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markdk86
02-23-2007, 07:05 PM
Ok. I've been doing Crossfit for a while and feel more fit overall, but I miss part of the heavy lifting. I was looking to get some help mixing in 1/3 of the 3 on 1 off into heavy training. I feel that some of my strength has gone down, especially when I am lifting parients up and down stairs.

Anthony
02-24-2007, 02:32 PM
If you're not lifting heavy, you're not doing Crossfit.

Let's look at the last 9 workouts:

11. Max Effort Overhead Squats
10. hspu/chinups metcon
9. Max Effort Deadlifts
8. rest
7. barbara metcon
6. 800m sprint
5. max effort squats, max effort press, max effort deadlifts
4. rest
3. linda metcon (BWx150% deadlift 55 reps, etc)
2. hspu/l-pullup metcon
1. 800m sprint, etc.

In 11 days you have 5 max effort lifts. Now let's compare to a traditional powerlifting template:

12. me squat or deadlift
11. me bench
10. rest
9. de squat or deadlift
8. de bench
7. rest
6. rest
5. me squat or deadlift
4. me bench
3. rest
2. de squat or deadlift
1. de bench

In 12-14 days you have 4 max effort lifts.

Where exactly is the problem??

markdk86
02-24-2007, 09:27 PM
I'm lifting heavy, doing the WOD. I just feel that my strength has goen down too much since comming off my Bill Starr 5x5. I wanted to incorporate more strength than is currently in the WOD while still having the Metcon.

A second problem is I'm feeling burnt out since I stopped takign creatine and started my new job as a EMT. I feel overworked because on my rest days I may be carrying patients up and down stairs to get to the ambulance. I go to the gym when I can, usually at least getting 2/3 of the WOD in, sometimes all 3 days. I was thinking of tailoring it to a ME Day than a Metcon day, give myself a day or 2 off and repeat. Some days my job is just too physically demanding. I started taking creatine again today so I feel my "UMPH" back in the gym some. I feel teh difference from not taking it :). It's rough at work. I'm usually working 12-15 hour shifts. This week I was fortunate.

Anthony
02-25-2007, 07:36 AM
ME/Metcon/off/off/repeat will work fine. But your frequency will be about the same (4 ME days every 2 weeks). How many of the 5 ME lifts did you perform in the past 11 days of CF?

Personally, I think it's an issue of recovery.

markdk86
02-25-2007, 09:46 AM
Probably is a issue of recovery. I'm running a few days behind so the ME squats and deadlift will be monday and wed.

SweetnLO
02-25-2007, 10:57 AM
If you're not lifting heavy, you're not doing Crossfit.



I tried doing a search on CrossFit and I apologize, but I didn't come up with very much. How do you feel about CrossFit? Are you military? I'm in the middle of a verbal dispute regarding CrossFit on another msg board so I would appreciate any other views. Just from looking at program examples and the website the whole thing is getting hammered as being insane and unsafe and not appropriate or useful for someone who is already in really good shape. I have a bit of exposure having been part of a CF trial (not terribly valid in my opinion, but whatever) so I was wondering what your (or anyone who has used it!) opinion was.

markdk86
02-25-2007, 11:11 AM
It is more well rounded fitness and toucher than anything I've ever done. It is a new routine every day. You don't get the chance to adapt.

beatlesfreak
02-25-2007, 05:47 PM
It is more well rounded fitness and tougher than anything I've ever done. It is a new routine every day. You don't get the chance to adapt.

^^^

Exactly!

Adaptation and inflexible routines can lead to boredom, which can lead to apathy, which can lead to laziness, which can lead to quitting, which can lead to sitting on the couch eating Cheetos and reminiscing of the days when you used to be in shape.

:strong:

markdk86
02-25-2007, 07:32 PM
So do you guys feel a 2 days on and 1-2 days off will fit me better than the 3 on 1 off for the WOD ?

beatlesfreak
02-25-2007, 08:54 PM
So do you guys feel a 2 days on and 1-2 days off will fit me better than the 3 on 1 off for the WOD ?


I've been doing a schedule of Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday on, Thursday off, then Friday and Saturday on, and Sunday off.

That give me both a 3 on/1 off and a 2 on/1 off each week. Your needs may be different due to various factors, like your job, your personal schedule, etc.

I don't always do the WOD though. I try to mix up a regular heavy 5x5 lifting routine with two or three Crossfits each week, and I have to tailor the Crossfit workout so as not to interfere with my lifting, i.e. I don't want to do the "Diane" workout the day before I try to do heavy deadlifts.

Just experiment and see what fits your needs.

It's all good.

EvanH
02-26-2007, 01:32 AM
^^^

Exactly!

Adaptation and inflexible routines can lead to boredom, which can lead to apathy, which can lead to laziness, which can lead to quitting, which can lead to sitting on the couch eating Cheetos and reminiscing of the days when you used to be in shape.

:strong:

which can lead to the dark side? (said in Yoda voice.)

I have been using Crossfit for about a week and a half. I don't know if it's just me but I feel much better over all in the past week and a half than I have in a long while. I am going to continue to use it for the next couple months to see how I progress. I think I will be a Crossfit addict soon, I am doing a whole lot more pull-ups than I could ever imagine possible.

I love waking up and finding out what I will be doing for the days workout. It is pretty exciting doing something different every day/week and shocking the hell out of your system. Makes me look forward to working out.

Anthony
02-26-2007, 06:19 PM
Just from looking at program examples and the website the whole thing is getting hammered as being insane and unsafe and not appropriate or useful for someone who is already in really good shape. I have a bit of exposure having been part of a CF trial (not terribly valid in my opinion, but whatever) so I was wondering what your (or anyone who has used it!) opinion was.

The "unsafe" argument is crap. Rather than trying to summarize what has been argued hundreds of times on dozens of forums, take a read:


If safety is your sole or even your primary concern, your athletesí fitness potential will be soundly blunted. Where fitness is your sole concern, safety must be given reasonable priority. Safety, efficacy, and efficiency are clearly, mathematically, interdependent. It would be foolish to think otherwise.

Olympic lifts "Highly technical"? Rubbish. Only compared to the rest of weight training. There are thousands of gymnastics movements fantastically more technical than the clean and jerk and the snatch. In any case, CrossFit, with high rep weightlifting, has been shown in clinical and institutional settings to be dramatically safer than the traditional run, sit-up, pull-up, jumping jack, push-up, lather, rinse, repeat, PT. This is not due to the "highly technical" nature of jumping jacks and running.

Not practicing complex movements fatigued? More rubbish. Only by practicing them fatigued will we advance the point where fatigue adversely affects form. Learning to race cars at high speed increases the likelihood of crashing. It is not the crashing that improves the driver's skill, however, but transiently increasing the likelihood of crashing is an essential part of decreasing the likelihood of crashing at any given speed.

Not all form faults are dangerous. Most clearly are not. Most increase the metabolic costs of an exercise or workout, i.e. reduce efficiency, and are not only acceptable but beneficial to conditioning. But what is certain is that only by working to exhaustion, where form faults are ineluctable, will we push the margins of power output where form falters. We push to the point of exhaustion and form breakdown to 1) increase/improve the safety of high output max efforts, and 2) maximize work capacity. How simple is that?

Show me a program where form is controlled to the point of never failing and I'll show you an athlete who a) will fall apart at output levels where CrossFitters are untaxed and moving with grace, and b) cannot match the work capacity of CrossFitters.

The ideal state for learning new activities is certainly when the athlete is fresh. This should not be confused with advancing the horizon line where form is maintainable under duress.

Mr. Boyle was able to quantify his concerns for the dangers of high rep weightlifting - anything approaching twelve reps. As reported to me, this wasn't load qualified, but rep qualified.

If taking your one 1RM for the C&J and attempting 20 reps is an example of dangerous high rep weightlifting then it's dangerous like trying to jump up and touch the sun, and I haven't met anyone stupid enough to try or even think it possible. Calling 100 clean and jerks with a twenty pound medicine ball for time dangerous makes even less sense ...

Where CrossFit has been analyzed, injuries have been recorded, the analysis has had to bear the investigators' names, and the results made public, CrossFit has been shown to be safer than traditional PT.

mikesbytes
02-26-2007, 09:14 PM
I don't get crossfit, I can't find the training routines.

As a cross trainer there should be something there for me

Anthony
02-27-2007, 03:17 AM
They hide examples in middle of the front page.

They also hide stuff in the FAQ or Start Here sections.

mikesbytes
02-27-2007, 03:58 AM
I don't see anything apart from individual exercises. Wheres a weekly routine or the like ?

markdk86
02-27-2007, 05:50 AM
There isn't one. Thats why it is calles CROSSFIT. No routine, no adaption, only progress.

manowar669
02-27-2007, 10:35 AM
If you want to add more heavy lifting to your training, I propose you run Starr's 5x5 for 8-10 weeks or so, maybe twice a year, and crossfit the rest of the year. Possibly coincide a bulk with the 5x5, although I normally don't advocate a "cutting" or "bulking" routine. What I've been doing now, just to fit my schedule is Rippetoes routine M-W-F, and Crossfit T-Th, and switch the following week (Crossfit MWF and Rippetoe TTh), with weekends off. If I'm really sore, I won't train that bodypart the next day. Sometimes I take a day off during the week if I feel I need it.

Mik
02-27-2007, 10:43 AM
They hide examples in middle of the front page.

They also hide stuff in the FAQ or Start Here sections.

ROFL!!!!!!!!! /pwn!

SweetnLO
02-27-2007, 03:09 PM
The "unsafe" argument is crap. Rather than trying to summarize what has been argued hundreds of times on dozens of forums, take a read:


You should go post that on the other link I gave you...I can't take the criticism!! Those people can be harsh! If it's not tried and true old fashioned lifting, it can't possibly work.

Anthony
02-28-2007, 04:19 PM
You should go post that on the other link I gave you...I can't take the criticism!! Those people can be harsh! If it's not tried and true old fashioned lifting, it can't possibly work.

I should, but I can't be bothered arguing with people who are more intent on proving themselves right than they are about improving their performance.

Just ignore them and move on. :D

Threshold
03-18-2007, 09:27 PM
Hey Anthony, i've been checking out crossfit and it looks very interesting. I just want to know if it is possible to mix a traditional bodybuilding routine with crossfit?

Anthony
03-19-2007, 07:44 PM
Yeah, Crossfit is a GPP program, you can mix it with anything.

Threshold
03-19-2007, 10:03 PM
oooh the possibilities