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235orbust
11-28-2006, 06:02 PM
I am a senior in high school and I take Sports Science/Sports medicine. I have a teacher that I feel knows what he is talking about. Right now in class we are talking about carbs and fats and proteins. The topic of whey protein, and high protein diets got brought up. He told us, with whey protein, all we are paying for is expensive urine. Here is his point of view- the body on a normal diet already has a surplus of protein. if you dont believe it you can go to the store and pick up one of those strips that measure protein i cant remember the name of them, then pee on it, youll see that there is a significant amount of protein in it. He says, if the body is already not utilizing that protein, it has no use for another 100 grams, or however much. He thinks most of the results we see are simply a placebo affect.

Now please dont flame me for posting this. I have been on a high protein diet for about 5 months now. I dont really believe all the results im seeing are placebo affects but i just need some reasurrense from my buddies on wannabebig.

SpecialK
11-28-2006, 06:38 PM
The best way to know for sure is try it for yourself. Spend several months following your teacher's recommendation for protein requirements and see how your gains compare to those when you follow a "standard BBing" recommendation of 1.5g protein/lb. bodyweight.

Personally I don't feel whey protein is that expensive, so I don't mind following the 1.5g/lb. bodyweight rule.

Ultimately you must consume sufficient calories to grow, and those calories have to come from somewhere.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
11-28-2006, 06:57 PM
It's 1g/lb. of LBM, not body weight.



He told us, with whey protein, all we are paying for is expensive urine.My college professor would disagree. :scratch:

Slim Schaedle
11-28-2006, 07:15 PM
I am a senior in high school and I take Sports Science/Sports medicine. I have a teacher that I feel knows what he is talking about. Right now in class we are talking about carbs and fats and proteins. The topic of whey protein, and high protein diets got brought up. He told us, with whey protein, all we are paying for is expensive urine. Here is his point of view- the body on a normal diet already has a surplus of protein. if you dont believe it you can go to the store and pick up one of those strips that measure protein i cant remember the name of them, then pee on it, youll see that there is a significant amount of protein in it. He says, if the body is already not utilizing that protein, it has no use for another 100 grams, or however much. He thinks most of the results we see are simply a placebo affect.

Now please dont flame me for posting this. I have been on a high protein diet for about 5 months now. I dont really believe all the results im seeing are placebo affects but i just need some reasurrense from my buddies on wannabebig.

Your teacher needs more education

That's the short version


Keep doing what you are doing

RedSpikeyThing
11-28-2006, 07:34 PM
Sorry to make my ignorance painfully clear, but where is the flaw in his teacher's logic? It makes sense (to me, at least) that if your body is excreting a substance it has an over abundance of it....

Oh, and please dumb it down for me lol

Slim Schaedle
11-28-2006, 07:42 PM
Sorry to make my ignorance painfully clear, but where is the flaw in his teacher's logic? It makes sense (to me, at least) that if your body is excreting a substance it has an over abundance of it....

Oh, and please dumb it down for me lol

The teacher's logic seems to be that whey is magically different than the protein in those 3 beef patties on the triple whopper that those high school kids go eat after the Friday night football game (before or after they get toasted) and that whole proteins end up in the toilet without ever having gone through any other process.

Obviously he is teaching a high school class, but there is alot more to it than to just say you will have expenise urine if you take whey or eat lots of protein.

RedSpikeyThing
11-28-2006, 07:44 PM
Fair enough, whey protein is very similar to other sources of protein. So why would the body excrete protein at all? Does it excrete more if it has an overabundance of protein?

235orbust
11-28-2006, 07:49 PM
all protein that isnt used is not stored in the body, it is excreted.

See, my teacher knows a lil sumn

Slim Schaedle
11-28-2006, 08:10 PM
all protein that isnt used is not stored in the body, it is excreted.

See, my teacher knows a lil sumn

um, no


For starters, ask your teacher to explain transamination and deamination of amino acids, and the urea cycle.

pepsihatman
11-28-2006, 08:36 PM
The proteins are broken down to energy like almost everything else you eat which has caloric content (except fiber). The amine groups are taken off and filtered out of the blood by the kidneys and ultimately end up being excreted in urine.

Having excess protein means that you take in more than your body needs to repair it's cells. You still get calories from it. Digesting protein takes more energy than digesting carbohydrates so a higher protein diet can assist in some minor ways with weight loss.

Main point: Your body only uses a certain amount of protein for repair and the rest is simply used for calories and energy (deamination and digestion).

I hope that's mostly right. Correct me if I made a wrong point please.

Slim Schaedle
11-28-2006, 09:05 PM
The proteins are broken down to energy like almost everything else you eat which has caloric content (except fiber). The amine groups are taken off and filtered out of the blood by the kidneys and ultimately end up being excreted in urine.

Having excess protein means that you take in more than your body needs to repair it's cells. You still get calories from it. Digesting protein takes more energy than digesting carbohydrates so a higher protein diet can assist in some minor ways with weight loss.

Main point: Your body only uses a certain amount of protein for repair and the rest is simply used for calories and energy (deamination and digestion).

I hope that's mostly right. Correct me if I made a wrong point please.

Looks like you know more than the high school teacher.


Only part I'd pick on is that aside from recovery/repair, there are tons of other uses for protein....then converted to energy.

RedSpikeyThing
11-28-2006, 09:08 PM
Ok, I follow all of that. High school come flashing back with the words "urea cycle". But what about the excess protein in urine? If this is the case, it isn't being used because it's not actually in your body. Or has already been used for something else?

ddegroff
11-28-2006, 09:20 PM
I need to look but I'm pretty sure amino's in the urine is a bad thing, just like glucose.

I think the test the teacher was talking about is testing nitrogen balance. Also there is another one that can test amount of ketones in the urine. But the op shouldn't have any ketones.

jft9120
11-28-2006, 09:26 PM
this thread reminds me of my first hour ap bio class.... ewwwww

"and in the kreb cycle there are 4 protons combined with acetyl-coa yada yada yada"....

Roddy
11-28-2006, 10:41 PM
I agree almost 100%. i think we can stand to gain from the use of whey protein. But not from huge doses. Our body can only make use of so much. I have been off whey for 2 months almost. I beleive my body can now more readily process a small amount of whey, as compared to before where i was loading up on over 300g of protein a day.

I take a half scoop now. or even just 1tbsp on non training days.

I feel way better. No bloat. No bloated look either.

Alex.V
11-29-2006, 06:14 AM
Um.

Do a search.

I think even just speaking for my own posts alone, this question has been answered four times in the last week and a half.


PLEASE.

RedSpikeyThing
11-29-2006, 09:53 AM
I searched for "protein in urine" and the only thread that came up was this one.

Belial, I think we all agree that high protein diets are important and that there is no such thing as "too much protein". That's what those other threads were about. This one, however, has gotten into the presence of protein in urine. I was under the impression this was a bad thing and that it indicates a problem with the kidneys.
Also, to the lay person like myself, this guy's teacher makes sense. I know he is wrong, I just don't know why.

Alex.V
11-29-2006, 10:19 AM
Try a search on "nitrogen retention", "positive nitrogen balance", or the like. Yes, increased dietary protein will increase excreted nitrogen, but on the whole, from the studies I've seen, overall there is more nitrogen retained.

No, it's not a direct correlation... 50-100 extra grams of protein yielded an extra 3-4 grams of additional retained nitrogen (not excreted), so you COULD argue that the rest was a waste, but taking in just 3-4 extra grams of protein will NOT result in any appreciable change in overall nitrogen balance.

So what the professor is saying is partially true... there will be excess "protein"... (actually nitrogen, not protein at all) in your urine. But that certainly doesn't mean the excess is going to waste. Every body also does NOT have a surplus of protein, it does have a surplus of nitrogenous waste (much of which is generated through amino acid breakdown, which happens for reasons too numerous to list), which is excreted in your urine.

EvanH
11-29-2006, 11:15 AM
The teacher's logic seems to be that whey is magically different than the protein in those 3 beef patties on the triple whopper that those high school kids go eat after the Friday night football game (before or after they get toasted)


For me it is after.... :P

235orbust
11-29-2006, 05:48 PM
Belial, what do you major in at duke?

Slim Schaedle
11-29-2006, 05:56 PM
Belial, what do you major in at duke?

owning

235orbust
11-29-2006, 06:02 PM
owning

:lowers head in embarassment:

im assuming he is taking a major that has a lot to do with sports nutrition im just curious what it is, im not sure what i am going to major in yet and this is a field i have interenst in

Holto
11-29-2006, 06:57 PM
owning

Word.

I liked his posts years ago but now they are supersized.

Buzzsaw
11-29-2006, 07:27 PM
So maybe we should make our protein shakes with urine instead of milk? :scratch:

galileo
11-29-2006, 08:24 PM
So maybe we should make our protein shakes with urine instead of milk? :scratch:

I encourage it.

Alex.V
11-30-2006, 11:43 AM
:lowers head in embarassment:

im assuming he is taking a major that has a lot to do with sports nutrition im just curious what it is, im not sure what i am going to major in yet and this is a field i have interenst in

Political science and biochemistry. I would honestly recommend biochem over a generic sports nutrition field; save the specialization for your masters. Get yourself the tools you need to be able to understand the fundamentals of chemical interactions in the body, and all of a sudden it's much easier to wade through the misinformation out there.

Courses having to do with politics also help. Political science teaches you to argue with everybody and pretend you're never wrong. They call it strength of conviction.

Bohizzle
11-30-2006, 11:54 AM
Political science teaches you to argue with everybody and pretend you're never wrong. They call it strength of conviction.

My girlfriend has that. it sucks. even when i know i'm right, i can never win.

Andrew

Slim Schaedle
11-30-2006, 01:42 PM
Political science teaches you to argue with everybody and pretend you're never wrong. They call it strength of conviction.

Somehow I inherrited this trait from my mom, and never needed a class :smoke: