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SEALBound
02-13-2007, 08:14 PM
I'm on a cut, trying to get below about 100g carbs a day.

I notice though, that some of the things I do eat and drink throughout the day contain sugar, like my nutrigrain bars and lemonaide. Are these simple carbs, aka sugar hurting me? Or will my body burn and use it quick enough before it stores?

Questor
02-13-2007, 09:25 PM
You should not cut your carbs this low. Aim to get 40%-60% of your calories from carbs. Mind you - they should be complex, low-gi carbs hi in nutrients. Artichokes, avocados, apples, potatoes, greens, legumes, etc.

Sugars are not helpful. Your bars are probably not as healthy as you think they are.

Eat an apple insteat. :)

Mr. D
02-13-2007, 09:29 PM
You should not cut your carbs this low. Aim to get 40%-60% of your calories from carbs. Mind you - they should be complex, low-gi carbs hi in nutrients. Artichokes, avocados, apples, potatoes, greens, legumes, etc.

Sugars are not helpful. Your bars are probably not as healthy as you think they are.

Eat an apple insteat. :)

40-60% carbs on a cut???Thats pretty high intake. Once you get your protein and fat minimums in (1g/lbm and 0.5g/lbm respectively), there usually is never that much room for carbs. I would definitely ditch the lemonade. Drink non-caloric drinks and you need something sweet, eat some fruit instead.

List your total diet with caloric intake and macro breakdowns.

Questor
02-13-2007, 09:46 PM
Carbs do not equal bulking. Cutting carbs should not equal cutting.

A reduction in calories across the board equals cutting, though I wouldn't cut calories from protein.

Carbs are needed to provide many nutrients your body needs, as well as vitamins, fibers, antioxidants, and are the primary energy source of your body. When carbs are exhausted, your body metabolises muscle, and you don't want that on a cut.

So get your carbs, but get them from:

milk
unprocessed grains
whole wheat spaghetti
pumpernickle bread
all bran cereal
no sugar added yogurt
berries
fruits
legumes
veggies

Your body will digest these slowly, preventing blood sugar spikes which result in feelings of hunger, and allowing a more efficient use of calories metabolised from these carbs.

Also, up your fiber intake. Most Americans get an average of 15g of fiber. The DRV is 35. Increasing your intake of fiber 20g will burn an additional 250 calories as your body attempts to digest the fiber. Fiber is found in the aforementioned carby foods. :)

Slim Schaedle
02-13-2007, 09:58 PM
Carbs do not equal bulking. Cutting carbs should not equal cutting.

A reduction in calories across the board equals cutting, though I wouldn't cut calories from protein.

Carbs are needed to provide many nutrients your body needs, as well as vitamins, fibers, antioxidants, and are the primary energy source of your body. When carbs are exhausted, your body metabolises muscle, and you don't want that on a cut.

Questor, no offense, but you have alot to learn regarding bodybuilding/performance/physique-enhacing nutrition.


Back to the low carbs...the issue is very complex but low carb dieting is extremely effective for cutting bodyfat and it is very possible to maintain lean mass (and even gain some) if the diet is applied correctly.

It would be difficult to visit every avenue of carbohydrate metabolism in regards to why much of your post is inaccurate, so I invite you to do some further reading on the topic. Good sources would be those not targeted for the general population, such as material put out by the American Dietetic Association, etc. On the other hand, sources suh as Bodyrecomposition.com has some great info.

Mr. D
02-13-2007, 10:01 PM
Questor: Protein and fat should be the last things reduced when on a cut.For a multitude of reasons. They are ESSENTIAL to body function, carbs are not. Im not saying go carb free (he can if he likes with scheduled refeeds of course), but reduction in cals should come mainly from carbs when reducing from maintence.

Slim Schaedle
02-13-2007, 10:02 PM
I'm on a cut, trying to get below about 100g carbs a day.

I notice though, that some of the things I do eat and drink throughout the day contain sugar, like my nutrigrain bars and lemonaide. Are these simple carbs, aka sugar hurting me? Or will my body burn and use it quick enough before it stores?

At 100 grams/day, it won't matter too much at all if your carb sources are complex, sucrose, glucose, fructose, etc.

That amount barely keeps your liver stocked so you don't need to worry about things such as insulin, blood sugar spike, etc.


I also base this on personal experience.

MagnaSephiroth
02-13-2007, 10:03 PM
To the OP, don't worry so much about the sugar you are eatting that comes from things like powerbars and organic foods. Its mostly about calories and avoiding sugars completely is nearly impossible. I would, however, advise you to stay away from Fructose as much as you can on a cut. I am currently avoiding fruits, and eatting mostly startchy and fiberous carbs.
Even though I only eat 225g of carbs on a workout day, I get as much as 40g of fiber. Kashi foods are all packed with it :)

Slim Schaedle
02-13-2007, 10:07 PM
Its mostly about calories and avoiding sugars completely is nearly impossible. I would, however, advise you to stay away from Fructose as much as you can on a cut

But like I just said, at 100 grams/day it won't matter.

Questor
02-13-2007, 10:11 PM
It would be difficult to visit every avenue of carbohydrate metabolism in regards to why much of your post is inaccurate, so I invite you to do some further reading on the topic.

I'm open to new ideas - anything in particular you can recommend? Though I think I will test my ideas and see how they work in my next cut.

I prefer the idea of staying nutritionally balanced to an unhealthy depriviation.

Slim Schaedle
02-13-2007, 10:19 PM
I'm open to new ideas - anything in particular you can recommend? I have a cut looming, in which I plan to put my ideas to the test. But perhaps there's a better road.

I did nearly 6 months of carb cycling (85g carb/day about half the week, carb loading for the rest) and it was one of the most effective things I have ever done.


Lyle has great info pertaining to body recomposition at that site I posted above.

SEALBound
02-14-2007, 09:31 AM
I should prolly add this, 3 times every two weeks I have a hockey game. Ususally for dinner that night I'll have a pasta oriented dinner like Fetticini Alfrado or Spegetti...

I lift 3 days a week and cardio the other two. My question really is, when I workout, do cardio, and play hockey, is my body using all of these sugars so that they don't store?

I understand that you want the complex carbs but I was just wondering about all the sugars in these bars and drinks...I think I may just ditch the lemonaide or just have it once a day...

Unreal
02-14-2007, 09:44 AM
Your body is constantly storing, converting, and burning fat. As long as your daily calories are below or at maintence then you will not be putting on any fat/weight.

Slim Schaedle
02-14-2007, 10:20 AM
I should prolly add this, 3 times every two weeks I have a hockey game. Ususally for dinner that night I'll have a pasta oriented dinner like Fetticini Alfrado or Spegetti...

I lift 3 days a week and cardio the other two. My question really is, when I workout, do cardio, and play hockey, is my body using all of these sugars so that they don't store?

I understand that you want the complex carbs but I was just wondering about all the sugars in these bars and drinks...I think I may just ditch the lemonaide or just have it once a day...

Are you submitting this question along with the fact that you will still be aiming for 100g carbs or less per day?


If so, I just addressed this above, and repeated it after MagnaSephiroth's post.

RedSpikeyThing
02-14-2007, 10:28 AM
I prefer the idea of staying nutritionally balanced to an unhealthy depriviation.

Oddly enough, your body does not require an intake of carbs in any way shape or form. Now your sanity, on the other hand, does.

Questor
02-14-2007, 10:52 AM
I submit that a healthy intake of carbs is at least as important as a healthy intake of fat and furthermore that the intake of specific carbs, such as the ones I listed above, especially when paired with a DRV of fiber, will not contribute to weight gain.

Lastly I suggest that, low-gi high nutrient carbs with a high fiber intake while coupled with high protein intake and appropriate fat intake, understanding that the caloric intake is slightly below maintenance level - and under the application of moderate to intense physical activity - will result in weight loss with a reduced loss of lbm. General health is not sacrificed for fat loss under this plan.

By 'general health' I mean the relative immune system function to repel the average cold / flu, and the maintenance of lbm, and the optimal functioning of mental faculties.

Sorry, not trying to sound smarty. Just the best way I could think of to put it.

I know I'm rocking the boat here against one of the WBB mantras. I want to emphasize that low-carb dieting, I'm sure, works extremely well. But I believe there is a way to achieve the same results, in perhaps a bit more time, which is overall better for your body and mind.

Holto
02-14-2007, 12:55 PM
Lastly I suggest that, low-gi high nutrient carbs.

I think what you mean in this sentence is high nutrient foods.

Carbs are a non-essential nutrient. There is no such thing as a high nutrient carb. They all end up as sugar in the body.

Many high nutrient foods such as fruits and vegetables are loaded with nutrients and also contain carbs.

That said I only recommend a low carb diet to someone who has tried a balanced diet. It's really hard going low carb for many people and should be attempted by experienced dieters only.

There are 38 essential nutrients and sugar is not one of them.

Questor
02-14-2007, 01:43 PM
What do you mean you eat food? I go to the carbocery store and in the carb isle I pick out a few sacks of carbs. :)

the doc
02-14-2007, 02:00 PM
carbs are NOT at all required for daily living and are not a required nutrient

one can make the point that nutrients present in various fruits and vegetables are useful for healthy living however again carbs are NOT an essential nutrient. i believe holto effectively hit that point

you will DIE if you eat a diet absent in either fats or protein

if you are diabetic or an overweight middle aged person a high carb diet is DETRIMENTAL to your health

an avacado has only 5 g of non fibrous carbs yet has almost 30 g of fat (although "healthy fat") so if questor if you think that is a good source of carbs then you need to hit the books again :study:

Holto
02-14-2007, 02:11 PM
What do you mean you eat food? I go to the carbocery store and in the carb isle I pick out a few sacks of carbs. :)

:zipit: :zipit: :zipit:

Questor
02-14-2007, 02:37 PM
an avacado has only 5 g of non fibrous carbs yet has almost 30 g of fat (although "healthy fat") so if questor if you think that is a good source of carbs then you need to hit the books again :study:

I'm aware that the avocado has a higher fat content than carb content, but the quality of nutrients available in an avocado combined with it's low-gi rating, make the carbs in it attractive.

the doc
02-14-2007, 02:40 PM
I'm aware that the avocado has a higher fat content than carb content, but the quality of nutrients available in an avocado combined with it's low-gi rating, make the carbs in it attractive.

yes but you said to get 40-60% of your carbs and that avocados were one of your good sources of carbs.

and I love avocados - although I'd say more appropriate for a high fat diet and not a high carb diet (although in small amts they are fine)

Questor
02-14-2007, 02:41 PM
carbs are NOT at all required for daily living and are not a required nutrient

one can make the point that nutrients present in various fruits and vegetables are useful for healthy living however again carbs are NOT an essential nutrient. i believe holto effectively hit that point

you will DIE if you eat a diet absent in either fats or protein

Maybe I haven't made myself clear?


I know I'm rocking the boat here against one of the WBB mantras. I want to emphasize that low-carb dieting, I'm sure, works extremely well. But I believe there is a way to achieve the same results, in perhaps a bit more time, which is overall better for your body and mind.

One more time?


I know I'm rocking the boat here against one of the WBB mantras. I want to emphasize that low-carb dieting, I'm sure, works extremely well. But I believe there is a way to achieve the same results, in perhaps a bit more time, which is overall better for your body and mind.

I'm have never said you should cut the fat or protein out of your diet and live on carbs.

I have said several times that you do not need to cut the carbs out of your life to loose weight.

Questor
02-14-2007, 02:42 PM
yes but you said to get 40-60% of your carbs and that avocados were one of your good sources of carbs.

and I love avocados - although I'd say more appropriate for a high fat diet and not a high carb diet (although in small amts they are fine)

The avocado may be high in fats - but it is not 'fat'. It also contains carbs. The avocado is an attractive source of carbs.

the doc
02-14-2007, 02:44 PM
i dont think low carb dieting is a wbb mantra

high carb dieting is fine also (provided there are no health-related contraindications) provided sufficient essential fatty acids are obtained

the points I made were general statements and not directed specifically at questor except where i specifically mentioned your name (re: avocados). dont take the others personally

Questor
02-14-2007, 02:47 PM
My bottom line is I just felt bad for some guy trying to live on 100g of carbs. I don't, I won't, and I don't feel it's required. A more rounded caloric deficit should do the trick. I freely admit it might take longer.