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Vvitto
02-18-2002, 04:37 PM
Are they a good nutritional source when you cut?


30 g per serving has:total fat 13 g, sat fat 1,5 g, poly unsat 4g, monosat 7 g,sugars 3 g, protein 6 g, carbs 9 g...

I dont recall which ones are the good fats..I think monousaturated if I am not mistaken..

Any opinions?

Princess
02-18-2002, 04:42 PM
hey, that'd be pretty nifty if they were a good food while cutting...... mmmmmmmmmm.. I love those, they are soooooooooooooooooooooooo good!...

and pistachio pudding.. oh god, that's even better!

I doubt they are healthy, everything healthy is nasty...........................ok almost everything

Manipul8r
02-18-2002, 04:54 PM
PISTACHIOS = ACE!!!

Tryska
02-18-2002, 05:00 PM
pistachios are ace. depends on what type of cutting diet you are on, but theya re loaded with good fats.

all nuts = ace

Princess
02-18-2002, 05:04 PM
so what about the pudding....... probably pretty bad, just artificial flavoring, and sugar.. hmmmm.

Vvitto
02-18-2002, 05:06 PM
Hi TRYSKA

As I said I am not sure which one are the good fats..

Polyunsaturated and monounsaturated are the good ones, and saturated fats the bad ones?

I just discovered them and I cannot stop eating them now..

Tryska
02-18-2002, 05:17 PM
pistachio pudding prettyu much sucks while you are cutting, yes.

vitto, they all have their merits. actually...chigs wrot an excellent article on fats that should be of some help to you...lemme go see if i can find the link....

Tryska
02-18-2002, 05:23 PM
oh..maybe it's not out yet...but it should be coming soon. it goes pretty in-depth on the different kinds of fats....

here's a real quick and dirty:

saturated fats - found in animal products, pal oil and coconut oil.....has gotten a bad rap IMO as it has ties to heart disease and high cholesterol, but IMO further proof and better designed studies need ot be made. In any case, don't fear it, as it is valuable to your body, but limit it.

Polyunsaturated fats - found in most vegetable products. it's good stuff.

Mono-unsaturated fats - helathy stuff like olive oil. you should try to have this type of oil as the cornerstone of your fat intake.

EFA's - essential fatty acid are not produced int he body and need to be taken in via diet. Omega 3's, 6's and 9's. all good for ya but you want them balanced. Omega-3 come from fish oils and flax seed, omega 6 comes from most vegetable oils and primorse and borage, omega-9 an be found in olive oil.

hope that helps!

Vvitto
02-18-2002, 05:31 PM
Thanks Trys.
As I thought , fat fats have a bad reputation..

Tryska
02-18-2002, 05:33 PM
word.

Fart Barker
02-18-2002, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Tryska
all nuts = ace

:evillaugh

Tryska
02-19-2002, 03:59 AM
tuttut

hemants
02-19-2002, 06:52 AM
"saturated fats - found in animal products, pal oil and coconut oil.....has gotten a bad rap IMO as it has ties to heart disease and high cholesterol, but IMO further proof and better designed studies need ot be made. In any case, don't fear it, as it is valuable to your body, but limit it. "

Sorry Trysk, I completely disagree with this statement.

While the link between dietary cholesterol and cardio vascular disease may be weak, the link of dietary saturated fat to cvd is a no brainer.

No need to be paranoid saturated fat but they in addition to smoking, are one of the few no brainers in medicine.

Tryska
02-19-2002, 06:55 AM
not getting into this with you again hemant. i know you completely disagree and i'm okay with that. you don't have to agree with me, and i damn sure don't have to agree with you.

max_power
02-19-2002, 07:07 AM
Originally posted by Vvitto
Are they a good nutritional source when you cut?


30 g per serving has:total fat 13 g, sat fat 1,5 g, poly unsat 4g, monosat 7 g,sugars 3 g, protein 6 g, carbs 9 g...

I dont recall which ones are the good fats..I think monousaturated if I am not mistaken..

Any opinions?

I found them very good for cutting. They do not contains so many carboidrates and the fat they contain are good. Infact they contain very few saturated fats that are dangerous for your health,but they contain a good amount of poliunsaturated and monoinsaturated fats,that are good for your health.
Poliunsaturated fats are good for your heart,while monounsaturated fat are good to raise the level of HDL( High density lipoprotein) and to lower the LDL (low density lipoprotein) that are the factor which cause the dangerous cholesterol.

My land (Sicily) is the first productor of pistacchios in the world.

max_power

hemants
02-19-2002, 07:09 AM
"and i damn sure don't have to agree with you."

Be nice, we're all here to learn from each other.

If anyone is interested, saturated fat is perhaps THE most studied dietary element in medicine, here is an excerpt from one study

" 2002 American Heart Association, Inc.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Volume 105(7) 19 February 2002 pp 893-898
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Prevention of Coronary Heart Disease by Diet and Lifestyle: Evidence From Prospective Cross-Cultural, Cohort, and Intervention Studies
[Current Perspective]

..intake of saturated fat was strongly related to 10- and 25-year population coronary heart disease mortality rates. 18,20 Population average serum cholesterol was also significantly associated with 25-year population coronary heart disease mortality rates, although this correlation coefficient was weaker than that for saturated fat (r =0.73 versus r =0.88). This suggests that in addition to the effect of saturated fatty acids on serum cholesterol, they also have an effect on coronary heart disease independent of their effect on serum cholesterol."

The_Chicken_Daddy
02-19-2002, 09:35 AM
Hemants, you can't say saturated fat on a whole is bad cause that's not true.

Any saturated fat with a hydro carbon chain of 10 or less is harmless and stearic acid which has a chain length of 18 has even been shown to elevate HDL.

the problem lies in the fact that most foods with saturated fat usually have high amounts of palmitic and mysteric acid. these are the to real bastards as far as raising LDL cholesterol levels is concerned.

There's also debate about lauric acid cause it has a chain length of 12. it's kinda on the edge - it has some properties of smaller chain lengths and some properties of longer chain length. Coconut milk has gotten bad rap cause of it's sat fat concentrations, but in truth coconut milk is aight cause it's predominantly lauric acid.

I've got an article all about fats coming out at the end of the month and that goes into a bit more detail.

hemants
02-19-2002, 09:56 AM
CD, True that.

Coconut milk is the only food I've found that is low in palmetic acid.

A similar argument can be made for trans fatty acids that are as bad as saturated fat in terms of CVD risks; those trans fatty acids that are derivatives of Oleic acid do not have the negative effects.

But at the end of the day, both saturated fats and trans fatty acids are bad for you in general (with a few exceptions of course).

In terms of the effects of Lauric acid, I'll look into it :)

The_Chicken_Daddy
02-19-2002, 10:03 AM
sure man.

btw the article covers trans and hydrogenated fats too.

hemants
02-19-2002, 10:11 AM
It's not a journal reference but here's one article from harvard medweb

http://hms.medweb.harvard.edu/nmw/hms_naa/nutrition.html

"Over the past 40 years, studies have shown that dietary saturated fatty acids, especially lauric, myristic and palmitic acids, raise LDL-C levels the most whereas stearic has little effect probably due to its rapid conversion to oleic acid (18:1), the major monounsaturated fatty acid in the diet. Carefully controlled clinical studies have shown that for each 1% reduction in calories consumed as saturated fat, serum cholesterol level falls an average of 2.7 mg/dL."

So it seems to me that unless you can find a food whose saturated fat is predominantly stearic acid (haven't found one yet) , saturated fats are still a major risk factor in CVD :study:

The_Chicken_Daddy
02-19-2002, 10:19 AM
I think some cheeses are, but i think they taste rancid anyway, so i kinda ignored them haha...:)

btw, have they ever done studies on weight training athletes? or are all the test subjects fat asses?

hemants
02-19-2002, 10:25 AM
"btw, have they ever done studies on weight training athletes? or are all the test subjects fat asses?"

Not sure, but I would guess there's nothing magical about what causes a bodybuilder's heart to fail. If only that were true :)

Tryska
02-19-2002, 10:27 AM
also i would want to know the macronutrient ratios on studies provided. haven't found any like that, but if you do, i would love to see them.

The_Chicken_Daddy
02-19-2002, 01:13 PM
Ah, but most of the bodybuilder's who's heart fail is usually from ill-researched drug and duiretic use.

I only ask cause i wanna know how dietary cholesterol effects the average active weightlifter. I reckon results could be interesting, cause most studies are done on people who are a) fat lazy bastards, b) folk who already have high cholesterol c) folk whose family have a history of heart disease and high cholesterol and d) seditary (or however you spell it) people.

And like Tina says, knowing exactly the amount of sat fat used in the studies would help. As well as the amount of good fats they are taking in.

hemants
02-19-2002, 01:40 PM
"Ah, but most of the bodybuilder's who's heart fail is usually from ill-researched drug and duiretic use."

Could be true but I see no reason to believe that a bodybuilder or any other elite athelite would be exempt from the effects of high LDL/low HDL. In any case, I haven't seen any specific studies dealing with resistance training atheletes.

In terms of diet, I'm sure they are "normal" non-ketogenic diets. I don't doubt that saturated fat intake would be less harmful to someone who is excreting most of it in the form of ketones in the urine.

Most control studies replace saturated fat with polyunsaturated and keep all macronutrient percentages the same.

I'll continue to dig for information specific to atheletes but I doubt the results are going to be any different; that unsaturated fatty acids are healthier than saturated and trans fatty acids (with the exceptions metioned before if such foods even exist).

The_Chicken_Daddy
02-19-2002, 01:49 PM
polys contain the EFA's, but the problem with polys is that they are oxidised too easily.

I personally eat only enough polys that i need a day and then see how much sat i get from doing this (and how much sat fat comes from protein and carb sources) and then i make the remainder of the fat i need for the day up with monos.

hemants
02-20-2002, 05:52 AM
Good point, I never thought about mono vs poly intake.

Thx!

Tryska
02-20-2002, 06:45 AM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy

And like Tina says, knowing exactly the amount of sat fat used in the studies would help. As well as the amount of good fats they are taking in.

and carb intake during that time as well.

hemants
02-20-2002, 07:18 AM
True, there are many factors that will influence how bad saturated fats are for you : carb intake, type of carbs, timing of feedings, number of meals per day, exercise, body composition, genetic factors.

From what I have seen, when trying to achieve statistical significance, studies adjust for all other factors before drawing a conclusion.

Practically speaking, there is little doubt that substituting saturated fats with unsaturated fats will raise HDL/LDL ratio and therefore be a healthier choice.

What I wouldn't necessarily trust, however, is the RDA type figures that are tossed out as these are meant for the general population.