is, ya know, good. And #2, lately my workouts have been lacking something... like energy-wise. I'd like to know if my pre-workout meal has anything to do with that.

Oh, and if it matters at all, my post workout meal is a whey/dextrose shake (36 protein, 54 carbs), and I'm 5'10, 173lbs.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Holto
10-28-2006, 12:17 PM
What do you eat before sleeping?

Mr. D
10-28-2006, 01:03 PM
As for how much time before, you stated the energy level is not there. Have you tried not waiting as long before you workout?

unstop
10-28-2006, 01:25 PM
What do you eat before sleeping?
Tuna fish and peanuts is my last meal before bed.


As for how much time before, you stated the energy level is not there. Have you tried not waiting as long before you workout?
No I haven't. This timing of my pre workout meal and workout is the same as it's been for years now. Sometimes my energy level is fine, sometimes not. I just now started to wonder if there is anything I could/should change in this meal that would be beneficial energy-wise.

heathj
10-28-2006, 01:28 PM
I would suggest dropping the protein and switching the carb sources to something more simple.

Also eat it closer to your workout time...~30-40 minutes prior.

Built
10-28-2006, 01:37 PM
OR ... eat it the time that you do, but add in some fats to slow it down.

And try sipping a dilute whey/dex shake during your workout.

unstop
10-28-2006, 01:43 PM
I would suggest dropping the protein
Drop it how much? And, why?


and switching the carb sources to something more simple.
I thought simple carbs were mostly for post workout, and that complex were better pre workout? Something about them digesting slower, so they'll be more available throughout the duration of the workout, rather than right away which is how you want them post workout. Was this wrong?


Also eat it closer to your workout time...~30-40 minutes prior.
I've always wondered if there was too little or too much time between this meal and my workout. So 30-40 minutes prior would actually be a significant difference to 90 minutes prior?

And thanks for the replies, by the way.

Built
10-28-2006, 01:48 PM
Basically, you need an available pool of amino acids for your muscles, and an insulin response to blunt cortisol and allow your muscles to use glucose.

If you have a preworkout shake with fast carb and protein shortly before training, this will allow your body to have these available.

If you eat solid food an hour or so out, same thing - longer to digest, so the logistics are different.

If you eat more fat, it slows it down more.

It basically comes down to the logistics of getting the right stuff there on time.

unstop
10-28-2006, 01:57 PM
OR ... eat it the time that you do, but add in some fats to slow it down.
Built, so basically with what I'm currently eating pre-workout, the amount of time between the meal and the workout is just too much? If this is true, then I guess there are three things I can do...

1) Eat what I'm eating now at the same time, but add fat to slow it down (like you recommended).
2) Eat what I'm eating now, but just eat it closer to the time of my workout (30-40 mins prior like heathj recommended)
3) Or... if my carb sources should indeed be changed to more simple sources (like heathj recommends), change them and still eat the meal 30-40 mins prior to workout.

If this list is correct, then I'd probably prefer #2 or #3 only because adding some fat to this meal would mean adding more food, and the less food I have to eat first thing in the morning, the happier I'll be. :)

So then of #2 and #3, which would you recommend I do?

Thanks for the help.

Built
10-28-2006, 02:01 PM
Any of these strategies will work. Try the one that seems most comfortable; if that doesn't help, try the other.

And trust me on the dilute dex and whey DURING.

Are you taking any caffeine before you train? This helps me a LOT.

unstop
10-28-2006, 02:15 PM
Any of these strategies will work. Try the one that seems most comfortable; if that doesn't help, try the other.

And trust me on the dilute dex and whey DURING.

Are you taking any caffeine before you train? This helps me a LOT.

Ok, I think I got it now. But this leads me to another question. You mentioned comfort... put comfort aside. Actually, put any memory of my original question aside too. Let me start from scratch...

I workout in the morning, so my pre workout meal is also my first meal of the day. Knowing this, what would be the best/most beneficial pre-workout meal that you'd recommend I have, and how many minutes before my workout should I have it?

If I tried the dex/whey during, would anything need to change pre or post workout?

And about caffeine, I don't take any. I've thought about it (especially since I lift early), but I don't think I'll ever take any. I'm just one of "those" kinds of people that has never even tasted coffee.

Thanks again.

Built
10-28-2006, 02:23 PM
I hate coffee. I take pills. 200mg just before I train, usually with Ephedrine, 16mg.

Here's an article that might help you figure out the optimal strategy:
The Top 10 Post Workout Nutrition Myths, Dave Barr, http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=659666

He references this article: Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR. Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11440894&dopt=Abstract

Basically, if your pre-workout nutrition is dialled in, your post-workout nutrition isnít nearly as critical.

So what to eat? Well, it depends on how far ahead of your workout weíre talking. If itís shortly before, a protein shake with simple carbohydrate is quick to digest and quick to absorb. Itís also the pre-workout meal that was demonstrated to be more anabolic than the same meal consumed post-workout.

Now, if you consumed a mixed meal with a good healthy hit of carbohydrate an hour or more before you trained, you likely still have glucose and amino acids trickling into your blood stream post-workout, particularly if you sipped a small shake with malto/dex during your workout Ė remember, youíre damaging muscle tissue continuously while you train Ė itís not like your body waits for you to drop that last dumbbell to start spewing cortisol!

However, in choosing a solid mixed meal over a shake pre-workout, we now have an untested logistics problem for the breakdown and availability of these nutrients in your bloodstream Ė youíll probably have to experiment with your timing and your food choices to see what works the best for you.

unstop
10-28-2006, 04:45 PM
I hate coffee. I take pills. 200mg just before I train, usually with Ephedrine, 16mg.

Here's an article that might help you figure out the optimal strategy:
The Top 10 Post Workout Nutrition Myths, Dave Barr, http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=659666

He references this article: Am J Physiol Endocrinol Metab. 2001 Aug;281(2):E197-206. Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise. Tipton KD, Rasmussen BB, Miller SL, Wolf SE, Owens-Stovall SK, Petrini BE, Wolfe RR. Department of Surgery, University of Texas Medical Branch, Galveston, Texas 77550, USA.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11440894&dopt=Abstract

Basically, if your pre-workout nutrition is dialled in, your post-workout nutrition isnít nearly as critical.

So what to eat? Well, it depends on how far ahead of your workout weíre talking. If itís shortly before, a protein shake with simple carbohydrate is quick to digest and quick to absorb. Itís also the pre-workout meal that was demonstrated to be more anabolic than the same meal consumed post-workout.

Now, if you consumed a mixed meal with a good healthy hit of carbohydrate an hour or more before you trained, you likely still have glucose and amino acids trickling into your blood stream post-workout, particularly if you sipped a small shake with malto/dex during your workout Ė remember, youíre damaging muscle tissue continuously while you train Ė itís not like your body waits for you to drop that last dumbbell to start spewing cortisol!

However, in choosing a solid mixed meal over a shake pre-workout, we now have an untested logistics problem for the breakdown and availability of these nutrients in your bloodstream Ė youíll probably have to experiment with your timing and your food choices to see what works the best for you.
Thanks for the links, but... oh boy. That was helpful and confusing all at the same time. What I did pick up is the fact that the pre workout meal appears to be much more important than the post workout meal. That's news to me.

As for what my pre workout meal should be and how long before my workout I should have it... my confusion seems to have only increased. :scratch:

Just out of curiousity, what is your pre workout meal like?

Built
10-28-2006, 06:33 PM
Mine is a protein waffle, cottage cheese, and fruit, about an hour before I train.

unstop
10-28-2006, 07:54 PM
Mine is a protein waffle, cottage cheese, and fruit, about an hour before I train.
And that's it? Nothing immediately before? And then I assume you do whey/dex during and after as well?

Right now here's what I've come up with as a result of this post...

I can try eating my current meal (2 slices whole wheat bread, 1 small red skinned potato, 1 scoop whey, 6 egg whites) more like 30-45 minutes before the workout rather than 90 minutes before like I'm doing now. In doing this however, I'm still not sure if my carb food sources should stay the same or if I should, for example, replace the whole wheat bread with something less complex, like another potato or two?

Or, I can try eating it 90 mins before still (except minus the potato and whey) but then drink the scoop of whey with some (not sure how much?) dextrose like 15-30 minutes before the workout.

Any of these make any more sense than the other, or just any sense in general?

By the way, Built, I feel very annoying. Like if I was reading this post as someone else, I would think "What an annoying a-hole." Seriously, thanks for the help. And by all means, feel free to refer to me an annoying a-hole. It's justified. :nod:

Built
10-28-2006, 07:59 PM
And that's it? Nothing immediately before? And then I assume you do whey/dex during and after as well?
During, usually. After, rarely. I generally eat a sweet potato and chicken breast right after.



Right now here's what I've come up with as a result of this post...

I can try eating my current meal (2 slices whole wheat bread, 1 small red skinned potato, 1 scoop whey, 6 egg whites) more like 30-45 minutes before the workout rather than 90 minutes before like I'm doing now. In doing this however, I'm still not sure if my carb food sources should stay the same or if I should, for example, replace the whole wheat bread with something less complex, like another potato or two?

This will work fine, won't matter much about the carb choice in a mixed meal like this.



Or, I can try eating it 90 mins before still (except minus the potato and whey) but then drink the scoop of whey with some (not sure how much?) dextrose like 15-30 minutes before the workout.


You may prefer this option - best of both worlds.




Any of these make any more sense than the other, or just any sense in general?

By the way, Built, I feel very annoying. Like if I was reading this post as someone else, I would think "What an annoying a-hole." Seriously, thanks for the help. And by all means, feel free to refer to me an annoying a-hole. It's justified. :nod:

This made me giggle!

unstop
10-28-2006, 08:18 PM
This will work fine, won't matter much about the carb choice in a mixed meal like this.
This seems easy enough to accomplish. I'd basically just have to take the morning things I'd normally do after I eat and start doing them before I eat. That should move the meal into the 30-45 minutes before my workout range.


You may prefer this option - best of both worlds.
Yeah, this one seemed interesting. But, how much dextrose do you think I'd need if I tried this? And, how long before the workout would I drink it?


This made me giggle!
There ya go... consider that my really lame method of reciprocation.

Built
10-29-2006, 04:04 PM
Read Get Built issue 2 (http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=274) - I do a write up on dextrose/malto and workout shakes. It's in there.

Nicoman
10-29-2006, 04:48 PM
Good stuff here....just wanted to post in here to say that I read all this good info and incorporate it into my workouts.


Thanks all,

unstop
10-29-2006, 05:18 PM
Read Get Built issue 2 (http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=274) - I do a write up on dextrose/malto and workout shakes. It's in there.
I actually read that before my original post. I saw how much for post and during, but not pre. Unless I'm just not seeing it?

I was thinking of trying this tomorrow:

6:30am - 6 egg whites, 2 pieces whole wheat bread
Calories: 256
Protein: 32 grams
Carbs: 26 grams
Fat: 3 grams

7:40am - 20 grams dextrose, 1 scoop of whey
Calories: 165
Protein: 18 grams
Carbs: 22 grams
Fat: 1 gram

8:15am - Workout

But I (HUGE surprise :bang: ) still have some questions.

1) How does the above look?
2) If it does look good, is dextrose specifically a must, or can something like Gatorade or orange juice be used? I know these are a no-no post workout and really any other time of the day, but what about 30 mins prior to a workout?
3) In my fun filled weekend of pre-workout research, I keep coming across the term "blood sugar crash." Is that something I should be worried about with the pre-workout routine above?

And as usual, thanks for continuing to put up with my annoying posts with my numbered questions and other a-hole type nonsense. :bow:

Built
10-29-2006, 05:24 PM
1) Try it and see. You now have access to all the same research I do.

For pre, look to the post I made regarding "Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise".

2) Orange juice? Up to you. I don't like fruit juice, so I don't drink it. If the fructose isn't a problem for you, go for it.

3) no.

unstop
10-29-2006, 06:09 PM
1) Try it and see. You now have access to all the same research I do.

For pre, look to the post I made regarding "Timing of amino acid-carbohydrate ingestion alters anabolic response of muscle to resistance exercise".

2) Orange juice? Up to you. I don't like fruit juice, so I don't drink it. If the fructose isn't a problem for you, go for it.

3) no.
Got ya. I will try this tomorrow.

I have one last question that is probably borderline impossible for you to answer. Realistically, will there really be any noticeable difference between the pre workout meal I was previously eating 90 minutes before my workout, and what I'll be doing tomorrow?

I realize the only way to answer that question would be to try it and see for myself. I will do just that. I'm just not sure what exactly I should expect to, ya know, "see." Will I be standing there before the 3rd set of my 4th exercise thinking "Hey, I'm usually slightly more tired by this point."

Built
10-29-2006, 06:18 PM
Find out and post back.

unstop
10-29-2006, 06:26 PM
Find out and post back.
Will do. Thanks again for the help.

unstop
10-30-2006, 08:27 AM
I was thinking of trying this tomorrow:

6:30am - 6 egg whites, 2 pieces whole wheat bread
Calories: 256
Protein: 32 grams
Carbs: 26 grams
Fat: 3 grams

7:40am - 20 grams dextrose, 1 scoop of whey
Calories: 165
Protein: 18 grams
Carbs: 22 grams
Fat: 1 gram

8:15am - Workout
Well, I just got home from the gym and I... I dunno. It's hard to really tell if anything was any different, but I can say for sure that nothing positive came out of it. If I noticed anything different at all, it would probably be negative. I have no idea why that would be, but it be.

Any ideas?

Built
10-30-2006, 08:41 AM
Try sipping it DURING, instead of simply chugging it before.

unstop
10-30-2006, 08:49 AM
Try sipping it DURING, instead of simply chugging it before.
Sip dextrose AND whey during? It would need to last for a while that way, and my whey says "drink immediately" after mixing. Unless of course that's just BS?

Built
10-31-2006, 10:15 PM
It's just bs.

Read "get built" issue 2. http://www.wannabebig.com/author.php?author=54

Altephor
10-31-2006, 10:44 PM
Built, that dilute whey and dextrose is in water? (bleeeeh)

How dilute are we talkin here?

Built
10-31-2006, 11:28 PM
It's in "Get Built", issue 2.

You can make it regular strength and take alternate sips with water. That's how I do it.