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MagnaSephiroth
02-11-2007, 04:52 PM
So I have been on my cut for about a month and a half, with the difference in my daily carbs now from the end of my bulk being about 300g. Recently, for the past few days, I have began to feel somewhat weak. My legs would get a little wobbly and working out was hard. I thought it was just cause of not eating enough during the day, but it continued even when I was eatting how I had been. It does go away after I eat my biggest meal (usually in the morning, and usually carbs) but I'm wondering if this is just a phase or if I need to bump the carbs up a bit or something.

the doc
02-12-2007, 08:50 AM
imo you either need to go ketogenic (less than 100g carb/day; preferably less than 60/day) or balance your carbs throughout the day.

Slim Schaedle
02-12-2007, 08:55 AM
Take enough caffeine and ephedrine and you will feel great.


I had some of my best workouts ever after a week of carb depletion.

the doc
02-12-2007, 09:00 AM
or follow slim's advice. I forgot about the good 'ol stimulant option

MagnaSephiroth
02-12-2007, 10:36 PM
Take enough caffeine and ephedrine and you will feel great.


I had some of my best workouts ever after a week of carb depletion.

How many mg of caffine should I take? and when should I take them

Slim Schaedle
02-12-2007, 11:03 PM
How many mg of caffine should I take? and when should I take them

While I was doing UD2 and at 80g carbs/day, I used 200mg caffeine and 25mg ephedrine.

This was 3 times daily, normally upon waking, before lifting, and sometime mid-day or late afternoon if I lifted early in the day.

Built
02-12-2007, 11:09 PM
imo you either need to go ketogenic (less than 100g carb/day; preferably less than 60/day) or balance your carbs throughout the day.

What do you mean by balanced through the day - eat them with each meal?

No disrespect intended, but why would that matter?

Max Thunder
02-13-2007, 07:06 AM
It takes time to adapt to a ketogenic diet.

It can take up to 6 weeks (or more) to really be fully adapted at burning fat & ketones, but you can be "semi-adapted" much faster than that. If you keep eating too much carbs you'll never be fully adapted, as the body doesn't really have a reason to.
Keep the carbs low, the fat high, and work through it.

the doc
02-13-2007, 07:51 AM
What do you mean by balanced through the day - eat them with each meal?



see max thunder post plus
if you are not going to go ketogenic but somewhere inbetween, then my experience has been that eating some carbs in each meal will help to alleviate syptoms of ketogenic "fog" and the shakes. Feel free to have more around workout - but some will be needed (an exception might be made for before sleep where you would not notice them due to being asleep).

it matters because blood sugar will be more balanced.
the op wants to alleviate the syptoms he mentioned

Mr. D
02-13-2007, 10:00 AM
i think the doc is making a cased for a TKD instead of a CKD.

Slim Schaedle
02-13-2007, 10:05 AM
For what it is worth, spreading carb intake throughout the day while on UD2 made me feel better.

ArchAngel777
02-13-2007, 10:09 AM
Because the carb intake was so stinking low on UD2.0, I didn't notice at difference from when I loaded all 50g at one sitting or whether I spread them out. 50g of carbs is a small ammount anyway.

I agree that if spreading them out helps the "fog" effect, by all means, otherwise I don't think it is such a huge deal as to whether these are eaten all at once or not.

Mr. D
02-13-2007, 10:20 AM
hey ArchAngel, when you enter your foods into fitday while on Ud2.0, what number do you use for carbs?

Carbs?Carbs-fiber?Or doyou use the number fitday shows as calories contributed by carbs?

I have been doing UD2.0 for 4-5 weeks now, my carb number is usually 85g and fiber is 25g. So would it be safe to say Im eating 60g carb?

ArchAngel777
02-13-2007, 10:43 AM
hey ArchAngel, when you enter your foods into fitday while on Ud2.0, what number do you use for carbs?

Carbs?Carbs-fiber?Or doyou use the number fitday shows as calories contributed by carbs?

I have been doing UD2.0 for 4-5 weeks now, my carb number is usually 85g and fiber is 25g. So would it be safe to say Im eating 60g carb?


That is quite the complicated question. It depends on how you currently have those figured out. Do those 85 INCLUDE the 25 grams of fiber? Or would that be in addition to it? Food labels in different countries are differerent, so it is hard to know.

But, regardless of the question, it doesn't matter if it is 60g or 85g. Lyle mentioned in the book that he doesn't care about being in a ketogenic state, in fact, he argues that getting some carbs is better than getting none as far as sparing the body breaking down muscle protein and using it for fuel. So, in some ways getting to many carbs is probably a better idea than getting to few of them. But that is subject to debate, as with everything.

Also, if you have read the forums over at www.bodyrecomposition.com you will find that Lyle no longer believes that ketogenic diets are superior to fat loss (he even touches on this in UD2.0, which is why the statement "I don't care about Ketosis").

And, because I am a pretty ****ty writer, I probably left you more confused than if I didn't say anything at all. It all makes sense in my head, though :D

But given your scenario, I personally do the following when figuring out caloric intake

Fiber = 2 calories per gram
Sorbitol (only sugar alcohol I comsume *Gum*) = 2.5 calories per gram
Other Carbs = 4 calories per gram.

So, I would take all the grams, add up all their values in terms of calories and then divide it by 4. That would be what I consider my total carb intake. It is beyond anal, but that is the way I figure it out.

Example

10g sorbitol
10g fiber
40g carbohydrates

10 X 2 = 20
10 X 2.5 = 25
40 X 4 = 160

160 + 25 + 20 = 205

205 / 4 = 51.25 grams

Whatnever you see recomendations on grams for a given diet, you need to presume that they are using the standard average measurement. So 4-4-9. When someone says you shouldn't have more than 50 grams of carbs per day, they are really saying that you shouldn't have more than 200 calories of carbs per day.

Mr. D
02-13-2007, 10:55 AM
I think this is what fitday does:

Total Carbs = 85g
Fiber = 25g

However the cals contributed by carbs is listed at 240. But when you total the cals from fat,protein,and carbs it DOESNT add up to the total cals listed. However if you add the fiber x 2 to that number, it does equal the total cals listed.


I still think its too much carbs, thats why i extended it out to the 2 week version.I find this a little more satisfying because eating at 30% of maintence lets me to add the remaining cals with fat. In the regular version, fat intake is minimal except for maybe on day 6 or 7 (or 7&8 if you follow 8 day cycle). This way days 1-10, i get a great deal of fat intake, days 11 and 12 are carb load and very low fat, days 13 and 14 are moderate fat intake days.

Built
02-13-2007, 06:16 PM
see max thunder post plus
if you are not going to go ketogenic but somewhere inbetween, then my experience has been that eating some carbs in each meal will help to alleviate syptoms of ketogenic "fog" and the shakes. Feel free to have more around workout - but some will be needed (an exception might be made for before sleep where you would not notice them due to being asleep).

it matters because blood sugar will be more balanced.
the op wants to alleviate the syptoms he mentioned

Hmmm. I don't eat any carb (other than the little bit in some broccoli or lettuce with my low-carb meals) except for pre and post workout. No fog.

I eat a lot of fat though. And I AM really used to it.

I guess it varies.

the doc
02-13-2007, 10:33 PM
i am straight ketogenic and have been for a while.... notice the op has very recently dropped 300 g of daily carbs (and thus has not adapted as evidenced by his symptoms)

MagnaSephiroth
02-14-2007, 10:32 PM
Well for an update, I havn't had the weakness problem for a couple of days, and have gone through 2 workout days just fine. I found out it had more to due with food in general, not just carbs. Carbs to me are more filling because you can usually fluff them up with water, such as oatmeal or Cream of wheat, just add more water and you fill your belly up more (even though kcals stay the same)

I have balanced my eatting better and have noticed a big difference :)

the doc
02-15-2007, 07:41 AM
glad you are doing better. it takes some getting used to

LaxGuy16
02-15-2007, 09:43 AM
Would Crystal Light have any negative affects on a ketogenic diet?

the doc
02-15-2007, 09:47 AM
it has a few carbs/serving. count them but I'd say they alone would not kick you out (of ketosis)