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luckee001
01-05-2007, 09:12 AM
I am currently female, 100 pounds, lean, and bulking.

I need some help with pre/during/post w/o nutrition

I have b-fast in the morning of oats, egg whites, veggies, and soy milk

then pre-workout I take a scoop of dymatize Xpand

During my workout I take 2 scoops of Xtend, mixed with 10 grams dextrose

Post workout I currently take a scoop of sustain (mix of casein and whey), 15 grams dex, and .25 cups oats (hoping for a steady release of protein and carbs- thus the mix of fast and slow)

Then an hour or so later I have a meal w/ complex carbs, protein, and veggies

First of all, I want to know if this is too much/too little for size? Again, I am trying to put on LEAN MASS. Second, instead of the postworkout shake, could I just have another scoop of Xtend (which equals 10 grams protein) and 10 grams dex... and then have a meal within 45 minutes of complex carbs, protein, and veggies? or is this too late? Finally, is this enough BCAA's? currently I only get two scoops of Xtend.... that is why i was thinking of just having another serving of Xtend PW instead of the whey. should I do both? I think that would be overdoing the protein though... I am only 100 pounds and that would be over 40 grams protein total

stepto180
01-05-2007, 10:56 AM
I think that is enough bcaas for some one so light
I dont think 40 grams of protien is too much
getting 200 grams of protien would be good for you on a bulk expecially on a bulk its good clean food that will only help muscles grow
I would suggest that you take a whey shake before your workout along with the creatine
then eat the whole foods after your workout

luckee001
01-05-2007, 01:52 PM
so should I nix the protein shake post workout (with the oats, dex, and sustain)? And just take another scoop of Xtend? I am a little confused about Xtend in general- could someone theoretically just take like 2 servings of xtend postworkout rather than a scoop of whey and get the same amount of protein? If Xtend is 10 grams protein/scoop, then wouldn't that be 20 grams protein? How is it different?

I am really confused on this whole post workout thing and I know it is really important so any help ya'll can give would be great. How much (if any) dextrose should I take? My workouts usually go over an hour so that is why I am concerned with the during workout nutrition.... would it be better to sip on some dex DURING or save it all for post? or not at all? thanks!

Built
01-05-2007, 01:57 PM
luckee, I did a bit of a writeup on this here (http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=274)and some more here (http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=282).

luckee001
01-05-2007, 07:46 PM
thanks Built, so do you think my postworkout protocol is ok? I read the articles... but still a little confused... according to the protocol I have too much protein....

could I nix the whey/dex shake and opt for one serving of xtend (10 grams BCAAs) and 10 grams dextrose instead, and then eat a meal? Which is better for muscle building? How is the protein in Xtend different than whey protein? COuld someone theoretically use all BCAA's for their protein post workout instead of whey? Are BCAA's absorbed rapidly? Also, is it ok that the protein I am using is not a whey protein, it is a a mix (designer sustain). I have heard good things about casein/whey mixes.

Last question- I promise- If I need 2000 calories do you see anything wrong doing a macro split of something like 200 grams protein,200 grams carbs, 45 grams fat? I really don't feel comfortable going over 200-220 grams carbs, and I'd rather not increase my fats anymore. I won't "damage" my body by taking in this amount of protein will I? Won't I possibly have leaner gains than if I took in more carbohydrates?

Built
01-05-2007, 07:51 PM
Higher protein is fine.

Not sure why you don't want fats any higher, but your split certainly looks adequate.

I have no experience with BCAAs, so I'll reserve comment there.

stepto180
01-07-2007, 11:40 PM
i dont have any experienc with dexetrose but i do with bcaa's

the blend i take has no protien in it....i have never taken xtend but when i looked it up i didnt see any protien where are you getting you info maybe its different then the site I saw
bcaa's are branched chain amino acids not protien maybe thats whats confuseing you?

I did suggest to cut the post work out shake out and sip on the bcaas during
then the whole foods like 30 -45 min after your workout would be sufficent
but this can be a heavily debated topic in the lifting world(pre/during/post workout nutrition)

8.8
01-08-2007, 12:08 AM
like step said bcaa's are not protein sip on thoughout the workout optimally- but i would say keep your post workout shake of sustain and dextrose ( no oats) then have a whole food meal about an hour -90 mins later

stepto180
01-08-2007, 12:16 AM
like step said bcaa's are not protein sip on thoughout the workout optimally- but i would say keep your post workout shake of sustain and dextrose ( no oats) then have a whole food meal about an hour -90 mins later

you like it after not before??? when do u take creatine (i know you cycle at meals) but pre or post workout?

8.8
01-08-2007, 12:28 AM
you like it after not before??? when do u take creatine (i know you cycle at meals) but pre or post workout?

i like whole foods an hour before - and then protein/dextrose again either thoughout or after the workout- creatine will be with that shake

luckee001
01-08-2007, 09:02 AM
thanks for the reply. How much malto/dex do you think I should use for my size? I am going to be getting around 50 grams carbs in my next meal about 60-70 minutes later. I am also taking 10 grams dex with my BCAAs during my workout. So how much should I add with my whey? I don't want it to "overspill" into fat stores, but I want to optimize recovery so I can gain muscle mass and strength.... thanks so much for your help!

also,can I use malto instead of dex or is dex better, and why?

8.8
01-08-2007, 10:19 PM
id say no dextrose or malodextrin with your whey if your taking it with your bcaa's and from my knowledge there both just as good

Slim Schaedle
01-08-2007, 10:52 PM
thanks for the reply. How much malto/dex do you think I should use for my size? I am going to be getting around 50 grams carbs in my next meal about 60-70 minutes later. I am also taking 10 grams dex with my BCAAs during my workout. So how much should I add with my whey? I don't want it to "overspill" into fat stores, but I want to optimize recovery so I can gain muscle mass and strength.... thanks so much for your help!

also,can I use malto instead of dex or is dex better, and why?

10 grams during a workout, or after even, would fill only a fraction of the liver.

You're not going to spill over with an amount of that little, or even a little more than that.

Clifford Gillmore
01-09-2007, 04:23 AM
10 grams during a workout, or after even, would fill only a fraction of the liver.

You're not going to spill over with an amount of that little, or even a little more than that.

So working on a 200lbs male at 12%, is there going to be an average to needed glycogen replacement? Or is it gonig to be completely varible from workout to workout, metabolisim to metabolisim?

luckee001
01-09-2007, 07:16 AM
OK so either 10 grams with my BCAA's DURING my workout, OR 10 grams after in my PW shake? Which is more optimal? Do I need the oats in the oats in my pW shake then, or is 10 grams carbs enough?

jostrichm
01-09-2007, 08:00 AM
"I am currently female..." lmao, sorry found that amusing ;)

ddegroff
01-09-2007, 11:01 AM
OK so either 10 grams with my BCAA's DURING my workout, OR 10 grams after in my PW shake? Which is more optimal? Do I need the oats in the oats in my pW shake then, or is 10 grams carbs enough?

I use ground oats about an hour before my workout and right after. Works great for me. Ten grams of carbs really isn't going to make that much of a difference.

Most will say the dex will be more optimal than oats, but I don't think it will make that much of a difference.

luckee001
01-09-2007, 01:38 PM
but how MANY grams of carbs should I take in? I am having a meal within an dhour that has 40-50 grams complex carbs. how many do I need during my workout/pw shake to "tie me over"? My workouts last 60-90 minutes.

ddegroff
01-09-2007, 04:55 PM
I can't tell you an exact amount, try it out. Ten may work, 20g may, 30g, experiment and figure out what works for you.

Slim Schaedle
01-09-2007, 05:07 PM
So working on a 200lbs male at 12%, is there going to be an average to needed glycogen replacement? Or is it gonig to be completely varible from workout to workout, metabolisim to metabolisim?

The length, intensity, etc is going to be the main determinant is assigning a number.

Additionally, diet and training methods such as glycogen depletion/high rep schemes are going to play major roles in determining fuel source.

We're obviously using ATP stores when lifting, which get regenerated. If you are pumping away the reps and enduring that lactate burn, that is eating into glycogen stores as well.

So ya, a variety of factors can makes things complicated. You could get into all kinds of mathmatics and nutrient timing issues/thearoies, but the easiest thing to do is just pick a number and roll with it, and see how you feel/look/perform.

Slim Schaedle
01-09-2007, 05:11 PM
but how MANY grams of carbs should I take in? I am having a meal within an dhour that has 40-50 grams complex carbs. how many do I need during my workout/pw shake to "tie me over"? My workouts last 60-90 minutes.

I have the answer but it is a secret, and I'm not telling you.





J/k :) Just read my post above. Or read what Built posted.

In terms of BCAA's, I have a feeling she did not comment only b/c she does not have experience with them. The popular verdict here (WBB) is that it is a waste of money, taking in account you get enough protein elsewhere in your diet. Whey would easily suffice in pre and post nutrition. Due to anecdotal evidence amongst many people here or on other boards, this is highly debateable.