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Grunt76
12-19-2006, 11:54 AM
What is a "Good Diet"?

BY Grunt76

You see it all the time. It is asked "what's your diet like?" and the reply is "don't worry about that, the diet is good, my problem is somewhere else..." OK, fine. Sure, we all eat somewhat regularly and try to get a good amount of protein. But is that enough to call what you are doing a "good diet"? Not by a mile.

Here's a few things that help knowing where you stand with your diet:

1. Know how many calories you need for maintenance on both active days and rest days.

2. Know how many calories you are taking in each day. This means keeping a food journal. Unless you have kept food journals for a LONG time, then you can't really know where you stand with regards to your nutrition. A good place to keep a food journal is at FitDay, which also calculates how many calories you need. It's free, too. Here's the link: http://www.fitday.com

3. Know how much protein you need and how much you are taking in. Protein is the single most important nutrient to watch, at least in the early stages of discovering your best diet. 1g/lb of bodyweight is a good base, which means that under no circumstances should you go under that. 1.5g/lb of bodyweight is good and some people do even better at 2g/lb.

4. Know that there is protein in many things. "protein" doesn't mean "powder". Fish, chicken, meat and dairy are all high in protein.

5. You need to know which nutrient ratios you do better with. If 40% calories from protein, 40% carbs and 20% fat works for you, you HAVE TO KNOW THAT. If 50/40/10 is better, then fine. And so on. Some people do very well on 40/05/55 for 5-6 days, followed by 40/50/10 for 1-2 days. That's called a CKD.

6. To discover these things, you will need to experiment. Start with a good 40/40/20 and see how you feel. Adjust and see the results. Then again. Then again. You'll eventually find what works best when cutting, when bulking and when maintaining.

7. You need to eat REGULARLY. That doesn't mean "every single day". It means every set number of hours. For example, say you're up 16 hours per day, and sleep for 8 hours, then you can eat approximately every 3 hours. You can schedule things like this:

06AM: Breakfast
09AM: Snack
12PM: Lunch
03PM: Pre-workout Snack
06PM: Post-workout shake
0730: Dinner
1000: Bedtime snack

Yes, this way you eat 7 times a day. This is pretty ideal. Too much work? No time? Too much trouble? Then either hire someone to do it for you if you have the money or get it out of your head that you will ever have anything more than a "nice" body. Being in GREAT SHAPE is a lot of work! If it were that easy, you'd see legions of 235lb men with shredded 6-packs. THAT is why there aren't that many. Yes you can get away with eating 4 times a day, but 5 to 7 are better.

8. Know what you're doing with what kinds of carbs, fats and proteins you're taking. Know what low glycemic index carbs are, what high-GI carbs are and which do what for you. Know what essential fatty acids are, what saturated and unsaturated fats are, which foods they come from, what they do for you. Know what complete protein is and what isn't and make sure you have complete protein on as many snacks and meals as doable.

9. Once you've been at training and dieting for long enough that you have experimented with enough variations of all these factors and finally figured out what works best for gaining, leaning, or maintaining/recomping, and have disciplined yourself enough to apply all this knowledge no matter what, day in, day out, THEN you can say you have a "good diet". Not before.

Remember, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. This is true of bodybuilding also. If you think of Training, Diet, Supplementation, Rest, Hydration, Hormones and Genetics as the links of the chain that ties you to your bodybuilding goals, then you have a pretty good mental picture of how things work. In this author's 15 years of bodybuilding experimentation and 11 years of internet discussion of bodybuilding, DIET comes on top as the most often weakest link in someone's approach to bodybuilding. No matter how much stronger you make the other links, if diet is not as good as it can be, all your efforts to make those links stronger will come to naught because your diet breaks your tie to the "building" part of bodybuilding.

How many times have I met people in my gyms who complain that "gaining muscle is SO hard" and even that they are "steroid non-responders" or, the newly best-loved method of bull****ting oneself about their way of doing things, that they "have bad genetics". As a matter of fact, unless you have tried every single combination of every factor that is known to affect the bodybuilding endeavour, or have undergone a nonexistent DNA test to this effect, you cannot have any idea if you have "good genetics for bodybuilding" or not. Sure, your dad and grandad might be weaklings. Maybe their lifestyles made them that way and they just wasted great athletic genes by being potato couches or whatever. Point is, what your immediate ancestors look like doesn't mean much. Every single time I've chatted up some guy who complained of his gains or genetics or lack thereof, there is a gaping hole in his method, and most of the time, it boils down to ONE THING. DIET

Davidelmo
12-19-2006, 12:13 PM
Good post overall. A few will disagree with your dietary ratio points and I think you might have overdone the protein reccommendation, but overall it's good advice that any beginner should follow.

8.8
12-19-2006, 12:37 PM
great article!!!!

i almost didnt even look at this thread cuz i thought it was going to be another person asking what to eat to get ripped/gain musle

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
12-19-2006, 12:38 PM
3. Know how much protein you need and how much you are taking in. Protein is the single most important nutrient to watch, at least in the early stages of discovering your best diet. 1g/lb of bodyweight is a good base, which means that under no circumstances should you go under that. 1.5g/lb of bodyweight is good and some people do even better at 2g/lb.It's at least 1 gram of protein per pound of LBM, not body weight, so you shouldn't be saying "under no circumstances" with 1.5 per pound of bodyweight. The minimum will most likely be met and will be exceeded depending on a person's caloric intake or personal choice.



5. You need to know which nutrient ratios you do better with. If 40% calories from protein, 40% carbs and 20% fat works for you, you HAVE TO KNOW THAT. If 50/40/10 is better, then fine. And so on. Some people do very well on 40/05/55 for 5-6 days, followed by 40/50/10 for 1-2 days. That's called a CKD.Better ~>

1 gram of protein per pound of LBM, .5 grams of fat per pound of LBM, and the rest coming from protein, carbs, and fat (the choice is up to the individual) to meet caloric requirements. And once you start using ratios, you negate the point of having a protein minimum.



6. To discover these things, you will need to experiment. Start with a good 40/40/20 and see how you feel. Adjust and see the results. Then again. Then again. You'll eventually find what works best when cutting, when bulking and when maintaining.Again...down with ratios! If you're on a cut, changing ratios is lame. Just stick with the same minimums and up your fat and protein intake to feel more satiated so you don't, as Built put it, feel like gnawing your arm off.



Know what low glycemic index carbs are, what high-GI carbs are and which do what for you.The GI becomes irrelevant (I think it's a bit irrelevant anyway) when you start eating them with other macronutrients (the rate of absorption/gastric emptying).



Yes, this way you eat 7 times a day. This is pretty ideal. Too much work? No time? Too much trouble? Then either hire someone to do it for you if you have the money or get it out of your head that you will ever have anything more than a "nice" body. Being in GREAT SHAPE is a lot of work! If it were that easy, you'd see legions of 235lb men with shredded 6-packs. THAT is why there aren't that many. Yes you can get away with eating 4 times a day, but 5 to 7 are better.Eating every 3 hours isn't the end all be all reason for achieving a great body. And eating more often does not affect metabolism. But it certainly is more satisfying over the course of each day.



If you think of Training, Diet, Supplementation, Rest, Hydration, Hormones and Genetics as the links of the chain that ties you to your bodybuilding goals:scratch:

ericg
12-19-2006, 12:39 PM
Decent post. Though I can see a lot of people following this for a short period of time and then going back to their previous ways. Some of the points you make are great for those few who can be extremely dedicated, consistent, and willing to jump right into everything. For the person who is looking to incorporate healthy eating training habits into their lifestyle, I think they would be better served to focus on some smaller changes. This way they can slowly adapt to their new healthy life as it will not be so overwhelming and stressful.

8.8
12-19-2006, 12:48 PM
scarz- hormones-testosterone/estrogen

and most of what he was saying in this article was that you need to experiment and see whats best for your body and learn about the things you are putting into your body and why you do it-i think you read into this article a little much

Grunt76
12-19-2006, 12:51 PM
It's at least 1 gram of protein per pound of LBM, not body weight, so you shouldn't be saying "under no circumstances" with 1.5 per pound of bodyweight. The minimum will most likely be met and will be exceeded depending on a person's caloric intake or personal choice.Yes, the BARE minimum is 1g per lb of LBM. I said under no circumstances with 1.0 /lb bodyweight not 1.5. If you are going to criticize, at least read the thing.


Better ~>

1 gram of protein per pound of LBM, .5 grams of fat per pound of LBM, and the rest coming from protein, carbs, and fat (the choice is up to the individual) to meet caloric requirements. And once you start using ratios, you negate the point of having a protein minimum.Some people do better with higher fat and moderate carbs whereas others do better with more carbs and less fat. Anyone with any experience knows that, so putting fixed amounts is counterproductive since diet is an individual thing. Some people love the CKD's and some people hate them.


Again...down with ratios! If you're on a cut, changing ratios is lame. Just stick with the same minimums and up your fat and protein intake to feel more satiated so you don't, as Built put it, feel like gnawing your arm off.What works for you doesn't have to work for others. Do you even know what a CKD is?


The GI becomes irrelevant (I think it's a bit irrelevant anyway) when you start eating them with other macronutrients (the rate of absorption/gastric emptying).While this is true, knowing the GI of your carbs remains important because you cannot take for granted that the high GI carbs will always be mixed with something that will reduce the GI of the meal enough. Someone might be tempted to eat whey isolate and dextrose between meals. That will not cut hunger but add calories, precisely what you may want to avoid under certain circumstances.


Eating every 3 hours isn't the end all be all reason for achieving a great body. And eating more often does not affect metabolism. But it certainly is more satisfying over the course of each day.Uh, yes, eating more often raises metabolism. Not intracelullar metabolism as some hair-splitters might argue, but overall body energy consumption, yes.

Grunt76
12-19-2006, 12:52 PM
Decent post. Though I can see a lot of people following this for a short period of time and then going back to their previous ways. Some of the points you make are great for those few who can be extremely dedicated, consistent, and willing to jump right into everything. For the person who is looking to incorporate healthy eating training habits into their lifestyle, I think they would be better served to focus on some smaller changes. This way they can slowly adapt to their new healthy life as it will not be so overwhelming and stressful.Thanks for the great compliment. :rolleyes:

Yes this is for bodybuilders and serious athletes. Maybe I am not at the right place?

Grunt76
12-19-2006, 12:57 PM
scarz- hormones-testosterone/estrogen

and most of what he was saying in this article was that you need to experiment and see whats best for your body and learn about the things you are putting into your body and why you do it-i think you read into this article a little much

Ah! Someone who read with neutral eyes and understood my post. Thank you for chiming in! :)

Cirino83
12-19-2006, 12:58 PM
Maybe a few minor edits and then sticky

Good post

8.8
12-19-2006, 12:58 PM
Yes, the BARE minimum is 1g per lb of LBM. I said under no circumstances with 1.0 /lb bodyweight not 1.5. If you are going to criticize, at least read the thing.

Some people do better with higher fat and moderate carbs whereas others do better with more carbs and less fat. Anyone with any experience knows that, so putting fixed amounts is counterproductive since diet is an individual thing. Some people love the CKD's and some people hate them.

What works for you doesn't have to work for others. Do you even know what a CKD is?

While this is true, knowing the GI of your carbs remains important because you cannot take for granted that the high GI carbs will always be mixed with something that will reduce the GI of the meal enough. Someone might be tempted to eat whey isolate and dextrose between meals. That will not cut hunger but add calories, precisely what you may want to avoid under certain circumstances.

Uh, yes, eating more often raises metabolism. Not intracelullar metabolism as some hair-splitters might argue, but overall body energy consumption, yes.

:D

8.8
12-19-2006, 01:01 PM
Thanks for the great compliment. :rolleyes:

Yes this is for bodybuilders and serious athletes. Maybe I am not at the right place?



there arent many bodybuilders here - i find a lot of people on here dont agree with what i say and i am both a bodybuilder and a division I college athlete

although i dont believe i have as much knowlegde as you do i hope you stick around to help spread good advice and knowledge

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
12-19-2006, 01:05 PM
Yes, the BARE minimum is 1g per lb of LBM. I said under no circumstances with 1.0 /lb bodyweight not 1.5. If you are going to criticize, at least read the thing.I did read it. I just missed the period and combined the two sentences when reading it. And again, it's LBM, not body weight. So the point is still the same.



What works for you doesn't have to work for others. Do you even know what a CKD is?Obviously. And this doesn't work for me, but thanks for the assumption. It was a recommendation...just like you're doing. The only thing I've seen in reference to CKD is Chronic Kidney Disease. If you mean something else, do enlighten me.



Yes this is for bodybuilders and serious athletes. Maybe I am not at the right place?Or maybe you should not think that everything you post is perfect and not up for open discussion. :windup:



Some people do better with higher fat and moderate carbs whereas others do better with more carbs and less fat. Anyone with any experience knows that, so putting fixed amounts is counterproductive since diet is an individual thing. Some people love the CKD's and some people hate them.It's not a fixed amount just like ratios are not a fixed amount. Your 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight would seem like a fixed amount to me if you're going to call it that. :scratch: Ratios and what I provided are not fixed amounts, since each person's need will vary depending on quite a few variables. If I said everyone needed at least 300 grams of protein per day, 200 grams of fat, and 600 carbs, no matter what their caloric needs are, that would be a fixed amount.



While this is true, knowing the GI of your carbs remains important because you cannot take for granted that the high GI carbs will always be mixed with something that will reduce the GI of the meal enough. Someone might be tempted to eat whey isolate and dextrose between meals. That will not cut hunger but add calories, precisely what you may want to avoid under certain circumstances.If you're just eating carbs, then sure.



Uh, yes, eating more often raises metabolism. Not intracelullar metabolism as some hair-splitters might argue, but overall body energy consumption, yes.Eating more often has other benefits, but metabolism is not one of them.



Ah! Someone who read with neutral eyes and understood my post. Thank you for chiming in! That was more of a sarcastic response from me. It's obvious what you meant by hormones. I just don't know why you'd recommend them as part of your "good diet" thread since they have nothing to do with that.


And not ro rain on your parade, but 100% of what you've posted here has been posted a million times before.

ericg
12-19-2006, 01:10 PM
Decent post. Though I can see a lot of people following this for a short period of time and then going back to their previous ways. Some of the points you make are great for those few who can be extremely dedicated, consistent, and willing to jump right into everything. For the person who is looking to incorporate healthy eating training habits into their lifestyle, I think they would be better served to focus on some smaller changes. This way they can slowly adapt to their new healthy life as it will not be so overwhelming and stressful.

Yeah you are in the right place and I believe I said that you made some great points.

I just wanted to state for those who are not bodybuilders or serious athletes that they shouldn't overwhelm themselves with finding the correct ratios, percentages, learn all they can about HI GI carbs and when they can eat them, etc., until they get the very basics down, so they can make it a lifestyle change not just a diet. Some like information overload and some like to take small steps.

Unreal
12-19-2006, 01:13 PM
CKD=Cyclical ketogenic diet

Basically ketosis for a few days, then off, then repeat. UD2.0 would be an example of a CKD.

ericg
12-19-2006, 01:13 PM
CKD - http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=34

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
12-19-2006, 01:14 PM
^^

Ok, I know what that is now. Thanks.

Davidelmo
12-19-2006, 01:18 PM
Trying to put fixed amount onto anything is just stupid. As you (grunt) said himself, peoples needs vary. Some people get fat from high carbs, other don't. Some people get hungry on carbs, others don't.

I dont agree with the ratio approach. Gearing macronutrients around lean body mass (or even just bodyweight) is still far superior IMO. Your body can't count and I dont see how 30% or 40% carbs will make much difference... it is the overall AMOUNT that matter, not the %age proportion.

And no, eating more smaller meals does not increase metabolism. Numerous studies of 3 vs 6 meals have shown this. Maybe if you compare 6 meals vs 1 meal you might get a difference but since most bb'ers use 6 meals, that comparison is not too relevant.

And grunt, welcome to WBB. You said that on the boards where you are a veteran, your stuff is praised and at boards where you are new, your stuff is disregarded.
Here you're not receiving a hostile response, I promise you. But you *will* almost always be challenged and asked to back up your statements. There are plenty of phds, mscs, doctors, med students etc etc here to battle with!

I've read some of your other articles and I'm glad you're here to share info and learn with us all.

ericg
12-19-2006, 01:20 PM
there arent many bodybuilders here - i find a lot of people on here dont agree with what i say and i am both a bodybuilder and a division I college athlete

although i dont believe i have as much knowlegde as you do i hope you stick around to help spread good advice and knowledge

I agree he should stick around as I am learning a lot from him.

I think people agree with you, they just dont want to admit that they cannot be as dedicated as you. I must admit though that if you are a newbie that following everything he has listed in his first post, while getting settled into a routine, dealing with all the other things that you were doing before you decided to get on a healthy way of living, it can be very stressful. This can be information overlaod for some and cause them to just go back to what they were doing before, which most likely was unhealthy to us, since they think that if they are not perfect they will fail.

Grunt76
12-19-2006, 01:26 PM
I did read it. I just missed the period and combined the two sentences when reading it. And again, it's LBM, not body weight. So the point is still the same.I agree it is LBM, but a lot of times people who are looking to make their diet a basic "good" don't know what their LBM is and frankly, 1.0g of protein per lb of LBM is not enough in most cases. It is a BARE bare minimum... ;)


Obviously. And this doesn't work for me, but thanks for the assumption. It was a recommendation...just like you're doing. The only thing I've seen in reference to CKD is Chronic Kidney Disease. If you mean something else, do enlighten me.

Or maybe you should not think that everything you post is perfect and not up for open discussion. :windup:EVERY SINGLE one of your points was an attempt at correcting. There is nothing positive about any of your posts in this thread. You are obviously trying to find fault instead of seeing the very major qualities of my post. When mistakes are made, I correct them, no matter who points them out. But when opinions get mixed up with facts and then used to comment negatively on someone's work wether it is mine or someone else, I oppose.


It's not a fixed amount just like ratios are not a fixed amount. Your 1.5-2 grams of protein per pound of bodyweight would seem like a fixed amount to me if you're going to call it that. :scratch: Ratios and what I provided are not fixed amounts, since each person's need will vary depending on quite a few variables. If I said everyone needed at least 300 grams of protein per day, 200 grams of fat, and 600 carbs, no matter what their caloric needs are, that would be a fixed amount.Uh... YEAH. Sorry I meant FIXED AMOUNT PER LB OF LBM. But the point remains valid: bioindividual response is real with food as it is with supplements and hormones. You are not taking that into account.


If you're just eating carbs, then sure.No, whey isolate will not reduce the high GI from dextrose. This is one example, and a very often seen one, so again we CANNOT assume that high GI foods will always be mixed with enough low-GI ones to safely assert that we can completely disregard GI, *ESPECIALLY* when designing a diet.



Eating more often has other benefits, but metabolism is not one of them.

That was more of a sarcastic response from me. It's obvious what you meant by hormones. I just don't know why you'd recommend them as part of your "good diet" thread since they have nothing to do with that.

And not ro rain on your parade, but 100% of what you've posted here has been posted a million times before.
I agree it has been posted before, but not in such an easy-to read, understand and apply mini-manual. Not that I have seen, on any forum, anyways. The information is sprinkled all over diet forums and people have to read a zillion posts before they can start making their diet. I seek to provide a solid starting point with this post, not create a dietary revolution. :rolleyes:

And *I* have not mentioned hormones, someone else did... :scratch:

Grunt76
12-19-2006, 01:28 PM
I agree he should stick around as I am learning a lot from him.

I think people agree with you, they just dont want to admit that they cannot be as dedicated as you. I must admit though that if you are a newbie that following everything he has listed in his first post, while getting settled into a routine, dealing with all the other things that you were doing before you decided to get on a healthy way of living, it can be very stressful. This can be information overlaod for some and cause them to just go back to what they were doing before, which most likely was unhealthy to us, since they think that if they are not perfect they will fail.

HM, yes you did. Maybe Scarz was getting to me... :p

8.8
12-19-2006, 01:37 PM
yes you did mention hormones but only saying that they are "one of the links in the chain that ties you to your bodybuilding goals" in your article

Grunt76
12-19-2006, 01:43 PM
yes you did mention hormones but only saying that they are "one of the links in the chain that ties you to your bodybuilding goals" in your article
Ah yes I had forgotten.

Also the main reason why I mention ratios in that article is because fitday is arranged that way. The goal is to keep it somewhat simple.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
12-19-2006, 02:01 PM
I agree it is LBM, but a lot of times people who are looking to make their diet a basic "good" don't know what their LBM is and frankly, 1.0g of protein per lb of LBM is not enough in most cases. It is a BARE bare minimum... ;)I agree.



EVERY SINGLE one of your points was an attempt at correcting. There is nothing positive about any of your posts in this thread. You are obviously trying to find fault instead of seeing the very major qualities of my post. When mistakes are made, I correct them, no matter who points them out. But when opinions get mixed up with facts and then used to comment negatively on someone's work wether it is mine or someone else, I oppose.Don't start throwing out the guilt card, honestly. I think it was a very good post overall. I just felt that it might be a bit overwhelming for some to go all out, but it does require a degree of dedication and determination that many people lack. Baby steps. ;)




I agree it has been posted before, but not in such an easy-to read, understand and apply mini-manual. Not that I have seen, on any forum, anyways. The information is sprinkled all over diet forums and people have to read a zillion posts before they can start making their diet. I seek to provide a solid starting point with this post, not create a dietary revolution. :rolleyes:Um...try the diet stickies.



And *I* have not mentioned hormones, someone else did... :scratch:You're right. It was the author of this article.

Grunt76
12-19-2006, 02:28 PM
You're right. It was the author of this article.
Hahaha... I wrote it... ;)

mikesbytes
12-19-2006, 11:49 PM
Good post, interesting thread.

LBM = Lean Body Mass I presume.

Whats the definition? Your body with 0% body fat?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
12-20-2006, 01:35 AM
Hahaha... I wrote it... ;)I know.

Snakeoffire
12-20-2006, 01:56 AM
great article!!!!

i almost didnt even look at this thread cuz i thought it was going to be another person asking what to eat to get ripped/gain musle

I agree, great article

divided
12-20-2006, 09:57 AM
Good post, interesting thread.

LBM = Lean Body Mass I presume.

Whats the definition? Your body with 0% body fat?


LBM=Your Muscle Mass

Total Body Weight=Muscles+Fat

So someone might weight 200 pounds, but theyd have (an this varies) maybe 160lbm and 40 pounds fat mass.