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ShockBoxer
11-07-2006, 10:47 AM
Getting the obvious and logical 'if you zonk out after eating high carbs at lunch, don't' out of the way...

Anyone know of any good tricks to speed blood sugar normalization and wake up? Normally I eat some peanuts and/or do some bodyweight squats (and both work) but I'm just curious if there is a more efficient way. It's hard (well, I've never successfully pulled it off) for me to get a thousand calories at lunch without including things like potatoes or bread.

RedSpikeyThing
11-07-2006, 01:15 PM
It's hard (well, I've never successfully pulled it off) for me to get a thousand calories at lunch without including things like potatoes or bread.

I don't have advice other than "don't eat the carbs", but....

Why is 1000 calories so hard? 1 cup peanuts + 2 cups 2% milk = ~1000 calories.

ShockBoxer
11-07-2006, 02:19 PM
I already eat a cup of peanuts in a day. Don't particularly want to eat a second cup. I'm also supposed to avoid dairy as much as possible.

It's only at lunch where high carbs affect me. I don't konk out on date night where I've been known to eat in excess of 300 grams of carbs - pasta and cheesecake, most of a medium pizza, everything in grabbing range at a chinese buffet, etc.

Holto
11-07-2006, 03:17 PM
So potatoes and bread are making you crash?

What exactly are you eating???

For sure try adding more fat and more fiber to the meal. Take fiber capsules if you have to.

ShockBoxer
11-07-2006, 09:04 PM
Store made fresh chicken pot pies, chicken breast with macaroni and cheese, one of those super-sized pizza slices, fish and potato wedges, pre-made 12 inch club subs... whatever is freshest prepared and catches my attention at the deli at the closest grocery store. I like hot lunches. The deli uses trans-fat free oil so I don't worry about how much or how little fat there is but I always assume it's quite a bit.

Fiber pills are harsh on my stomach. Why they have a different effect than the raisin bran I eat daily, I don't know.

teaturtle
11-07-2006, 09:49 PM
Store made fresh chicken pot pies, chicken breast with macaroni and cheese, one of those super-sized pizza slices, fish and potato wedges, pre-made 12 inch club subs... whatever is freshest prepared and catches my attention at the deli at the closest grocery store. I like hot lunches. The deli uses trans-fat free oil so I don't worry about how much or how little fat there is but I always assume it's quite a bit.

Fiber pills are harsh on my stomach. Why they have a different effect than the raisin bran I eat daily, I don't know.



..You've made me hungry now. :burger:

Holto
11-08-2006, 09:57 AM
Store made fresh chicken pot pies, chicken breast with macaroni and cheese, one of those super-sized pizza slices, fish and potato wedges, pre-made 12 inch club subs... whatever is freshest prepared and catches my attention at the deli at the closest grocery store. I like hot lunches. The deli uses trans-fat free oil so I don't worry about how much or how little fat there is but I always assume it's quite a bit.

Fiber pills are harsh on my stomach. Why they have a different effect than the raisin bran I eat daily, I don't know.


Perhaps it is your overall diet that is responsible for your crashing. Someone with high resting levels of insulin is more succeptible to crashing.

Do you track your diet?

Do you happen to know total calories and a macro breakdown?

ShockBoxer
11-08-2006, 10:20 AM
Not as religiously as I used to because I basically eat the same thing every day. I don't even try and track lunch. Here's a typical day:

Somewhere between 5 and 8 am: Two scoops ON whey in water (238 cals, 2 fat, 6 carb, 48 prot)
9-10: Two cups of raisin bran (372 cal, 3/94/11)
12-2: Lunch
1-3: 1/2 cup honey roasted peanuts (can't stand regular) (480 cals, 38/18/17)
Then in no particular order over the evening two more scoops of whey, a 113 gram unbreaded chicken burger (130 cal, 4/3/20), and another half cup of peanuts.

Lifting days sees the second shake taken post-wo with 500 ml of soymilk.

breakdown, not including lunch, is:
2048 cals, 87 fat, 165 carb, 163 protein.

Lifting days get to add 300 cal, 8 fat, 46 carbs, 12 protein.

(And I take a multi-vitamin in the morning to make up for the horrific lack of vegetation in my life.)

I'm never tired in the evening no matter what I eat.

RedSpikeyThing
11-08-2006, 10:47 AM
Is there anyway you can eat more in the morning and less at lunch? Throw some oatmeal and a banana into your shake, that way you don' have to eat ao much later.

betastas
11-08-2006, 11:41 AM
How dull is your job?
Do you carb crash after lunch on weekends?

ShockBoxer
11-08-2006, 12:07 PM
Heh. My job is very dull (network administrator as well as all around slave to the accounting department) and the office is quite hot. It's a bad combination on a full belly, as is.

I don't really *have* lunch on the weekend, per se. I load up on oatmeal and whey around 9, hit the gym around 11, come home to a shake at 1, and sometime quite a bit later will make a few sandwiches or something. 80% of my carbs are eaten first thing in the morning on a weekend, provided I don't go out for dinner with my friends.

Vapour Trails
11-08-2006, 01:01 PM
We we never designed to eat as much starch as we do and that's the main problem. What is your body supposed to do with so much quick energy while most of us don't have physical jobs requiring it.

Even if it is a "low GI" carb, eating a couple hundred grams equals a huge glycemic load, which is the most important measure. The answer, eat more fat and fiber and stop with all the starch.

ShockBoxer
11-08-2006, 01:21 PM
Coming up through history the human race has eaten practically nothing BUT starchy carbs... fruits, nuts, berries, roots, and later on grains, breads, potatoes. Meat was awesome when you could get it. If anything we eat more protein and especially fat than we ever have, not starch. There are guys on here who eat no less that three times the amount of carbs in a day as I do (as part of twice the calories, of course) to presumably no ill effect.

I already get well over a hundred grams of fat a day. This is in defiance of doctors orders (fat is harder to digest and I have digestion issues). There has to be a better way than dropping a plate of potatoes for an equivilent (calorically speaking) amount of virgin olive oil spread on a salad.

shootermcgavin7
11-08-2006, 02:17 PM
Coming up through history the human race has eaten practically nothing BUT starchy carbs... fruits, nuts, berries, roots

These are not starchy carbs, although you are correct, this was consumed for the first few million years of human history.


, and later on grains, breads, potatoes.

These ARE starchy carbs, and evolved as our society became more agriculturally-inclined (~10,000 years ago).

Right or wrong, this is the anecdotal argument used to support the Paleo-diet and its brethren.

betastas
11-08-2006, 08:32 PM
shootermcgavin is correct.

The human body can handle high starch. Doesn't mean it should.

ShockBoxer
11-08-2006, 09:15 PM
The fun part is if I followed the guidelines laid out for me I'd eat nothing but starchy carbs and minimal protein. My prescribed diet was 2000 calories consisting of 400 grams of carbs, 50 grams of protein, and as little fat as possible to fill out the rest. I can't imagine how wrecked I'd feel then (basically munching on low sugar cereal, enriched white bread with lettuce and tomato on it, and the occassional well ground nut all day).

Holto
11-08-2006, 09:46 PM
You could be crashing because of leaky gut syndrome. There are supplements you can take to fix it. Natural Factors makes one called Revital-X. PM me and I'll look something up in your area.

ShockBoxer
11-09-2006, 04:57 AM
Makes sense. A friend of mine who has a degree in microbiology and immunology has always made it her point to insist that my symptoms are too wide spread and random and most importantly not reproducable at will to be anything but bacterial in nature. I just put it down to all aspiring doctors linking everything to their field of expertise from what I've seen. Still, why lunch and not dinner?

Holto
11-09-2006, 04:38 PM
Good point. If it was leaky gut it would likely be all your meals that would do that to you.

Have you ever supplemented with pro-biotics?

ShockBoxer
11-09-2006, 09:25 PM
No. Said microbiologist friend has mentioned them once or twice in passing. A little off the beaten path so I haven't really looked into them.

Holto
11-09-2006, 09:29 PM
Do some reading here:

http://renewlife.com/

I read both of the founders first few books. They deal exclusively with the digestive track.

Also this may sound odd but do you supp with fish oil?

ShockBoxer
11-09-2006, 09:37 PM
Heh. Fish oil caps are now pretty much two years old and never opened.

Site's bookmarked. Looks interesting if I can find a local distributer.

Holto
11-09-2006, 09:39 PM
The only location in your body with more nerve cells than your intestines is your brain.

Science is now calling the small intestine the second brain. You really need that fish oil.

I'm willing to bet the effects of that fish oil + probiotics could be just the ticket.

Do you supp with fiber?

ShockBoxer
11-13-2006, 06:08 AM
I do, but not as much as I should. It's expensive (17 bucks a month or so). I typically save it for days where I know my diet isn't going to give me 25-30 grams.

Holto
11-13-2006, 10:39 AM
I do, but not as much as I should. It's expensive (17 bucks a month or so). I typically save it for days where I know my diet isn't going to give me 25-30 grams.

I get my pysyllium husks for around $4-5/lb.

ShockBoxer
11-13-2006, 10:54 AM
Psyllium makes me ill (if it's the one I'm thinking about... it's the one in metamucil, isn't it?). I use Benefiber, which is partially hydrolyzed guar gum, and it works really well for me... it's just pricey.

Holto
11-13-2006, 01:26 PM
Psyllium makes me ill (if it's the one I'm thinking about... it's the one in metamucil, isn't it?). I use Benefiber, which is partially hydrolyzed guar gum, and it works really well for me... it's just pricey.

Sounds like you have a pretty tricky problem to deal with.

Have you been diagnosed?

ShockBoxer
11-14-2006, 05:08 AM
Not definitively, no. Frankly, the seven doctors and five specialists I've been to have been at a loss.

They'd like to say a severe case of standard IBS but it doesn't result in a loss of energy and periodic unconsciousness. They'd like to say Crohn's but a colonoscopy and barium enema show no structural damage. They'd like to say diabetes even but there's no indication my pancreas is difficient in insulin production. They'd like to say dumping syndrome, and consider it the best bet, but eating high sugary carbs on an empty stomach doesn't trigger it reliably enough.

I've had my pain and unconsciousness episodes triggered by a glass of water, which literally had one doctor pulling on his hair. The last time I lost consciousness, a few months ago, I hadn't eaten anything for five or six hours (normally they happen within an hour of eating something), and it was unaccompanied by the extreme levels of abdominal pain. It broke all the 'rules' I had devised for recognizing my attacks and getting somewhere safe/comfortable to lose consciousness (I did at a bus stop in spring once and nearly died of hypothermia as people stepped over/around me).

Tricky doesn't begin to describe it. It affects me daily and has influeced everything done in my adult life. I can't drive until I'm 'seizure free' (they checked for epilepsy, brain tumors, and several types of cancer as well) for seven years, even if I did have peripheral vision on my left side. It washed me out of the reserves (lost consciousness in the field. Can't have that... if I did it in a combat situation people could die) so I couldn't go regular forces.

It well and truly sucks.

Holto
11-14-2006, 02:20 PM
It well and truly sucks.

My lord.

I'm so sorry to hear all this.

When allopathic medicine fails it's time for natural medicine. I strongly recommend consulting a Naturopathic physician.

ShockBoxer
11-14-2006, 04:40 PM
My girlfriend has been begging me to for years. It's the only thing we fight about. Short of it is that I'm sure they can find something to alleviate the symptoms - a brand of drug called Dicetel did that for me a decade ago when I was still covered by my parent's drug plan - I want a treatment for the root. Dicetel took the edge off of food, and that was great and all, but it didn't stop the railroad spike through the abdomen, the cold sweat, the collapse and subsequent shock of my major attacks.

You can't treat what is not known. The last doctor put me on metaclorpomide as a wide area carpet bombing solution. I was completely pain free and maybe it would have prevented my collapses ... I'll never know because it shorted out my central nervous system, made me suicidal and delusional, altered my judgement (I would have stopped taking the damned things otherwise, but my wife at the time was adamant that I keep taking them and I couldn't resist), and quickly led to a gibbering nervous break down. Practically all I could do for two weeks afterwards was sit in a chair and drool and rock. It was weeks after that before my attention span returned enough to read a novel.

So while I have nothing against a naturopathic treatment my skepticism that they would do any more than alleviate/mask the symptoms is high. If I'm dropping money, which I never have enough of, I would want guarantees it would stop the problem... and I don't think they could give me one. I've gone three years before, as a record, without collapsing (and then twice this year). Three years of chowing down on a medicine that may or may not have solved the problem is a long time and a lot of cash.

Holto
11-14-2006, 05:49 PM
So while I have nothing against a naturopathic treatment my skepticism that they would do any more than alleviate/mask the symptoms is high. If I'm dropping money, which I never have enough of, I would want guarantees it would stop the problem... and I don't think they could give me one. I've gone three years before, as a record, without collapsing (and then twice this year). Three years of chowing down on a medicine that may or may not have solved the problem is a long time and a lot of cash.

I fully appreciate all of your sentiments.

The philosophy of natural medicine is to treat the individual holistically. The philosophy of allopathic medicine is to treat the symptoms.

If natural medicine can help you then it's through the discovery of the root cause of your terrible symptoms.

I cannot stress enough how much I think fish oil can help. Try it diligently for several months.

ShockBoxer
11-14-2006, 06:55 PM
No harm in having a couple of caps a day. Have to eat the entire bottle to affect caloric intake any. :)

Holto
11-15-2006, 10:48 AM
No harm in having a couple of caps a day. Have to eat the entire bottle to affect caloric intake any. :)

A couple of caps/day won't make a difference. IMO. Aim for the recommended dosage of DHA.