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View Full Version : What is The Limit Then????????????????????



levronefan
11-05-2006, 03:58 PM
i know this question has been asked before, but reading this post about bolton hitting 1000 lb deadlift REALLY makes me wonder. where is it going to stop? honestly? people say that it can always be broken and that is true but by how much and an estimate???

do you guys think it is possible to get to 1000 lb RAW bench?
1500 lb raw squat
1500 lb raw deadlift??



are these numbers too far off?? honestly, about where do you think it will stop or is there no way of knowing???

aside from gene altering that is.....

Jinkies
11-05-2006, 04:00 PM
I don't think its possible.

But maybe someone just hasn't done it yet.

chris mason
11-05-2006, 05:09 PM
The limit is pretty much there without an alteration in equipment or gear. I doubt we will see much more.

As for the raw limit I think it is in the 900s.

Stumprrp
11-05-2006, 07:58 PM
IMO, people naturally are not as strong as they were years ago (anderson, cyr, ect) back then it was just the person and odd heavy objects, tons of food, crazy lifting, as for a 1000 raw bench, i dont that is gonna happen anytime soon, same for the deadlift or squat.

i know chris is a supporter of the old timers to, maybe we should take a hint? eat a ton of eggs, beef, and cheese, drink a gallon of milk a day, get your other vitamins, and lift really really heavy things frequently.

WBBIRL
11-05-2006, 08:08 PM
The body was designed to be capable of certaint things, a 1000 pound raw benchpress probably isnt one of them.

The body just isnt designed to move those kinds of #'s, joints and things like that just give up.

deeder
11-05-2006, 08:45 PM
Selective breeding people! If we start now maybe in 10 generations or so we could get someone who deadlifted 1500lbs raw :p

betastas
11-05-2006, 08:52 PM
I wonder if a powerlifting competitor needs to be a human...

*trains a gorilla*.

Jinkies
11-05-2006, 09:23 PM
Gorillas would have squat so easy, those little legs can definately hit a parallel easy.


Good luck putting a suit on one though.

Guido
11-05-2006, 09:39 PM
I don't think we'll ever see more than an 800 raw bench, 1,100 raw squat, or 1,000 raw deadlift. I think that is about the limit of strength for natural humans i.e. without gene altering or the like.

Jinkies
11-05-2006, 09:47 PM
I don't think we'll ever see more than an 800 raw bench, 1,100 raw squat, or 1,000 raw deadlift. I think that is about the limit of strength for natural humans i.e. without gene altering or the like.


Those are going to be my goals then. Strive for the top and hope for the best.

ArchAngel777
11-05-2006, 10:01 PM
The sky is the limit... As we figure out more better training programs and suppliments (legal), I am sure the maximums will continue to go up, though at a very slow rate. 50 years from now, I am pretty sure Botan's 1003 DL will be broken... By how much? Maybe only a few pounds, but in time... Records are meant to be broke and all of them eventually are if the sport continues on with the same rules and regulations.

Nik00117
11-05-2006, 11:06 PM
I don't believe there is a limit, as technology progresses we will lift heavier,wheater it be more natural or unnatural.

1,500 squat possible
1,500 Bench possible
1,100 dead lift, possible.

KingJustin
11-05-2006, 11:27 PM
Without some form of super-extreme breeding, a complete breakthrough in supplements, or greatly improved equipment, I think the numbers that are being pushed now are relatively close to where they are going to be for decades, maybe even centuries. I don't think any of the lifts will be improved by more than about 10%.

But hey, what the hell do I know?

Fuzzy
11-06-2006, 03:06 AM
It can be done...

If I become a pro powerlifter.

Than what the hell is their to stop me from a half tonne dead lift????

Doubt, fear, and not enough detrmination...

I want to learn to overcome those every time I step into the gym. So that, if one day, Im standing there, my bare hands clasping the cold bar, the only thing I will be thinking is 'this will happen cause I want it to'

betastas
11-06-2006, 07:39 AM
Glad you want it that bad fuzzy. Determination will take you so far, then physics and biology take over.

Given that humans have been getting taller and heavier on average over the last several thousand years (take a look at medieval beds in Europe, they were short), I believe that each successive generation will have a better chance at breaking previous records. However, natural selection doesn't play much of a role nowadays, so I could be wrong.

Guido
11-06-2006, 08:13 AM
I don't believe there is a limit, as technology progresses we will lift heavier,wheater it be more natural or unnatural.

1,500 squat possible
1,500 Bench possible
1,100 dead lift, possible.Sure, the equipped records will continue to go up as technology improves, but their are limits of completely raw, natural, genetically unaltered human strength. It's limited by our body structure, hormones, lifespan, and bodily processes. Unless those change through continued genetic improvement of the species over many hundreds of years, as betastas alluded to, the limits will only increase incrementally, and at an exponentially slower and slower rate.

The raw deadlift record hasn't improved in decades. The raw squat record is also many years old. It took 15-20 years for Mendelsohn to finally break the raw bench record set by Ted Arcidi. It will likely be many more before his is broken, unless he does it himself.

The fact is, raw lifting isn't contested as much anymore, and unless it makes a comeback, we may never know the potential of true human strength as demonstrated by the truly elite powerlifting community.

Nik00117
11-06-2006, 09:56 AM
I met those numbers as equiped.

Maybe we'll discover a plant which makes us super human, and be able to do insane deads...

IDK, but I do not believe it is right or proper to put a limit on what is possible of humans to achieve.

SaVvY
11-06-2006, 10:10 AM
i know this question has been asked before, but reading this post about bolton hitting 1000 lb deadlift REALLY makes me wonder. where is it going to stop? honestly? people say that it can always be broken and that is true but by how much and an estimate???

do you guys think it is possible to get to 1000 lb RAW bench?
1500 lb raw squat
1500 lb raw deadlift??



are these numbers too far off?? honestly, about where do you think it will stop or is there no way of knowing???

aside from gene altering that is.....
im not sure anyones ever actually squatted 1000 raw, some have done it with belt an wraps though (mark henry being one), an this pull is not raw either, an no 1000 bench has been raw - it dont really change a whole lot as far as what humans can do, more so what the gear can do (not that andy is not the best deadlifter in the world)

as far as limits go, ***** limits, just train

diesel_dan
11-06-2006, 12:56 PM
Another thing to think about is people that have done amazing feats when the situation occurred being it life or death etc. For example, an old lady lifting a car to save her husband. I've seen one of a guy lifting a helicopter up off one of it's sides so his trapped buddy could get out from underneath it. Of course both of those feats are contributed to adrenaline. But imagine if we were able to tap into that. So you take a guy benching 500 raw that some how taps into his adrenaline, I can only imagine what he could do.

WBBIRL
11-06-2006, 01:55 PM
Gear is the curve ball here, and im not talking roids so much as shirts,suits,wraps , and belt.

People have been known to get tremendous gains out of a shirt (I suspect that I would be one of them) while others get mediocre 10-30 pounds gains over their unequipped 1RMs. So if some guy with freak triceps, shoulders and lats finds the right shirt and the right people to train with the guy could easily wind up benching 200-300+ pounds more then he would have the ole fashion way.

Max Thunder
11-06-2006, 02:47 PM
What if some freak like Andre the Giant had been trained nowadays and better fed? His hands are huge. At a certain period, he was weighting 540 lbs, and that was without looking like a fat blob.

SaVvY
11-06-2006, 02:52 PM
What if some freak like Andre the Giant had been trained nowadays and better fed? His hands are huge. At a certain period, he was weighting 540 lbs, and that was without looking like a fat blob.
he was obese at that weight, you must have got some bad info

andre would be too tall to pull a big weight, he was 7 foot 4

..but i understand what your getting at - some people can take it a lot further than others, however andy bolton is exactly that guy, his first ever deadlift was 300 kilos

betastas
11-06-2006, 04:35 PM
Another thing to think about is people that have done amazing feats when the situation occurred being it life or death etc. For example, an old lady lifting a car to save her husband. I've seen one of a guy lifting a helicopter up off one of it's sides so his trapped buddy could get out from underneath it. Of course both of those feats are contributed to adrenaline. But imagine if we were able to tap into that. So you take a guy benching 500 raw that some how taps into his adrenaline, I can only imagine what he could do.


Some of that is true, and a lot of it is rumour and myth. We have all heard of "the old lady" or "the mom" who pulled the car off their "husband/child/parent/etc.", but it is always something heard, never reported. Adrenaline is important, but there is still a maximum mechanical load that a body can lift, push or pull.

WBBIRL
11-06-2006, 04:45 PM
Bolton is a 1 in a trillion kind of person... first time EVER lifting he deadlifted 600 and squatted 500.

SkinnySadMan
11-06-2006, 05:22 PM
Those nanotechnology army suits that allows soldiers to jump 20 feet in the air...

Give it 25 years. They'll have them in weightlifting equipment. :D

-Superman-
11-06-2006, 05:46 PM
i know this question has been asked before, but reading this post about bolton hitting 1000 lb deadlift REALLY makes me wonder. where is it going to stop? honestly? people say that it can always be broken and that is true but by how much and an estimate???

do you guys think it is possible to get to 1000 lb RAW bench?
1500 lb raw squat
1500 lb raw deadlift??



are these numbers too far off?? honestly, about where do you think it will stop or is there no way of knowing???

aside from gene altering that is.....

You need someone like Mark Henry but one that didn't take for granted the potential like Mark Henry did. If anyone thinks otherwise, then look at his career in the WWE after winning worlds strongest man and breaking just about every record known to man including big dumbbell curl.:hump:

Adam
11-06-2006, 06:01 PM
andre would be too tall to pull a big weight, he was 7 foot 4

just an FYI
Gary Heisey held the deadlift record for a number of years just recently, at 925lbs, and he was 6'6"!

Levantar
11-06-2006, 09:20 PM
I don't believe there is a limit, as technology progresses we will lift heavier,wheater it be more natural or unnatural.

1,500 squat possible
1,500 Bench possible
1,100 dead lift, possible.
hmmmm.....1500 pounds being held up with the ligaments and bones from a human elbow and hand? I would have to look this up to see if ones body can handle this much weight.

Jinkies
11-06-2006, 09:24 PM
The body is NOT made to handle it.

Anyones do single ply suits really make a difference?

I might need to get one and start getting used to it

Nik00117
11-06-2006, 10:35 PM
1,500 Lbs being held up with a squat suit believable.

I know some people who don't know world records that would doubt 1,100 in squat could be done.

Frankly I feel with each generation we will meet a new freak of nature. Look at Mark Henry, he wasted a lot of his career losing weight. Imagine if he would of simply kept lifting? As a different poster said he broke world records, and as I understand it he broke the deadlilft world record with one month of training.

Imagine if someone such as him just as strong as him trained dedicated.

Fuzzy
11-07-2006, 01:13 AM
Look back... not even a thousand years, but a hundered years.

Think of the advancements in little over a century

What could happen in another century?

Same thing.

The impossible today... it will be the warm up of tommorow.

K1M
11-07-2006, 01:21 AM
Look back... not even a thousand years, but a hundered years.

Think of the advancements in little over a century

What could happen in another century?

Same thing.

The impossible today... it will be the warm up of tommorow.

Well.. no. The body is only capable of so much, and unless there isn't some major breakthrough deadlifting equipment created to help lifters, I would think around 1200lbs is going to be the limit, and that isn't going to be for a LOOOOOONG time. It's a decreasing exponential curve.

Think of the 100m sprint. The world record is like 8 seconds or something. By your logic, we'll one day be doing it in 6 seconds. I'm sorry, but barring some kind of evolutionary change in the biomechanics of the human body, these things aren't gonna improve much, if at all, for a very long time.

I read your post above saying that you will DL 1000+ lbs one day. Do you think that you have the genetics optimal to the deadlift? Are you prepared to do an absolute ton of drugs to get there? These aren't questions a 14 yr should be thinking about, but they are what's needed to be the best in the world at an athletic level.

Fuzzy
11-07-2006, 02:24 AM
Purely philisophical...

Did people not say the same thing along time ago???

'Humanity has reached its peak'

Why does every generation think it is the best, and the last, the greatest achievers...

Because humanity likes to look back and say 'wow, were alot better' alot more than 'we have so much more that we can do...'

philosophy... lol

K1M
11-07-2006, 02:51 AM
Purely philisophical...

Did people not say the same thing along time ago???

'Humanity has reached its peak'

Why does every generation think it is the best, and the last, the greatest achievers...

Because humanity likes to look back and say 'wow, were alot better' alot more than 'we have so much more that we can do...'

philosophy... lol

Eh, dude, I've study philosophy quite extensively in the past. Did I say that this generation is 'the best?' No. But I did say that the improvements that will made in lifting etc are going to be nowhere near as great as you are alluding to.

1000lb+ is a ****ING HEAVY weight for the human hand to grasp - and I will state here, at this point of human evolution, that no human hand will have the grip strength required to lift very much more. That is why machines were created; in essence, to do what we cannot.

Fuzzy
11-07-2006, 03:05 AM
Ok, Im not disagreeing, just arguing for the sake of arguin lol.

Im not alluding to anything, but anything is possible, adnuntill we can se the future, then you never know..

Guido
11-07-2006, 07:51 AM
Think of the 100m sprint. The world record is like 8 seconds or something.Actually, try 9.77 seconds. The record was 9.95 in 1968. So even with all the new knowledge of training techniques, nutrition, drugs, etc. the record has gone down less than 2 tenths of a second in almost 40 years. I'd be surprised if anyone breaks 9.70 seconds in another 40 years. Nobody will ever break 9.5 seconds. It's just not physiologically possible.

Guido
11-07-2006, 07:56 AM
Im not alluding to anything, but anything is possible, adnuntill we can se the future, then you never know..Not anything is possible. Is it possible for you to fit into a jar of babyfood? No. Can you fly under your own power without the aid of any mechanical devices? No. Can you crush a diamond and turn it into coal with your bare hands? No. There are realistic limits to what can be accomplished.

I love your 14 year old optimism, though. :p

betastas
11-07-2006, 08:09 AM
Fuzzy, you need to learn some things about the body before you state that "anything is possible".

Is a 15,000,000 ton deadlift possible by a human? Hell no.
Will it ever be? Hell no, not by the definition of what a human is by our current standards.

It's good to see that you are optimistic, but you are also greatly misled. K1M is correct, there is a finite limit that the human body can achieve. As a human approaches that limit, it becomes exponentially harder to maintain and to proceed to a higher level. Not linearly.

The human body may or may not further evolve due to evolution. Advances in medical technology have prevented inferior genetics from being passed from the human gene pool. No, I am not asserting that one person is better than another, but that the genes possessed by one person make them a more suitable candidate for survival. Stronger, faster, healthier, bigger, etc. Medical care and society prevents people who are sickly or feeble from dying, and so their genetics are passed into their offsprings. The lack of a weeding process will have genes that are less desirable circulating throughout the population. This is a simplified view, but unless we start selectively breeding the strongest men and women in the world, there likely wont be any significant changes in humanity.

Stumprrp
11-07-2006, 08:37 AM
i personally think nothing really has changed much people! what is the record raw bench like 705? 50 years ago it was still in the 600's, kaz did 660, anderson could do 6+. how about the raw squat? guys back in the day did more then the current 800 or so by that young man, we all know anderson squatted 900 raw regulary. and the deadlift well bolton was equipped for 1000 but thats just crazy.

stuff isnt much different, today theres just more roids, more equipment, and less fire then there was back in the day.

sorry lol i just love old school training, the people, everything about it.

-Superman-
11-07-2006, 03:18 PM
1,500 Lbs being held up with a squat suit believable.

I know some people who don't know world records that would doubt 1,100 in squat could be done.

Frankly I feel with each generation we will meet a new freak of nature. Look at Mark Henry, he wasted a lot of his career losing weight. Imagine if he would of simply kept lifting? As a different poster said he broke world records, and as I understand it he broke the deadlilft world record with one month of training.

Imagine if someone such as him just as strong as him trained dedicated.

Exactly, as far a powerlifting goes, Mark Henry could of been the best for years after he retired. He totally wasted what genetics gave him. He only trained a month for most competitions and still crushed records. He is the epitome of a person never reaching his/her potential.

:(

nhlfan
11-07-2006, 08:31 PM
..Of course both of those feats are contributed to adrenaline. But imagine if we were able to tap into that.
Adrenaline doesn't change the way your tendons, ligaments, and bones work. Injuries would be more common if we ever did that.

Sexybeast777
11-08-2006, 02:36 AM
There is no limit

Fuzzy
11-08-2006, 02:49 AM
Ow, ofcourse I know what is the impossible

But that wont stop me from continuosly bashing at the wall that holds me back.

Dont tell someone something is impossible, because when limits and boundaries are set, the basic human desire to be more ends.

14 year old enthusiasm rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!

Guido
11-08-2006, 08:31 AM
Dont tell someone something is impossible, because when limits and boundaries are set, the basic human desire to be more ends.
Why not? If it is impossible, it will save them a lot of time and pain.

There's a quote: "To a beginner, possibilities are endless. To an expert, possibilities are few." I think it refers to how the more one learns about something, the more one learns to weed out those ideas that are doomed to fail, revealing only the best options.

Sidior
11-08-2006, 08:37 AM
Ow, ofcourse I know what is the impossible

But that wont stop me from continuosly bashing at the wall that holds me back.

Dont tell someone something is impossible, because when limits and boundaries are set, the basic human desire to be more ends.

14 year old enthusiasm is annoying!!!!

edited for accuracy

Adam
11-08-2006, 05:30 PM
How many more Mark Henrey's are there on the planet?
There might be 50 naturally massive and strong people that just don't train. If they did train they 'could' be much stronger than the top powerlifters.

All I'm saying is that there can be lots of untapped potential walking on the planet right NOW. Someone could just have a perfect build for deadlifting, benching, etc.
A bad example would be someone in a poor russian town. For years Russia has had lots and lots of the top strength athletes. There could be some people that simple do not have access to training facilities.

As to the person saying that the human hand can't hold much more than 1,000lbs I say why not.
I have small hands myself and have held well over 500lbs chalkless and over 700lbs with chalk. Imagine what a big set of paws and doing grip training could do.

Chris686
11-08-2006, 10:19 PM
IMO, people naturally are not as strong as they were years ago (anderson, cyr, ect)

Explain why this could be considered true. (I'm aware it's your opinion.)

Humans aren't just going to become naturally less powerful as time goes by. There's no logical reasoning behind it.

Though I suppose it's possible for your average human to become weaker taking into account the removal of natural selection, but your every day guy is going to be just as strong as the every day man of 100 years ago.

If anything, they'd be stronger considering as a whole there is not as much malnutrition as there was even 100 years ago, and training techniques have been more refined.

That's my little rant for the day :)

Guido
11-09-2006, 08:09 AM
I think Stump was referring to the average person.

chris mason
11-09-2006, 04:18 PM
Purely philisophical...

Did people not say the same thing along time ago???

'Humanity has reached its peak'

Why does every generation think it is the best, and the last, the greatest achievers...

Because humanity likes to look back and say 'wow, were alot better' alot more than 'we have so much more that we can do...'

philosophy... lol

Fuzzy, the only real advancements in lifting in the last 5 decades have been due to drugs and powerlifting gear (suits, shirts etc.). So, your statment is not really accurate.

If you would like proof of my statement I can provide it.

Stumprrp
11-09-2006, 04:48 PM
yeah i was, many old timers were just strong naturally from the hard labor.

not to mention RAW, alot of the old school lifters put todays to shame, anderson, cyr, peoples.

WBBIRL
11-09-2006, 05:04 PM
There is no limit


There most certainly is a human limit, its silly to think their isn't.

SkinnySadMan
11-09-2006, 06:30 PM
The only option in the future is genetic engineering.

We should evolve into protoss.

magicman531
11-10-2006, 02:34 PM
Look back... not even a thousand years, but a hundered years.

Think of the advancements in little over a century

What could happen in another century?

Same thing.

The impossible today... it will be the warm up of tommorow.


What advancements took place between say 1500 to 1800? That's 300 years. The last 100 years is very rare. The amount of change is incredible. Who's to say it will keep growing at that rate? Maybe it will plateau. Another factor is your genes. Not everyone is capable of squatting 1000 pounds or benching 600 pounds.

betastas
11-10-2006, 02:58 PM
The only option in the future is genetic engineering.

We should evolve into protoss.

If we had those kickass reverse knees, we'd probably have much higher deadlifts and squats.

Chris686
11-10-2006, 10:58 PM
If we had those kickass reverse knees, we'd probably have much higher deadlifts and squats.

I lol'd.

mickyjune26
11-10-2006, 11:01 PM
yeah.

jed
11-11-2006, 12:52 AM
We should evolve into protoss.
I bet a marine in the standard body suit could squat more than a zealot could

levronefan
11-11-2006, 07:33 AM
Watch what you say
This won't be tolerated

Foggy06
11-11-2006, 08:30 AM
It can be done...

If I become a pro powerlifter.

Than what the hell is their to stop me from a half tonne dead lift????

Doubt, fear, and not enough detrmination...

I want to learn to overcome those every time I step into the gym. So that, if one day, Im standing there, my bare hands clasping the cold bar, the only thing I will be thinking is 'this will happen cause I want it to'



haha 'this will happen cause I want it to' yea thats what all propowerlifters say to themselves before they lift....they dont even train.didnt you know that?

Adam
11-11-2006, 05:18 PM
This thread is finished.