PDA

View Full Version : are all calories the same?



Sontizzle
12-09-2006, 10:15 AM
i keep getting mixed feelings from people about it and i cant seem to find any hard facts. can someone explain.

ddegroff
12-09-2006, 12:24 PM
I think you need to clarify your question. There are so many answers and I'm not sure what your looking for.

Davidelmo
12-09-2006, 03:02 PM
oh dear lets not open this can again.

Usually people mean something like this:
If you eat 4000kcal a day from "clean foods" - lean meats, complex carbs and vegetables- or you eat 4000kcal from burgers, pizzas and fizzy drinks, which will make you more fat? (Of course assuming that total grams of protein are the same)

I'm split somewhere down the middle. There's no question that clean foods are healthier but as for body composition, i'm just not sure. On the lowest level it's obvious that you wouldn't gain more weight on either one of those diets than the other. That's because the total energy is the same. Therefore you can get fat on clean foods just as much as you can on dirty foods.

However, how your body deals with those differences is ridiculously complicated.

I would advocate eating clean because:
If you're going to be eating a lot of food for a long time when bulking, you might as well make it healthy. Lots of vitamins, minerals, phytonutrients, fibre etc etc.
"Bad" foods might damage your insulin sensitivity, encourage diabetes, artherosclerosis, increase blood pressure etc etc.

But that occasional pizza isn't going to ruin your efforts.

Sontizzle
12-09-2006, 07:03 PM
ive always had the notion that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, the only differences would be the different macros thats go along with them in the food. correct?

RedSpikeyThing
12-09-2006, 07:49 PM
ive always had the notion that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie is a calorie, the only differences would be the different macros thats go along with them in the food. correct?

Absolutely NOT.
For starters, healthy foods contain vitamins, minerals, and phytonutrients not found in refined crappy food. Many substances found in crappy food take different "less healthy" metabolic pathways than good foods.
I apologize for my vagueness - bio isn't my strength. I'm sure someone else can give you more details.

Questor
12-09-2006, 08:01 PM
Calories come from the digestion of food.

Simple carbs (low-gi carbs) such as sugars digest faster and release their calories in a burst.

Complex carbs (high-gi carbs) such as beans, digest slower and release their calories slowly.

Fats are digested relatively quickly I think...

Protein digest slowly.

1 gram of protein or carbs = 3 calories, i think
1 gram of fat = 9 calories


... i think

Sontizzle
12-09-2006, 08:03 PM
Calories come from the digestion of food.

Simple carbs (low-gi carbs) such as sugars digest faster and release their calories in a burst.

Complex carbs (high-gi carbs) such as beans, digest slower and release their calories slowly.

Fats are digested relatively quickly I think...

Protein digest slowly.

1 gram of protein or carbs = 3 calories, i think
1 gram of fat = 9 calories


... i thinkim not talking about macros here, just calories!

Questor
12-09-2006, 09:11 PM
Well the point I mean to make is,

Yes, all calories are the same... but...

Some calories come in bursts and some come slowly. Depends on the food you're digesting.

You want to time your calorie releases right. Right before a workout is a good time for slowly released calories. Right after a workout is a good time for quickly released calories.

See now sometimes your body will use insulin to store excess calories (current free calories above the metabolic rate) as fat, and other times as muscle. Right after a workout, insulin stores excess calories in muscle. Other times it tends to store excess calories as fat.

Your metabolic rate also changes during the day... While you sleep it's very low. When you're working out it's high.

So if you haven't worked out for about 4 hours, your body is using insulin to store calories. If you drink a 44oz coke and go to sleep, then you're going to get a huge rush of calories. Because your metabolic rate is very low, a very high percentage of those calories are excess. Therefore they go into fat.

If on the other hand you just worked out, your metabolism is hot and insulin is storing excess calories as muscle. Good time to have a bit of liquid simple carbs.

So all calories are calories... but in addition to what everyone else has said about vitamins and nutrients, and I might add cholesterol and types of fats (what trans fat does to your system is jsut nasty)... In addition to all that, you need to consider how fast you're getting the calories and how your insulin is using excess calories.

So a calorie is a calorie. How you use that calorie varies.

And I'm a total noob, so I'm probably wrong about half the **** I just said.

shootermcgavin7
12-09-2006, 10:02 PM
As far as an energy requirement, then the answer is yes.

As far as changing one's body comp, the answer is no. Hopefully someone with a better nutri/anatomy requirement can step in, as my technical knowledge here is only elementary.

pepsihatman
12-09-2006, 10:13 PM
Calories come from the digestion of food.

Simple carbs (low-gi carbs) such as sugars digest faster and release their calories in a burst.

Complex carbs (high-gi carbs) such as beans, digest slower and release their calories slowly.

Fats are digested relatively quickly I think...

Protein digest slowly.

1 gram of protein or carbs = 3 calories, i think
1 gram of fat = 9 calories


... i think

1 gram protein = 4 calories, 1 gram carbohydrate = 4 calories, 1 gram fat = 9 calories, 1 gram of alcohol = 7 calories. FYI.

Sontizzle
12-10-2006, 12:04 AM
ok im gonna try to sum this up from what info i have gathered...

the calorie is a unit used to measure heat. It is defined as the amount of heat needed to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water by 1 degree Celsius.

so basically a calorie is the same in every food NO MATTER WHAT. its just a measurement. what affects the way your body reacts with it is within the other macros contained in the food.

Davidelmo
12-10-2006, 04:45 AM
One calorie from a burger provides the same energy as one calorie from brocolli, yes.

It's just a measure of energy.

Davidelmo
12-10-2006, 04:46 AM
and yes, you were pretty much right ^

Vapour Trails
12-11-2006, 03:44 PM
There are studies that show changing the composition of a diet while keeping the calories unchanged can affect body composition in terms of fat gain/loss etc.

For instance, studies that show monkeys fed trans fats gained weight despite consuming same number of calories as control monkeys. There was noticeable fat deposit around the midsection.

Clifford Gillmore
12-11-2006, 05:27 PM
Only the macro's count, but in order to suceed in a diet your macros need to be in a healthy ballpark area ie 500 carb 250 pro 100 fat etc. Your total cals can be a variable of those, but if your weighing on less protein/fat more carbs your diet is going to suck.


Yannow?

Warrior10
12-11-2006, 10:26 PM
So I am currently cutting, and normally after my workout I'll have some carb and whey protein. I work out in the evening usually, so I have to have two meals afterwards. My last meal of the day - about an hour and a half before I sleep - is NO carb but protein: usually a can of tuna. (about 125 calories)

A poster above said that calories from protein are released slower, and that when you sleep, your metabolism is very low.

How will this affect the efficiency of my cut?

McIrish
12-12-2006, 02:31 AM
So I am currently cutting, and normally after my workout I'll have some carb and whey protein. I work out in the evening usually, so I have to have two meals afterwards. My last meal of the day - about an hour and a half before I sleep - is NO carb but protein: usually a can of tuna. (about 125 calories)

A poster above said that calories from protein are released slower, and that when you sleep, your metabolism is very low.

How will this affect the efficiency of my cut?

I think some people put entirely too much emphasis on the "oh no, I ate the carbs 20 minutes later than I should have!" or "oh no, I put too much fat in that meal!". Don't worry about it so much and let your body sort it all out. If you're gaining a little pudge, dial it in a little.

Davidelmo
12-12-2006, 10:45 AM
So I am currently cutting, and normally after my workout I'll have some carb and whey protein. I work out in the evening usually, so I have to have two meals afterwards. My last meal of the day - about an hour and a half before I sleep - is NO carb but protein: usually a can of tuna. (about 125 calories)

A poster above said that calories from protein are released slower, and that when you sleep, your metabolism is very low.

How will this affect the efficiency of my cut?

It won't affect it. It will be fine.

Warrior10
12-12-2006, 11:03 AM
It won't affect it. It will be fine.

Ok good - thanks. :thumbup:

Cirino83
12-12-2006, 11:16 AM
Good article on calories....
http://www.naturalchampion.net/articles/article/2410291/51175.htm

ddegroff
12-12-2006, 02:35 PM
Good article on calories....
http://www.naturalchampion.net/articles/article/2410291/51175.htm

Eh... this has been discussed before. The difference in TEF of protein ends up being 10cals, no big deal.

Where they talk about fat being converted more easily than carbs or protein is correct. BUT who knows how much of difference it really makes.

Slim Schaedle
12-12-2006, 06:43 PM
Well the point I mean to make is,

Yes, all calories are the same... but...

Some calories come in bursts and some come slowly. Depends on the food you're digesting.

You want to time your calorie releases right. Right before a workout is a good time for slowly released calories. Right after a workout is a good time for quickly released calories.

See now sometimes your body will use insulin to store excess calories (current free calories above the metabolic rate) as fat, and other times as muscle. Right after a workout, insulin stores excess calories in muscle. Other times it tends to store excess calories as fat.

Your metabolic rate also changes during the day... While you sleep it's very low. When you're working out it's high.

So if you haven't worked out for about 4 hours, your body is using insulin to store calories. If you drink a 44oz coke and go to sleep, then you're going to get a huge rush of calories. Because your metabolic rate is very low, a very high percentage of those calories are excess. Therefore they go into fat.

If on the other hand you just worked out, your metabolism is hot and insulin is storing excess calories as muscle. Good time to have a bit of liquid simple carbs.

So all calories are calories... but in addition to what everyone else has said about vitamins and nutrients, and I might add cholesterol and types of fats (what trans fat does to your system is jsut nasty)... In addition to all that, you need to consider how fast you're getting the calories and how your insulin is using excess calories.

So a calorie is a calorie. How you use that calorie varies.

And I'm a total noob, so I'm probably wrong about half the **** I just said.

There are a few flaws in here.

The biggest being slow burst/fast burst. Using carbohydrates as an example, sugar is not really "faster acting" in terms of cellular energy any more so than the glucose converted from complex carbs such as a potato. While the speed of digestion plays a role in other aspect such as insulin and factors surrounding that, once glucose in converted to glycogen in the cell, it's all the same.


I cannot emphasize this enough. Your body does not use subtstrates from food (commonly called "calories," as soon as you consume them , digest the, abosorb them, or convert them to other subtstrates. It is so much more comlicated than that.

Your 44oz coke example is not entirely correct. I could be glycogen depleted to a degree in my muscle, liver, or both, and drink a huge dextrose shake right before bed or in the middle of the night, and still not convert any of that glucose to triglycerides.

It comes down to the energy charge (high or low) of the cell.

Slim Schaedle
12-12-2006, 06:43 PM
Calories come from the digestion of food.

Simple carbs (low-gi carbs) such as sugars digest faster and release their calories in a burst.

Complex carbs (high-gi carbs) such as beans, digest slower and release their calories slowly.

Fats are digested relatively quickly I think...

Protein digest slowly.

1 gram of protein or carbs = 3 calories, i think
1 gram of fat = 9 calories


... i think

Fats digest slowly.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
12-12-2006, 06:59 PM
1 gram of protein or carbs = 3 calories, i think1 gram of carbs = 4 calories, 1 gram of protein = 4 calories.

Questor
12-12-2006, 07:28 PM
Your 44oz coke example is not entirely correct. I could be glycogen depleted to a degree in my muscle, liver, or both, and drink a huge dextrose shake right before bed or in the middle of the night, and still not convert any of that glucose to triglycerides.

Boy I tell ya, this is definately not my subject. I don't know if I'll ever get it right.