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Questor
02-27-2007, 11:01 AM
Recently I suggested to someone eating less than 100 carbs a day on his cut that he does not need to cut his carbs so severely. I suggested that you can cut by reducing your overall calories - rather than skeletonizing one nutrient. I indicated the key to success was eating low-gi, complex carbs - basically beans and such. I also suggested a high fiber intake, or at least, the DRV.

I was told to learn2play. Or in the case of WBB, I suppose, it's learn2eat.

Well I promised that on my upcomming cut I would put it to the test. So now I'm gonna walk the walk and if it doesn't work I'll let you all know and you can mock me.

Here's my plan.

Rate: 1 lb / week
Targetted End Date: May 31st
Estimated Maintenance: 2800/day - 19600/wk
Estimated Cutting Calories: 2400/day, start. 2300/day, end
Protein: 170g, 680c
Fats: 80g, 720c
Carbs: 250g, 1000c
Sugars: 50g
Fiber: 35g

I had suggested that a weightlifter craft their calorie intake so that 40-60% of it is from carbs. This suggestion got LOLURDUMB. You'll note that this plan has 42% of my calories coming from carbs.

IHaveToCrushYou
02-27-2007, 11:47 AM
This is basically the macro setup Im using for my cut right now. The only difference is that my carbs are usually 50g less than my protein intake (200-215g pro, 150-170g carbs).

I've often wondered about increasing carbs, as I find that most of my fibre comes from good carbs (whole grain flax bread, oatmeal, apples) so decreasing carbs also decreases my fibre intake. If your eating more carbs then reaching the 35g of fibre shouldnt be a problem.

Ive also heard that once you eat 35g of fibre, then 20% of what you eat for the rest of the day isnt aborbed or something like that.

Vapour Trails
02-27-2007, 11:54 AM
It'll work, albeit really slowly.

One reason why lowering carbs is a good idea is insulin inhibits the enzyme responsible for liberating fatty acids from fat cells. Or in other words, if carbs are available, your rate of fat burning is quite low.

teaturtle
02-27-2007, 12:12 PM
what would be an example of low carbs? 50g?

the doc
02-27-2007, 02:54 PM
i'd say low is anything less than 100 but i dont think there is a set cutoff

i think many people have no problem to cut on a high carb/high protein. Many members of this board have done so. Speaking for myself though, ketogenic style cutting has been easier to control cravings and (surprisingly) maintain a high recovery capacity (ie recovering from previous workouts in a timely fashion). It is certainly not a scientific correlation but more personal experience with both methods. Another unexpected effect has been a significant increase in total areobic work capacity (a longer time and higher resistances were achieved before exhaustion). I expected just the opposite.

KingWilder
02-27-2007, 03:49 PM
According to Lyle your body needs about 50g a day to take care of all it's basic functions...that's probably as low as I'd ever go

emunah
02-28-2007, 07:53 AM
It'll work, albeit really slowly.

One reason why lowering carbs is a good idea is insulin inhibits the enzyme responsible for liberating fatty acids from fat cells. Or in other words, if carbs are available, your rate of fat burning is quite low.

True, but HSL requires very little insulin...even fasting levels are sufficient to inactivate HSL. Protein also increases insulin anyway.

As long as you are at a deficit, you're fine.

Vapour Trails
02-28-2007, 11:56 AM
Another thing I forgot to mention yesterday, do you think that at 164lbs your maintenance is really 2800 cals/day?

This brings to why I don't like moderate deficit diets, besides the fact your cut for months on end to see small results, errors in estimating maintenance and how much you consume each day can shrink your deficit to nothing.

Example
Person A thinks their maintenance is 3000 cals (it's really 2850).
Person A routinely underestimates daily food consumption, so when they shoot for 2500 cals they really are at 2600.
All of a sudden the 500 cal daily deficit is really only 250 cals and it takes 2 weeks to lose a pathetic one pound. Meanwhile, they are bored and not making gains in the gym.

Beast
02-28-2007, 12:22 PM
The high fat/low carb cut never worked for me. Carb cycling is my friend... Last cut I had no less than 175g of carbs every day, with high carb days going up to almost 400g (mostly fiber). I also had about 50g of fat per day.
Only way to find out which diet works best for you is to try it.

Vapour Trails
02-28-2007, 02:28 PM
True, but HSL requires very little insulin...even fasting levels are sufficient to inactivate HSL. Protein also increases insulin anyway.

As long as you are at a deficit, you're fine.

Yes, that's correct it doesn't take much for inhibition...I was just giving an example the changes that take place during low carb diets. A lower carb diet will increase fat burning vs. a high carb diet though, but generally this is cancelled out by a higher fat intake on a low carb diet.

emunah
02-28-2007, 08:29 PM
Yes, that's correct it doesn't take much for inhibition...I was just giving an example the changes that take place during low carb diets. A lower carb diet will increase fat burning vs. a high carb diet though, but generally this is cancelled out by a higher fat intake on a low carb diet.

Agreed. Which is why its a wash as long as the cals are the same. Personally, I find a lower carb diet easier to stick with. Less hunger.

greekboy80
03-01-2007, 02:11 PM
If you end up lowering you carbs under 100 a day, make sure you supplament with some fish oil caps(I take about 20 a day) and get a good amount of fiber(30 + grams a day)....

greekboy80
03-01-2007, 02:23 PM
Another thing I forgot to mention yesterday, do you think that at 164lbs your maintenance is really 2800 cals/day?

This brings to why I don't like moderate deficit diets, besides the fact your cut for months on end to see small results, errors in estimating maintenance and how much you consume each day can shrink your deficit to nothing.
.

I agree, Go hard and be done with it.

I weight about 220 and i'm about 6'3. I'm cutting right now using the Velocity diet(read more about it below). My Cals are at 1900 on lifting days and 1600 on non-lifting days. Carbs usually dont go over 100 a day. Its basicly a low carb diet that has higher carbs centered around the work out. Its working great for me!

Here's a few links...If anyone is intrested. The're great reads...

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-009-diet

http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=05-025-diet

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1295181