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Y0yo
12-29-2006, 10:57 AM
What would be the most useful martial arts to study for actual self-defense? I've always been interested in martial arts and always liked the capoera style, but that's not what I see myself using in a fight for my life. So, in a real life situation, what would be best in the opinions of those who actual have studied. I live in Japan and most of my students are involved in judo or karate, but none of them seem to enjoy it. I took an interest in kempo after seeing a few videos and finding out they have a dojo near my place. BUT I'm interested in martial arts for the 'fear factor'...being big is one thing, but having the courage (By knowing I can actually do something) is something else.

Any advice?

markdk86
12-29-2006, 11:42 AM
Mixed Martial Arts. Learn real fighting.

DokterVet
12-29-2006, 11:51 AM
MMA, and filipino martial arts for weapons.

Alex.V
12-29-2006, 12:14 PM
marksmanship and speed reloading.

bloodninja
12-29-2006, 12:19 PM
Mixed Martial Arts. Learn real fighting.

Most places won't just teach all out MMA to someone with no experience.

Start with something useful like jiu jitsu, muay thai, or judo. Jiu jitsu and muay thai combined would give you a very solid base to start with.

Maki Riddington
12-29-2006, 02:37 PM
If you're in japan. DO JUDO!!! Then move on once you get your black belt. If you apply yourself you should have yours in about 2-3 years time. Then on to an art that involves striking and kicking (Muay Thai).

Try to train at the Universities. I've heard that the Judo training is absolutely brutal.

Y0yo
12-29-2006, 08:42 PM
If you're in japan. DO JUDO!!! Then move on once you get your black belt. If you apply yourself you should have yours in about 2-3 years time. Then on to an art that involves striking and kicking (Muay Thai).

Try to train at the Universities. I've heard that the Judo training is absolutely brutal.

I'll see what I can find on JUDO when the schools open up again in the New Year. Is there a reason you recommend JUDO?

CosmicForce
12-30-2006, 07:05 AM
Judo and Muay Thai.

Maki Riddington
12-30-2006, 01:12 PM
If you have a solid foundation in terms of keeping yourself on your feet while fighting and can throw, sweep and grapple fairly well, I think you'll find that you can pretty much handle yourself in most situations.

Judo also teaches you how to close the dstance between you and another person in a physical confrontation.

Y0yo
12-31-2006, 09:05 AM
Any advice on how to find a good dojo Maki?

Maki Riddington
12-31-2006, 11:54 AM
Replied to your PM. :)

russianwol
12-31-2006, 04:14 PM
What would be the most useful martial arts to study for actual self-defense? I've always been interested in martial arts and always liked the capoera style, but that's not what I see myself using in a fight for my life. So, in a real life situation, what would be best in the opinions of those who actual have studied. I live in Japan and most of my students are involved in judo or karate, but none of them seem to enjoy it. I took an interest in kempo after seeing a few videos and finding out they have a dojo near my place. BUT I'm interested in martial arts for the 'fear factor'...being big is one thing, but having the courage (By knowing I can actually do something) is something else.

Any advice?

Check into Krav Maga. Dunno if you can find it in Japan though.

Natetaco
01-01-2007, 11:34 AM
BJJ, hapkido, muay tai

Cirino83
01-30-2007, 02:27 PM
Definately for self defense (in a street fight) I would siggest BJJ or Muay Tai.

HardToSquat
02-02-2007, 10:08 AM
I will add my vote to Judo and Muay Thai for best self defense. I practice Judo and Tae Kwon Do and Judo is the way to go with all of the sweeps and grappling involved as well as the submission and choke holds...and plenty of bruises!

Maki Riddington
02-02-2007, 10:59 AM
Another judoka. Awesome.:)

zen
02-02-2007, 11:27 AM
marksmanship and speed reloading.

:lol: who needs speed loading when you can carry extra clips.
However, a true marksmen doesn't need extra shots. :smug:

Keith
02-02-2007, 11:31 AM
As am I, or was one. I'm really thinking of getting back into it though. I was in Judo for about a year or so and quit at my green. The training there was indescribable! I was at the best Judo club in Ontario and one of the best in Canada and so close by to where I lived.
Don't know if I should go back or look into Muay Thai. Any suggestions?

Cirino83
02-02-2007, 12:20 PM
Muay Thai...In my opinion it's better for self defense in street fights. I'm sure people will argue though.

Titanium_Jim
02-02-2007, 03:42 PM
As am I, or was one. I'm really thinking of getting back into it though. I was in Judo for about a year or so and quit at my green. The training there was indescribable! I was at the best Judo club in Ontario and one of the best in Canada and so close by to where I lived.
Don't know if I should go back or look into Muay Thai. Any suggestions?

Depends on what suits you best in a fight. If you are already good and fast at defending yourself from attacks, and want to perfect dtriking strength and form, go into muay thai, but MT does not generally teach much blocking, so if you want to be able to defend rather than counter, you might want to get back into judo.
Or do both.

CrazyK
02-02-2007, 04:19 PM
The bjj/muay thai combo is very effective, it's employed by SBG Academy, Chute Boxe Academy in Brazil, and many other successful MMA gyms. The Muay Thai covers everything you need for striking as well as in the clinch, bjj is superior to any other art for pure ground fighting so you're covered there as well.

tryharder1
02-02-2007, 08:11 PM
Recommend Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I think the statistic says that 85% of fights go to the ground - and if you are even mildly proficient in BJJ, and the other person has no knowledge, it doesn't matter how big or strong they are, you will utterly outclass them.

Maki Riddington
02-05-2007, 10:56 AM
You may go to the ground but you start standing. This means that you want to have the upper hand when you do go to the ground. BJJ in my opinion is not the best for teaching someone how to go from a standing position onto the ground.

Judo is much better. If you can go from standing to throwing or sweeping onto the cement or hard surface you can almost be sure you will have the upper hand on the ground.

In terms of a combo I'd go Muay Thia/Judo.

Organichu
02-05-2007, 11:23 AM
I'm actually going to need to agree with Maki. It's pretty clear that one would be best off to have all three- Muay Thai, Judo, and BJJ. However, if it is a matter of Muay Thai and another for self defense, I'd prefer Judo.

It's all well and good to control on the ground... but IMO almost useless for a beginning fighter. Maki makes a great point in regards to cement.

It's one thing to hit the mat and then automatically focus on ground advantage. But in a real fight when you're not very experienced and you're landing hard on cement, the first throw/contact with the ground will normally be the deciding factor.

It could be different in the gym, of course... but if we're talking about coming out on top in a streetfight... I'd definitely prefer to know how to put my opponent on the ground. Knowing how to handle him once we both get to the ground is definitely a secondary priority.

Keith
02-05-2007, 03:43 PM
I've looked pretty well into this now, and I'm going back to watch a judo class and checking out a Muay Thai class. One thing is for sure, I miss the training in Judo. Thanks for the feedback guys!

CrazyK
02-05-2007, 06:29 PM
There's three positions of fighting. Standing, Clinch, and Ground. Muay Thai/BJJ covers all three of these. The Muay Thai is great for your clinch game(ala Anderson Silva), and a great stand up art. If in the 1/1000000 chance you end up fighting someone who is an expert in Judo then you might not have the upper hand in the clinch, but you'll have the ground skills to pull guard and eventually win the fight....


All that said, do the art which most interests you and which you'll put the most energy in to.

Keith
02-05-2007, 06:36 PM
Any difference between Mauy Thai and Mauy Thai kickboxing?

CrazyK
02-05-2007, 07:00 PM
Any difference between Mauy Thai and Mauy Thai kickboxing?It's the same thing :)

Maki Riddington
02-05-2007, 07:13 PM
There's three positions of fighting. Standing, Clinch, and Ground. Muay Thai/BJJ covers all three of these. The Muay Thai is great for your clinch game(ala Anderson Silva), and a great stand up art. If in the 1/1000000 chance you end up fighting someone who is an expert in Judo then you might not have the upper hand in the clinch, but you'll have the ground skills to pull guard and eventually win the fight....




The main point I was trying to make is that the time betwen clinching and when you go to the ground is when you can make a very devestating move in terms of finishing a fight.

In Judo we are taught to hold on after a throw. So when we throw we still have a handle on the person we've thrown. If you throw chances are you've thrown the person into a position where you can stomp their ribs out, break their arm or smash their head in with your foot.

You've made some good points and I don't mean to discredit what you are saying. I train in both BJJ and Judo, it's just that I am biased towards Judo.:)

Cirino83
02-05-2007, 07:18 PM
Not to knock martial arts, I am a huge fan of the sport, but I think it is only as good in real life as long as you don't come across a real street fighter in the streets.... just my opinion.
Before you (just in general) could get your clinch or throw he woulda already headbutted you and chinned you and all down hill from there.

CrazyK
02-05-2007, 09:25 PM
The main point I was trying to make is that the time betwen clinching and when you go to the ground is when you can make a very devestating move in terms of finishing a fight.

In Judo we are taught to hold on after a throw. So when we throw we still have a handle on the person we've thrown. If you throw chances are you've thrown the person into a position where you can stomp their ribs out, break their arm or smash their head in with your foot.

You've made some good points and I don't mean to discredit what you are saying. I train in both BJJ and Judo, it's just that I am biased towards Judo.:)Ah I see where you're coming from now. Yes getting thrown in a street fight is definately devastating, I've been on both sides of that coin. Judo is a great art, I think it comes down to more of what you're personal preference is when it comes to the BJJ/Judo arguement.

Maki Riddington
02-05-2007, 09:50 PM
I think it comes down to more of what you're personal preference is when it comes to the BJJ/Judo arguement.

Agreed.:)

Keith
02-06-2007, 09:15 AM
Damn I miss judo :(

rmccray
02-06-2007, 12:49 PM
as a former fighter i have to say that no one can teach you how to fight
if you do not know how to fight and have a fighters mentality you will be the best dojo fighter and the worse street fighter i studied KOBA-RYU and muay thai kick boxing so i would say kickboxing bermeise boxing or even american boxing would be good to train in if you wanna learn real fighting
mma is only good for mma what are the chances of an ankle lock in the parking lot? good luck in your quest

CosmicForce
02-07-2007, 04:45 AM
Recommend Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. I think the statistic says that 85% of fights go to the ground - and if you are even mildly proficient in BJJ, and the other person has no knowledge, it doesn't matter how big or strong they are, you will utterly outclass them.
Fighting Myths - notes from the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers Conference

One of the myths about personal protection is the old misquoted statistic, "90% of all fights wind up on the ground." This statistic has been used to sell ground fighting systems as the ultimate in self defense. If you have been in the martial arts or personal protection game long enough you have certainly heard this thing tossed around. You may have even heard the source - "according to the LAPD".

That statistic is wrong, AND misused.


The ASLET conference featured training in joint lock takedowns with retired sergeant John L. Sommers, the very man who conducted the use of force study with the LAPD and designed their defensive tactics program. His study looked at 6000 use of force reports from the LAPD and found that 60% of the time the arresting officer was knocked to the ground. One of the major reasons for this is that California has the 3 strikes rule and recidivist criminals are more likely to fight back to try to get away. Here are some of the main problems with the way this statistic is misused:



1. The percentage is 60% not 90% the numbers are frequently inflated to seem more convincing. While 60% is a majority, that means that more than one third of incidents did not result in an officer being knocked down. Also, the statistics did not measure "fights" but officer use of force reports.

2. The actual study was of officer use of force incidents in LA and did not study self defense situations involving civilians. You cannot apply the data from one representative sample to an entirely different population. If 98% of the population of the Philippines eats rice for three meals a day, you cannot also say that people living in Kansas also eat rice for three meals a day. It is a non-representative sample.

3. The use (misuse) of statistics is frequently combined with false but logical-sounding conclusions. A single data point is used to represent conclusions that the data does not indeed support. This makes an argument sound very credible even when it is not. Example = 100% of all people that consumed carrots in 1889 are now dead - therefore carrots kill you, so you better stop eating them.



On top of all this, the statistic is used to make people think that going to the ground is a good idea.

To quote Sergeant Sommers, (who worked with the Gracies, the Machados, Benny Urquidez and several other top martial artists) "I don't ever recommend you go to the ground." The very author of the study and designer of the training program thinks going to the ground is a very bad idea.



It sounds to me like it is a good idea to stay off the ground but know what to do if you do wind up there. This is what I have been saying, and what law enforcement and military folks have told me for years. Notice I did NOT say that you shouldn't study ground fighting. On the contrary, I think it's very important. But you do not want to waste time doing arm bars and figure 4's, you want to do what you must to get back on your feet as fast as possible.



Also keep in mind that the moment you throw somebody to the ground, climb on them, and punch them - you are committing assault and battery in most jurisdictions. The hockey dad case in Massachusetts is an example. Thomas Junta was assaulted in front of his children. He then grounded and punched his assailant who hit his head on the concrete and died. Mr. Junta is now serving time for involuntary manslaughter.





Additional information regarding civilian fights.



Male versus Male - Age 18 and up

In studying real life fights involving this group of civilians, we find that no more than 40% fights ever went to the ground. When the fights did go to the ground, it was typically due to two main reasons:

1. Ineffective technique that led to the combatants becoming fatigued and frustrated and proceeding to a grapple, and then to falling on the ground.

2. One of the combatants actually tripping and falling.



Male versus Female - Age 18 and up

The percentage is much higher with male versus female. Typically 80% or more. This is due to the nature of the attack. Men attack women for the purpose of control and exploitation, such as rape. Going to the ground is typical for these assaults.



Children versus Children

It is not uncommon for the typical schoolyard brawl to end up in a wrestling match on the ground. The assaults are usually not intended to inflict physical harm but rather to control. Hence punches and strikes may not be considered. The outcome of these altercations are typically much less severe than real adult confrontations.
Found at: http://www.edatkd.com/fighting_myths.htm

Justin R
02-07-2007, 10:53 AM
I would highly recommend looking into what kung fu or JKD schools are in your area. I have taken martial arts my whole life and never felt confident enough that I could defend myself in a serious situation until I started training in Pak Mei Kung Fu. It is an internal style based on getting in close and delivering severe damage in a very short amount of time.

People say take MMA/BJJ (which are both good for basic fighting)and that fights all end up on the ground. After taking Pak Mei, I control where the fights are. And while MMA works good in competition, with rules, it is not practical on the street where you may be dealing with weapons, or people that outclass you in weight or size. None of those factors matter in proper self defense kung fu. It is fairly similar to JKD, so if you have any JKD schools around that is another option.

If your in it for the self defense, stay away from Wushu and other more artistic martial arts, as they are extremely hard to apply to an actual fight(though many practitioners will disagree).

CrazyK
02-07-2007, 06:08 PM
I would highly recommend looking into what kung fu or JKD schools are in your area. I have taken martial arts my whole life and never felt confident enough that I could defend myself in a serious situation until I started training in Pak Mei Kung Fu. It is an internal style based on getting in close and delivering severe damage in a very short amount of time.

People say take MMA/BJJ (which are both good for basic fighting)and that fights all end up on the ground. After taking Pak Mei, I control where the fights are. And while MMA works good in competition, with rules, it is not practical on the street where you may be dealing with weapons, or people that outclass you in weight or size. None of those factors matter in proper self defense kung fu. It is fairly similar to JKD, so if you have any JKD schools around that is another option.

If your in it for the self defense, stay away from Wushu and other more artistic martial arts, as they are extremely hard to apply to an actual fight(though many practitioners will disagree).The Classic TMA .vs. MMA arguement. If this were the sherdog forums this thread would already be 20 pages long...

My take... how confident can one be if their techniques are so damaging that they can't practice on live resisting opponents? It makes me question the applicability of the techniques.

CosmicForce
02-08-2007, 09:46 PM
My take... how confident can one be if their techniques are so damaging that they can't practice on live resisting opponents? It makes me question the applicability of the techniques.
Excellent point crazyk.:nod:

retroactivism
02-09-2007, 08:51 AM
Do Judo and boxing. BJJ relies too much on pulling guard and doing slow work. Trust me, its hard to concentrate on the guy you got in guard when his buddy is still standing and stomping your face in.

CrazyK
02-09-2007, 04:09 PM
Do Judo and boxing. BJJ relies too much on pulling guard and doing slow work. Trust me, its hard to concentrate on the guy you got in guard when his buddy is still standing and stomping your face in.It's hard to throw someone when his buddy bashing your head from behind, it's hard to hit someone when his buddy tackles you from behind. ANY martial art has its flaws versus multiple opponents, and no one is saying BJJ is the ultimate self defense system. Coupled with Muay Thai or Boxing it is just as effective as any other Standup/Ground combination.

Dinosaur
02-09-2007, 09:24 PM
Go for Judo. The ground is the biggest fist you've got.

Once I feel I'm well-grounded enough in my Kyokushin Karate training, Judo will be next on my list.

retroactivism
02-12-2007, 12:45 PM
It's hard to throw someone when his buddy bashing your head from behind, it's hard to hit someone when his buddy tackles you from behind. ANY martial art has its flaws versus multiple opponents, and no one is saying BJJ is the ultimate self defense system. Coupled with Muay Thai or Boxing it is just as effective as any other Standup/Ground combination.

True enough, but I would much rather be on my feet OR on top of one opponent when I'm outnumbered. All I'm saying is BJJ is particularly weak when you're outnumbered. BJJ is more suited to 1 on 1 matches.

I agree MT is superior to boxing but the learning curve is steeper.

Edit: lol those are the icons for "out-numbered"

Justin R
02-13-2007, 01:15 PM
The Classic TMA .vs. MMA arguement. If this were the sherdog forums this thread would already be 20 pages long...

My take... how confident can one be if their techniques are so damaging that they can't practice on live resisting opponents? It makes me question the applicability of the techniques.


I agree, its as old as can be = ) It all really comes down to the practitioners skill and how well the MA is suited to his advantages.

However, I don't need to practice hitting someone in the throat, groin or other target areas to know that these techniques are effective, they are proven in self defense altercations.

I had the honor of training with someone who does a pretty good job to prove this. My Pak Mei Sifu was a NYPD officer for many years, and not a desk jockey either. He was often times in situations where his skills were needed including multiple assailant altercations and weapons.

My take would be that MMA is stronger in the ring, and TMA is stronger out of the ring. This is simply due to the fact that the point of MMA is to take TMA and extract the techniques that are effective in the RING, and not necessarily on the street.

I'm definitely a big MMA fan, and would love to find a gym to train in and participate in some fights. ANY type of fight training will give you a significant advantage over an untrained person in a confrontation, and its insanely good cardio to boot = )

Hazerboy
02-19-2007, 10:51 PM
Pf. If you're just interested in self defense, just learn how to avoid a fight.

Y0yo
02-20-2007, 04:31 AM
Pf. If you're just interested in self defense, just learn how to avoid a fight.

And when a man comes into your home with a bat or worse, and you aren't sure that he only plans on stealing your stuff, how do you 'avoid' a fight?

Hazerboy
02-20-2007, 12:40 PM
And when a man comes into your home with a bat or worse, and you aren't sure that he only plans on stealing your stuff, how do you 'avoid' a fight?

Ugh. Seriously, if THIS is the reason you're spending years studying martial arts, in the event that you'll either be mugged on the street or someone will break into your house, you've got your priorities all mixed up. Learn how to avoid a fight, buy a good lock, a home security system, or a gun. Any one of those will avoid this issue.

Muggings and break ins don't happen nearly as often as the media would lead you to believe. If I remember the movie correctly, in Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" crime reportage has gone up 600% in the last 10 or 20 years, while the actually crime rate has gone down in the united states. Unless you live in a 3rd world country, people simply aren't brawling in the streets anymore, or raping and pillaging houses.

Don't get me wrong, I love martial arts - I respect it for the physical conditioning it requires as well as the discipline and self confidence it teaches. However, in this day and age, its simply an ineffective means of defending yourself against a threat thats almost nonexistent. Training in martial arts in the event that you either get in a fight or your house is broken into is like training in powerlifting in the event that a large boulder is blocking your path on the way to work in the morning. Simply take another route to work, or in this case - learn how to avoid a fight and protect your house.

Dinosaur
02-20-2007, 03:46 PM
And when a man comes into your home with a bat or worse, and you aren't sure that he only plans on stealing your stuff, how do you 'avoid' a fight?

You use your Shotgun-Jitsu skills.

mr.giggles
03-05-2007, 08:25 PM
Not to knock martial arts, I am a huge fan of the sport, but I think it is only as good in real life as long as you don't come across a real street fighter in the streets.... just my opinion.
Before you (just in general) could get your clinch or throw he woulda already headbutted you and chinned you and all down hill from there.


Isn't JKD a martial art?? They teach eye gouges/any means necessary to get your opponent down..

I've been into MMA since i was 7 and just because I was taught to respect my opponent doesn't mean I couldn't throw in a low blow or headbutt if i were in a street fight lolz.

mr.giggles
03-05-2007, 08:26 PM
And when a man comes into your home with a bat or worse, and you aren't sure that he only plans on stealing your stuff, how do you 'avoid' a fight?

You shoot him because it's not really a fight, he will be dead before a punch is thrown..

Kenshi
03-05-2007, 10:07 PM
Since this is sorta my thing, I'll throw in my two Yen. Though I'll say, much good information has been mentioned already. ^_^

For one, if anybody came to me and asked me "Mike, I want to start doing martial arts. Where should I go?", the immediate first words out of my mouth would be "Why?"; and not simply for the sake of being able to get all sagely on them either. Rather, because I have noticed people genuinely interested in martial art divide inot two groups:

1) People interested in developing a skillset that enables them to defend themselves in altercations.

2) People who value the totality of what martial art training offers(Mind, Body, and spirit) and approaches training truly as atheltic expression of the human soul. Or, as Bruce Lee put it, "Self-Actualization".

It is not necessarily better to be in one group or the other, that's just what I've noticed. If the poster believes he wants to seriously dig into Martial Art, then take some time to find a dojo and an Art that really calls out to you and study it deeply. If self defense skills are all that are at the endpoint, find a place that does not emphasize too much tournament fighting and has self-defense as a major part of the core cirriculum.

As far as which art, or "Style" goes, I would say again whatever you favor. The only real flags that would denote a "bad" art is anything that smells of more of a business-focused agenda on Sensei or Sifu's part, or major ties to tournament fighting. Not to knock arts like Brazilian/Gracie Jujutsu&Muay Thai, but these arts are commonly trained for the purpose of tournament fighting&Sparring; not every Muay Thai and BJJ place has a strong emphasis on taking those concepts and techniques and applying them to the ugly reality of fighting. They have been getting lots of press lately thanks to UFC and such, so I would use this as a segway into my "Do not join a dojo only because of name-brand recognition; whatever the style." line.

Also, I'll say a word about the Filipino martial art. In addition to *slightly* more practical weapon training, the focus on simplicity can deliver those street-effective skills perhaps a bit easier than some of the other arts; and still retain depth if you decide to stick with it.

Most likely though, if the poster does indeed live in Japan, Judo or the aforementioned Kempo place should be pretty good. I did Kempo for seven years before jumping onto the Jeet Kune Do-Concept bandwagon. Not bad stuff at all.

After all of that, I'll say also that fi you are looking for a more "inward" training experience that doesn't rely on strength and agression as much as arts like Karate/Boxing/Judo&Jujutsu, the poster should take adavantage of the fact he pretty much lives where most of us want to: The martial-art mecca called Japan. Arts such as Akido, Akijujutsu, and Kenjutsu(though, maybe not for self-defense since I doubt you'll be able to carry a Katana around with you), etc. should be all around you; with instructors of a quality we could barely find here in the states. Internal arts like Tai Chi Chuan, Hsing-Yi Chuan, and if you're super-lucky Ba Gua Zhang may also be around if you feel like getting in touch with your internal body. Granted, you'll have to hold back on using a lot of that external strength to really excel at them, but each one does actually have it's own effective self-defense methods; or at least somehting you can take to an external art and improve the mind/body connection.

Well, that's me.

Kenshi
03-05-2007, 10:09 PM
Oh, and Jeet Kune Do is martial art, but the Dan Inosanto people(which i happen to train with) hold to the ideas Bruce talked about and do not really identify ourselves as a "style". rather, a mode of expressing the human body and brekaing down the barriers imposed by partialized conditioning.

And, we do have things like eye-gouges, groin-kicks, etc.

mr.giggles
03-06-2007, 08:45 AM
Oh, and Jeet Kune Do is martial art, but the Dan Inosanto people(which i happen to train with) hold to the ideas Bruce talked about and do not really identify ourselves as a "style". rather, a mode of expressing the human body and brekaing down the barriers imposed by partialized conditioning.

And, we do have things like eye-gouges, groin-kicks, etc.

You are lucky to have a good trainer.. very lucky, I took jkd for one day and thought my trainer was a joke, and no he isn't from the lee family etc

GTA
01-07-2009, 08:28 PM
any type of Grappling,plus striking. I train strictly in BJJ under Relson Gracie Black bhelt Phil Migliarese,and Brown Belt Rich Komar. Its highly effective for the street. Dont get Sport BJJ confused with gracie BJJ,it was made for the street. Its good to know some striking,ie western Boxing ,Muay Thai etc.There are alot of "MMA" gyms opening up without solid instructors and bull**** curriculum. Be careful. If you want a way to see if your getting legit MMA,BJJ,trace your instructors lineage to a Gracie. Here's mine: Helio Gracie
to
RelsonGracie
to
PhilMigliarese
to
Rich Komar
to
M E

Mcarnage
01-07-2009, 10:25 PM
I am an mma fighter with a 3-0 record all k.o's,.
If you where to pick a single martial art for self defense I'd pick Boxing.
Submissions are great don't get me wrong, I train hard on my b.j.j but
realistically. Most gyms that are teaching you it are teaching you the techniques, so you will develop the technique but might lack the grit.
A fight is a fight and what ever you have to do to win is what you do.
Good old fashion boxing, will get you that toughness that you need and you'll learn to hit.
but also go with your instinct because it really depends on you, you could be more suited for b.j.j or boxing. Just don't bother with Karate or tae kwondo etc

manowar669
01-09-2009, 10:36 AM
marksmanship and speed reloading.
EXACTLY
Anything that gets you out of the situation with as little damage as possible is best, so I'll say running like hell is good self defense, or better yet, get your CCW if your state allows, and defend yourself like a civilized man. Anything worth fighting for, is worth dying or killing for. Carry your gun or your pride, not both. Fistfights are for children.

I'd say BJJ is a poor choice for self defense, simply because it doesn't allow for multiple opponents. If you're tied up with one opponent on the ground, be assured his two buddies are kicking you in the face, or stabbing you to death. If you have to pick something, I'd say Krav Maga is up there.

fpr
01-09-2009, 11:23 AM
WOW, 3 whole fights, and you weigh 155lbs!!! Damn boy, you are a monster fo sho :omg:


I am an mma fighter with a 3-0 record all k.o's,.
If you where to pick a single martial art for self defense I'd pick Boxing.
Submissions are great don't get me wrong, I train hard on my b.j.j but
realistically. Most gyms that are teaching you it are teaching you the techniques, so you will develop the technique but might lack the grit.
A fight is a fight and what ever you have to do to win is what you do.
Good old fashion boxing, will get you that toughness that you need and you'll learn to hit.
but also go with your instinct because it really depends on you, you could be more suited for b.j.j or boxing. Just don't bother with Karate or tae kwondo etc

Circuit5kv
01-10-2009, 12:54 AM
Jui jitsu is truly the best one to know.

Phil Bailey
01-18-2009, 08:02 PM
I think some people have gotten MMA on their minds way too much when it comes to street self defense. MMA is for sport and not for the street. If you are really looking for an effective form of street self defense then you should look into Krav Maga (this was mentioned before). Krav Maga is used by the Isreal army and utilizes the best techniques for combat survival. Yes the art was actually designed for getting out of real life situations.

Muay Thai is great, and I have trained in Muay Thai and specialize in BJJ, but it is not best for the streets because Muay thai is used mainly for sport combat. You have to consider that in the streets there ARE NO RULES. These martial arts that have been mentioned are sports oriented (including boxing).

If you are in the street, you don't want to necissarily get too close to your opponent(s). You want to get in, take them out, and get out. If you rely on BJJ or Judo, you will take the guy down try to subdue him in a joint lock or hold. But that doesn't take into consideration if the guy decides to put his finger in your eye socket, trie,s to bite you or if he has a buddy who decides to kick you while you are down. This is the streets and anything can and will happen.

If you are truly interested in defending your self on the street, then look at arts that are designed for just that. Street fighting is truly no holds barred. On the street people will poke your eyes, bite you, pull a weapon.

If you want to see krav maga in action, then download the series Human Weapon. Jason Chambers is a MMA fighter who specializes in BJJ under eddie Bravo (Eddie is a BJJ black belt under Jean Jacque Machado) and is a decent stand up fighter. Watch the different episodes and then watch the Krav Maga episode. You will see how his MMA skills faired in a real life situation. You may be surprised. I was when I watched the episode and it really opened my eyes.

For those who believe in avoiding fight, keep this in mind. If someone is intent on fighting you or trying to hurt the ones you care about then guess what, you have no choice but to fight. That's reality.

CrazyK
01-19-2009, 02:36 PM
The problem with Krav Maga is it's highly faked (bogus instructors) and somewhat unrealistic for your average street confrontation. I understand that if in a military battle you might have to attempt to manually disarm an attacker wielding a knife or gun but in real life you put your hands up and give him the damn wallet or whatever he wants.

I agree that straight boxing is the best for most confrontations. I worked as a bouncer for years and almost every fight I saw ended up with 2-3 punches being thrown and one guy either knocked out or people stepping in to break it up.

Phil Bailey
01-19-2009, 04:25 PM
I understand what you are saying about bogus instructors, however you'll find that in any art form including boxing. The problem with boxing is that it's great if you're boxing, but if someone is rushing you, even dirty boxing can have it's limitations. The key point has been made and that is one of the hardest things is to find a legit instructor. But I still put my money on Krav Maga. Find a good instructor and your on your way. I poke in the eye goes a long way and can stop someone quickly.

GTA
03-24-2009, 06:16 PM
BJJ was created as the ultimate self defense system. The gracie self defense system teaches you to fight from anywhere.Im very suprised at all you so called BJJers not knowing this.i guess they dont teach that on sherdog,you would actually have to get off the couch and hit a gym to know that.Just youtube Phil migliarese's tribute to Helio gracie and see what i mean.Better yet here you go http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aeg926nPCGQ

squat huge
03-30-2009, 04:24 PM
I don't know what the best martial art is, but I do think judo is very effective. Here is why. Every technique we utilize can be practiced to its fullest extent, and it does get practiced to its full extent. You can not practice poking someone's eye out. If you do you no longer have a training partner. In the high school judo teams in Japan the older kids will choke out the younger ones even if they tap, and when I say kids keep in mind that world championships have been won by 18 and 19 year olds; they're bad-ass! In judo there are several throws, but most judoka specialize in one. For those judoka out there what is Kosei Inoue's throw? Uchimata right? How about Koga? You get the point. Their opponents know exactly what throw they will use and yet they can not stop them. The effectiveness of a technique is very dependent on your physical structure as well as your opponents. I would never try seoi on a 5'5" guy because I am 6'3". I know from experience that there are certain body types that I can't execute a triangle choke on very well. This knowledge can only really be understood from practicing the techniques to their fulllest on as many different opponents as possible. You simply can't do that with biting or eye poking.
Even trying to put your hands on an elite judoka is very difficult. Judo is obviously very incomplete because there is no striking. However the world's greatest fighter (Fedor), got his start in Judo and became the Russian heavy weight champ.
BJJ exists because a Judo master named Maeda traveled to Brazil and taught Carlos and his younger brother Helio, judo. This was in the 1920's and judo was still refered to by some as "kano jiu-jitsu". Kano was the founder of judo.
A guy named Masahiko Kimura traveled to Brazil in 1955 to fight Helio. Kimura was 5'7". He threw Helio repeatedly. Choked him unconscious (as admitted by Helio in an interview), and finally broke his arm with ude-garami as it is known in judo. Helio was so impressed with Kimura that he named the arm-lock the Kimura as it is still refered to today in BJJ and MMA. In an attempt to regain his fathers honor, Royce fought an olympic judoka named Yoshida and Yoshida choked him out. In my opinion Judo and BJJ are almost identical with respect to the ground work. The stand up is another story.
BTW did you guys know that this post is over 2 years old,

manowar669
04-03-2009, 06:49 AM
BJJ isn't going to fare well when the guy is biting pieces out of you, gouging your eyes out, or snapping off a finger. Let alone even a small knife. Are you going to grapple with a guy with a knife? Look around the web for the graphic pics of the police officer that was sliced open. He lived, but it makes a shark attack look like a skinned knee. MMA is not for the streets. It'll help more than an untrained person, but it might get you killed if you think "I won X fights in the octagon, I can take this guy" and then he hits you with a bottle, a chair, and the kitchen sink.

DaRican
04-03-2009, 08:46 AM
i do brazilian ju jitsu. and soon starting muay thai. wit thai boxing u have the striking factor, n with the brazilian ju jitsu u have ur grapple. both soild for which ever way the fight turns out.

Y2A
04-03-2009, 10:59 AM
MMA can be useful in the streets, depending on the circumstance. If someone has a knife or a gun, maybe not, but if you have someone in a rear naked choke and they are biting your arm, I bet you can make them pass out faster than they make you let go. Some kind of military style that deals with disarming weapons and non-sport tactics (groin shots, etc) is probably best - Krav Maga being one of those.

Phil Bailey
04-06-2009, 03:32 PM
Y2A, Keep in mind if you are on the street and someone bites you, there is a great chance that they would pass out first, but at what cost. What disease can the guy give you with that bite. He could be dead, but that doesn't change the fact that your screwed as well. People have to keep in mind that anything involvining getting close to someone to pull off a technique runs the risk of something like this happening. I have a few buddies who are cops in a really bad area and this is always a threat they have to contend with.

Y2A
04-07-2009, 08:02 AM
Totally agree, I would not rate MMA as the best street fighting art out there. I just don't think it's the worst either.

JoeGrinD
04-07-2009, 11:47 AM
I'd recommend the style that is no style (JKD). Along with some weapons based art like Kali and you're covered for all planes of fighting.

MadScientist
04-07-2009, 01:30 PM
Just forget the fluffy striking and disable your assailant.

Black Medicine: The Dark Art of Death
Dragon's Touch: Weaknesses Of The Human Anatomy
Guge Gongji: Seven Primary Targets To Take Anyone Out Of A Fight
Advanced Dragons Touch: 20 Anatomical Targets And Techniques for Taking Them Out

ZenMonkey
04-07-2009, 01:52 PM
Ive done lots of research into this. Ive spent about 3 years going to various gyms and watching classes. Ive been to a Judo, Muay Thai, BJJ and Shaolin Kung Fu. I decided that Shaolin Kung Fu would be best for an "all around" stye. Additionally, most shaolin dojos offer chigong and tai chi meditation as a part of the kung fu.

I think once I spend some time with this I might look into one of the other 3 (BJJ, MT, Judo).


Anyone have any experience with Shaolin Kung Fu?

squat huge
04-08-2009, 05:50 PM
The techniques in Judo and jujitsu were developed by samurai warriors. The samurai could possibly be the greatest "street" fighter in history, and they used very deadly weapons. Despite wielding the katana they thought it was worth their time to master the grappling arts. Throws, chokes, joint locks,...
Now that I think about it, I actually got bit once in a fight. It really hurt!

squat huge
04-08-2009, 05:57 PM
Ive done lots of research into this. Ive spent about 3 years going to various gyms and watching classes. Ive been to a Judo, Muay Thai, BJJ and Shaolin Kung Fu. I decided that Shaolin Kung Fu would be best for an "all around" stye. Additionally, most shaolin dojos offer chigong and tai chi meditation as a part of the kung fu.

I think once I spend some time with this I might look into one of the other 3 (BJJ, MT, Judo).


Anyone have any experience with Shaolin Kung Fu?

I did Shaolin Kung Fu for about a year. It was really cool, and the workouts were extremely chalenging. I never felt like I was able to truely test my skill. Pressure point strikes are great in theory, but they don't end fights like dropping someone on their head. If it is good against several opponents than it should be effective against one and I have never seen it used successively in mma against a single opponent.

ThomasG
04-09-2009, 07:04 PM
Damn I miss judo :(

Why did you stop?

squat huge
04-09-2009, 11:48 PM
Ugh. Seriously, if THIS is the reason you're spending years studying martial arts, in the event that you'll either be mugged on the street or someone will break into your house, you've got your priorities all mixed up. Learn how to avoid a fight, buy a good lock, a home security system, or a gun. Any one of those will avoid this issue.

Muggings and break ins don't happen nearly as often as the media would lead you to believe. If I remember the movie correctly, in Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine" crime reportage has gone up 600% in the last 10 or 20 years, while the actually crime rate has gone down in the united states. Unless you live in a 3rd world country, people simply aren't brawling in the streets anymore, or raping and pillaging houses.

Don't get me wrong, I love martial arts - I respect it for the physical conditioning it requires as well as the discipline and self confidence it teaches. However, in this day and age, its simply an ineffective means of defending yourself against a threat thats almost nonexistent. Training in martial arts in the event that you either get in a fight or your house is broken into is like training in powerlifting in the event that a large boulder is blocking your path on the way to work in the morning. Simply take another route to work, or in this case - learn how to avoid a fight and protect your house.

Good point.

prettyboyfloyd
04-10-2009, 07:48 AM
Kickboxing for me.

VikingWarlord
04-10-2009, 08:46 AM
After reading through this, it makes me wonder how many of the 'XXXXX is the best for the real world" people have ever actually been attacked in the real world and forced to defend themselves.

My bet is probably less than a quarter.

J.C.
04-10-2009, 01:30 PM
After reading through this, it makes me wonder how many of the 'XXXXX is the best for the real world" people have ever actually been attacked in the real world and forced to defend themselves.

My bet is probably less than a quarter.

true dat.

I had a few self-defense lessons at my school with this nutcase who actually had been in loads of fights. He claimed he used to wait for fights in pubs in dodgy areas so that he could break them up.

He did aikido and had some other training but was actually a bit fat and looked out of shape. He had a bunch of mean tattoos though and looked hard as nails. Seemed like he could handle himself.

It was so funny because we went along expecting the whole "you learn this so you may never have to use it - it is the way to inner peace" crap. Instead we got this burly geezer going "right, here's how you disarm him and force him to drop the knife, then don't just stop there; this will break his wrist, his elbow and his shoulder - bastard won't be getting up after that!"

He said if he caught a robber in his house, he'd break his legs, take him to the top of a hill nearby, tie him up in the trees and cut "THIEF" into his forehead, before leaving. A genuinely scary guy I would not want to fight.

one rep under
04-10-2009, 06:48 PM
I'd love to do Judo and BJJ for ground game. Probably gonna start doing one or the other this summer.
For stand up id pick Krav maga or muy thai