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FlyingFury
03-14-2007, 07:40 PM
Im pretty skinny 5'8 145 and trying to gain weight.
Does it make that much of a difference if its a clean bulk or un-clean bulk. Cause i dont really like preparing food or anything so its mostly eating out fast food and junk food. Goal is pretty much just to have a bigger frame.

And also whats best 'simple' food to gain weight in least quantity?

snow
03-14-2007, 08:01 PM
I would imagine in the long run, yes, it matters, especially for health purposes. I wouldn't think eating mostly fast food / junk food is very wise. It's probably best to learn to like other foods and build enough patience to cook for yourself.

Lones Green
03-14-2007, 08:14 PM
I would imagine in the long run, yes, it matters, especially for health purposes. I wouldn't think eating mostly fast food / junk food is very wise. It's probably best to learn to like other foods and build enough patience to cook for yourself.


im with snow. fast food is real unhealthy, and has little nutritional value. unless you want to gain a whole bunch of fat, eat it sparingly. the easiest, simplest thing for a bulk i'd say is whole milk, drink lots of it.

Auddasea
03-14-2007, 08:53 PM
Whole Milk + Weight Gain Shakes + Working Out + Sleep = Mass

RichMcGuire
03-14-2007, 09:24 PM
im with snow. fast food is real unhealthy, and has little nutritional value. unless you want to gain a whole bunch of fat, eat it sparingly. the easiest, simplest thing for a bulk i'd say is whole milk, drink lots of it.

The fat is fast food wont make you fat.. Its all about calories. You could eat a ton of lettuce and get fat (assuming it was possible to consume it).

I agree with the milk idea.

You can take a couple tbsp of peanut butter down with a tall glass of milk.. That simple snack is about 500 calories.

FANCYPANTS
03-14-2007, 09:49 PM
You can take a couple tbsp of peanut butter down with a tall glass of milk.. That simple snack is about 500 calories.
very nice:)

learn to cook a little... the chics dig it :)

RichMcGuire
03-14-2007, 09:55 PM
very nice:)

learn to cook a little... the chics dig it :)

I love to cook..Especially steak! MMM..

Cirino83
03-15-2007, 08:07 AM
I love to cook..Especially steak! MMM..

Yes. Nothing like grilling in the summer with a case full of beer by the pool and girls lounging around. :drooling:

Ahh can't wait for summer

Blanche_Soprano
03-16-2007, 02:27 PM
im with snow. fast food is real unhealthy, and has little nutritional value. unless you want to gain a whole bunch of fat, eat it sparingly. the easiest, simplest thing for a bulk i'd say is whole milk, drink lots of it.

So true, fast food is a killer. It is full of saturated fat, cholesterol, and sodium. Those three can lead to obesity, high blood pressure, heart disease, high cholesterol, coronary artery disease, and so on. An occasional fast food run is ok, but watch the rest of your food intake that day. It is reccommended that you keep your saturated fat makes you up less than 10 percent of your calories and your cholestoral at less than 300 milligrams a day.

Learn to love olive oil and use it on everything. It tastes good on fresh italian bread with a little parmesan cheese. It's full of healthy fats and a lot of calories. You can get the extra virgin olive oil if you're not a big fan of the taste.

WORLD
03-16-2007, 02:53 PM
To the OP, don't depend on fast food for bulking. I used to be in your position, but now I love the clean food I eat. It's easier to prepare than you think. This is how I do it:
Buy a box of skinned seasoned chicken breasts and some fish; Bags of frozen veggies; and Bags of brown rice and some potatoes/yams.

Cook all three and put them in three separate containers once a week. One is your meat, one is your veggies, and one your complex carbs like rice and potatoes. Depending on how long you'll be out during the day, put together some meals and take them with you. Drink a "Bulking shake" (which you can find recipes for on this site) when you get home, and you will no doubt meet your calorie needs.

Don't be afraid of hard work, building muscle isn't easy. But it's all worth it.

Mr. D
03-16-2007, 04:43 PM
It is reccommended that you keep your saturated fat makes you up less than 10 percent of your calories and your cholestoral at less than 300 milligrams a day.


To further clarify, saturated fat intake should be 1/3rd of your total fat intake, dieting by percentages is faulty. Also unless genetically predisposed, dietary cholesterol does not lead to blood cholesterol. So eat those yolks and butter!

Blanche_Soprano
03-17-2007, 09:43 PM
To further clarify, saturated fat intake should be 1/3rd of your total fat intake, dieting by percentages is faulty. Also unless genetically predisposed, dietary cholesterol does not lead to blood cholesterol. So eat those yolks and butter!

What I learned from my mom having to go through heart surgery is that dietary cholesterol, if taken in excess, can play a part in blood cholesterol. It is mostly the type of fat you eat that determines your blood cholesterol, but dietary cholesterol plays a big part as well. Keeping your cholesterol level down is not a bad idea for anyone though. HDL, the "good" cholesterol, is the type that is mostly produced by the liver. LDL, the "bad" cholesterol, is mostly from the food you eat. The body, mainly the liver, produces all the cholesterol it needs. I could talk for hours about cholesterol, but I'm too tired and it is a little off topic from the thread. Here is some information about cholesterol that I found with a quick google search (and weeding out the non-scientific sites):
http://www.americanheart.org/presenter.jhtml?identifier=4488

Built
03-17-2007, 09:52 PM
I brought my cholesterol down by eating more fat (saturated and otherwise), lifting weights, eating less carbohydrate and losing 40 lbs.

And I had high cholesterol by the age of 33, so this was the so-called "genetic" high cholesterol.

I eat more saturated fat and more dietary cholesterol now than I did ten years ago. My cholesterol is down from 6mmol / L to 3.5mmol / L - in American units, from 231.5 mg / dL to 135 mg / dL.

My HDL went UP, my LDL went DOWN, and I avoided lipitor.

I'm very sorry about your mother. But dietary cholesterol contributes so little to total blood lipids it's hardly worth mentioning. Now trans fats do terrible things to blood lipids, as does being overweight an having chronically elevated levels of insulin, at least as I understand these things.

Blanche_Soprano
03-17-2007, 11:41 PM
My parents have given me a rediculously low ldl cholesterol level through genetics (my mom's heart attack was not cholesterol related, but she had to do the rehab which includes many sessions about cholesterol control). Thankfully I have never had to worry about high cholesterol.

My good friend had such high cholesterol from genetics at the age of 16 that she was at risk for coronary artery disease. Seeing as how she was young, her doctor refused to put her on any medicine. She reduced her blood cholesterol by changing her eating habits, mostly reducing dietary cholesterol. She was already a three sport athlete in high school, and being a teenage girl, avoided most fats. The change came completely from the dietary cholesterol, not from exercise, weight loss, or cutting out bad fat. So to say it is hardly worth mentioning is ignoring the fact that it can be done.

I tend to trust the athorities on a subject more than people and so I consulted them. The FDA, National Cholesterol Education Program, AHA, and more, recommend reducing dietary saturated fat and cholesterol, adding in physical activity, and weight control when it comes to controling blood cholesterol. This has been studied many times. For example, a 1998 Columbia University study examined 103 male and female patients of diverse ages and ethnic backgrounds and found that reducing dietary saturated fat directly affected blood cholesterol.

Yes, I agree about trans fats, but if people still have no clue about those, they must be living under a rock. Seriously, they are all over the news. And saturated fats, well they are still considered an evil. The problem is, many research projects and studies had grouped trans fats together with saturated fats. Some recent studies are saying that sat fats are bad and others are saying not so bad. Until science can come to a better concensus about sat fats, I will still avoid them. Then again, most foods I eat are naturally low in sat fats. Go Vegtables!

Don't take this as me saying that you are wrong. I'm not denying what worked for you. I'm just saying that the authorities tend to agree with me and it's hard to go against them when they are paid to study cholesterol.

Built
03-18-2007, 01:38 AM
The American Heart Association's Step I diet sure doesn't do very much:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=8639015&query_hl=2&itool=pubmed_docsum

If I'm reading this particular study correctly, the small improvement in total cholesterol (the best of these three intervention models produced only a 0.54 mmol/L (20.9 mg/dL) drop in total cholesterol, and that was administered through a nutrition centre) doesn't drop levels low enough to really do anything.

In fact, this diet has been clinically proven to worsen your HDL to LDL ratio: it lowers total cholesterol, but does so by lowering good cholesterol more than bad - so you're left with a worse lipid profile than you had when you began:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?itool=abstractplus&db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=7572698

The 3-mo AHA diet resulted in an 11% decrease in plasma triacylglycerol (1.83 +/- 0.15 to 1.47 +/- 0.08 mmol/L, P < 0.05), a 16% decrease in plasma cholesterol (5.39 +/- 0.96 to 4.56 +/- 0.91 mmol/L, P = 0.0001), a 17% decrease in high-density-lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol (1.09 +/- 0.23 to 0.91 +/- 0.18 mmol/L, P = 0.0001), and a 14% decrease in low-density-lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol (3.47 +/- 0.83 to 2.98 +/- 0.78 mmol/L, P = 0.0001)

Isn't that great? the group average for HDL:LDL before was 1.09:3.47 (0.314), after it was 0.91:2.98 (0.305) - Indeed, total cholesterol goes down, but it's more at the expense of HDL than of LDL - a well-noted criticism of this intervention strategy.

My HDL went UP while my total cholesterol went down. Exactly the desired result. And I did so without drugs and without dropping fats.

And I'm not the only one.

Blanche_Soprano
03-18-2007, 09:55 AM
"When a patient without heart disease is first diagnosed with elevated blood cholesterol, doctors often prescribe a program of diet, exercise, and weight loss to bring levels down. National Cholesterol Education Program guidelines suggest at least a six-month program of reduced dietary saturated fat and cholesterol, together with physical activity and weight control, as the primary treatment before resorting to drug therapy. Typically, doctors prescribe the Step I/Step II diet (see "Food for Thought") to lower dietary fat, especially saturated fat. Many patients respond well to this diet and end up sufficiently reducing blood cholesterol levels. Study data reinforce these benefits. For example, a 1998 Columbia University study examined 103 male and female patients of diverse ages and ethnic backgrounds and found that reducing dietary saturated fat directly affected blood cholesterol. For every 1 percent drop in saturated fat, the study showed a 1 percent lowering of LDL in patients."
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/1999/199_chol.html

"Q. What do saturated fat, trans fat, and cholesterol in foods have to do with heart disease?
A. Saturated fat, trans fat, and cholesterol in the diet all raise the level of LDL "bad" cholesterol in the blood. The higher the LDL cholesterol, the greater the risk for coronary heart disease (CHD), the main form of heart disease and a leading cause of death, illness, and disability in the United States. Saturated fat and trans fat raise LDL similarly, but Americans consume 4-5 times as much saturated fat as trans fat. Saturated fat is the chief dietary culprit that raises LDL, but consumers need to know about all 3 - saturated fat, trans fat, and cholesterol - in the foods they eat to reduce their risk for CHD and stay heart-healthy"
http://hp2010.nhlbihin.net/cholmonth/q_a.htm


If you really are right and this information is wrong, you better write the National Institute of Health and FDA to tell them are promoting wrong information. Their websites are plastered with this stuff.

Built
03-18-2007, 10:30 AM
Their websites are indeed plastered with the stuff.

Don't stop there - let me know how well the American Food Pyramid works. Or maybe give me an idea of how lowfat pop tarts get the heart-health stamp of approval.

the doc
03-18-2007, 10:41 AM
just so you know the intervention of choice for hypertension used to be to try and eliminate as much sodium from the diet as possible.

well now it is known that changes in dietary sodium actually effect less than 10% of those with hypertension... a special subset. Furthermore, obesity has a much stronger correlation with hypertension than does dietary sodium

another example, the general consensus was that total blood cholesterol was the culprit in atherosclerosis... well we now know that dietary cholesterol intake actually has little effect on serum cholesteral differentials. In fact the body simply upregulates enzymes such as HMG-CoA reducatase to synthesis cholesterol in the liver. It took several years for the upper echelon of the medical establishment to adapt to this fact. Later a whole new class of compounds, the statins, were developed to target cholesterol synthesis

furthermore, one of the newer models of atherosclerotic dz is related to chronic inflammation of the vessel walls. It is not yet known why chronic inflammatory cell activity is very high but indeed may be related to chronic overfeeding

BFGUITAR
03-18-2007, 10:54 AM
I learnt in Food and Nutriton class that saturated fat raises LDL, and mono/poly unsaturated fat can raise HDL. So shouldnt simply lowering your saturated fat intake and raising mono/poly unsaturated fat intake solve the problem?

We also learnt that dietary cholesterol is not as much as a factor in blood cholesterol levels as saturated fat as others have mentioned. I dont understand whats so hard to understand.

the doc
03-18-2007, 10:59 AM
for instance, a ketogenic diet - high in sat fat- has the opposite effect

frankly, the factors effecting these levels are strongly dependant on many factors, and cannot be simplified how the media and public wants it to be

Blanche_Soprano
03-18-2007, 12:11 PM
This cholesterol argument is getting too far off topic from what the op wanted to know. My original point was that fast food is a poor choice for eating. Having it occasionaly is ok, but going overboard can lead to poor health. Can we agree on that or do we need to debate the nutritional value of a big mac?

And about the food pyramid, did you know the government has altered it? They currently have 12 different pyramids set up for the average Americans and are encouraging exercise. Notice how I said average, this does not include certain types of people, like body builders. Compared to the old pyramid, this one is a lot better. Check it out, I think you might be surprised at how close they have it: http://www.mypyramid.gov/