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johny12345
03-26-2007, 11:29 PM
Hey, I just want to make sure that I am doing okay here before I go further.

I am currently doing wbb routine #1 and its going great.

I'm eating between 2700 and 3000 cals per day

I want to make sure my protein/fat/carb #'s are okay for my bulk.
Today was:
Fat=77g
Carbs=329g
protein=238g

Please keep in mind I am skinny fat and am trying to not gain fat and I'm kind of trying to "tone up" before I cut. Should I lower my carbs?

you can look at my fitday journal in my sig. I would love some criticism.

Also, If i want to lose some fat while I'm on my bulk, would it be okay to do hiit?

Mr. D
03-27-2007, 12:52 AM
Add more veggies and fibre to the diet. Add fish oil to the diet. Make sure the you get 1/3rd of your fats from sat,poly and mono and if you cant do that then get more from mono. Think nuts,avocados,natural peanut butter.

Just concentrate on building muscle. Fat gain is inevitable while building muscle. Your caloric level should be fine for a nice,slow bulk. I would slightly lower your carbs and increase your fats. Your protein intake is more than adequate.

Focus on the lifting and increasing weights each week. HIIT would be fine to add on an off day or after legs. On an off day treat it like a workout and make sure your pre and post nutrition are in order.

Built
03-27-2007, 01:00 AM
The carb/fat thing ultimately comes down to comfort - but overall I agree with Mr. D.

Fish oil (http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=272)
fats (http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=284)
HIIT (http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=292)

Good luck!

johny12345
03-27-2007, 10:11 AM
okay thank you very much. Also, I do take 2 fishoil softgels every day. Is that something I should put into fitday? What do you guys think of meal replacements (powder to mix with milk/water)?

Lastly, where can I read about pre/post workout nutrition?

Thank you so much, I have made a lot of improvements since I came to this website.

Mr. D
03-27-2007, 10:31 AM
Check out the beautiful ladies' signature from above. Read ALL her articles!

I would add the fish oil to fitday.

Meal replacements are ok if you are on the run and need a quick meal that meets your macros. I like eating my food, but sometimes I have to make a smoothie to get my cals in by the time I want to be in bed.

But I would just buy Nitrean from at large nutrition or ON 100% whey and make your own shakes (powder,milk,peanut butter,oats,fruit)

SkeetSkeet18
03-27-2007, 11:02 AM
To much protein bro..
If you eat more than your body weight in grams you can overload your liver
and create serious problems..

Unholy
03-27-2007, 11:08 AM
To much protein bro..
If you eat more than your body weight in grams you can overload your liver
and create serious problems..

Wrong.:(

johny12345
03-27-2007, 11:13 AM
Wrong.:(

exactly my thoughts.


I don't have too much protein do I?
Also, I'm thinking about starting creatine. I think it will help fill me out.

SkeetSkeet18
03-27-2007, 11:50 AM
I'll find you 10 or more sources...every article you'll ever read online says this..
Check it out, give me 5 mins..

SkeetSkeet18
03-27-2007, 11:54 AM
http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/protein/whey-protein-sideeffects-information.htm

Second paragraph down discusses liver problems


As for any major whey protein side effects, there is debate over the excessive intake of protein over the long-term (whey protein or any protein). Some experts believe that long-term, excessive protein intake (again whey protein or any protein) may be associated with deteriorating kidney function. Interestingly enough, there isnít any research that supports the idea of kidney damage due to excessive protein intake, but many experts still insist that there is a risk. There are also some experts that believe excessive protein intake can damage the liver and possibly bring about osteoporosis over the long-term.

http://www.mens-total-fitness.com/whey-protein-side-effects.html

4th paragraph down...

So do tell me, who is wrong?

theJamAbides
03-27-2007, 01:09 PM
So do tell me, who is wrong?

You aren't wrong, but you aren't right either... No studies have been done, nothing.

"there isnít any research that supports the idea of kidney damage due to excessive protein intake, but many experts still insist that there is a risk."

They just believe it's a possibility. Just like taking viagra might give you an 18 hour erection, but probably won't.

SkeetSkeet18
03-27-2007, 01:13 PM
I won't take my chances...
I have one liver...
I try not to do anything to over exceed the possibilities of me jacking it up

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-27-2007, 01:25 PM
There isn't a risk with high protein intake and healthy kidneys. If you have already existing kidney problems, then you might have something to worry about. Kidney stones may be a concern, but only if you're not drinking enough fluids.

And the reason they suggest Osteoporosis is because high amounts of protein can leech some of the calcium from you bones. But this issue is easily addressed by...eating more calcium. If you're going to be eating a lot protein, or eating a lot in general, make sure you're drinking plenty of water to keep your kidneys flushed.

The amount of protein he's eating isn't going to "overload his liver". Sorry to break it to you.

And I can Google too...

http://ndt.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/20/3/657

theJamAbides
03-27-2007, 02:02 PM
BTW... You keep saying liver, but these articles are about the kidneys...

SkeetSkeet18
03-27-2007, 02:17 PM
http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/pr...nformation.htm

paragraph two..completely about liver...

and look at the end of what I quoted...liver..

I swear people can't read

theJamAbides
03-27-2007, 02:42 PM
Regardless of being able to read or not, the one thing that BOTH of your articles say is that it is EXTREMELY EXCESSIVE amounts of protein that can cause issues. They never quantify it, but I'm willing to bet it would be in the 10x the amount this guy is taking. Your worries are sort of paranoid if you ask me. But I'm not a scientist, just someone who can't read.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-27-2007, 02:50 PM
http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/pr...nformation.htm

paragraph two..completely about liver...

and look at the end of what I quoted...liver..

I swear people can't readPlease stop reading bodybuilding.com. And please use peer-reviewed studies. And please use links that actually work.

SkeetSkeet18
03-27-2007, 03:34 PM
I'll read what I'd like, I'll believe what I'd like...
and I'll advocate what I know to be true...

Period

McVein
03-27-2007, 03:48 PM
I'll read what I'd like, I'll believe what I'd like...
and I'll advocate what I know to be true...

Period

very hard to take someone called skeetskeet seriously

SkeetSkeet18
03-27-2007, 05:41 PM
And Albert Einstein aint a rather intresting up name?

Unholy
03-27-2007, 05:43 PM
Did your parents name you Skeetskeet? If so, I want whatever they were on.

SkeetSkeet18
03-27-2007, 07:42 PM
My names Schieler, parents called me skeet for short...skeeting is having sex with willing broads...

Skeet Skeet

johny12345
03-27-2007, 07:58 PM
whoever said they didn't quantify is correct. I mean, too much of anything is harmful.

anyway, how do I add fishoil to my fitday? Do I just add the 30 cals, 3 g of fat, 1.5 g polyunsaturated ????

Doesn't seem like its even worth adding....

Mr. D
03-27-2007, 08:18 PM
whoever said they didn't quantify is correct. I mean, too much of anything is harmful.

anyway, how do I add fishoil to my fitday? Do I just add the 30 cals, 3 g of fat, 1.5 g polyunsaturated ????

Doesn't seem like its even worth adding....

I would add the fish oil to the custom foods and I would also up your fish oil intake to about 6-10g a day. I am OCD about caloric intake, so personally I would add, but i guess its up to you.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-27-2007, 08:24 PM
I'll read what I'd like, I'll believe what I'd like...
and I'll advocate what I know to be true...

PeriodSo screw science, right? Right...

SkeetSkeet18
03-28-2007, 09:39 AM
No, but all of the empircal evidence science provides suggests that to much protein can over-load your liver, kidneys and so on..

So what exactly is your point scarz?

johny12345
03-28-2007, 11:46 AM
yeah of course too much protein will cause damage. Your articles never quantify how much protein. Who (besides you) says that 200 g per day is too much?

Too much of anything causes damage....too much water is bad for you too.

SkeetSkeet18
03-28-2007, 11:57 AM
I never said 200G was to much did I? I never specified myself so why are you suggesting I did?

I said 235g of protein seems like it's to much because I go on the basis of 1-1.5g of protein for every LB of bodyweight. It's proven that 1-1.5 is safe AND it's effective and will give you gains...so why exceede it and push the limit plus have un-needed grams of protein floating around acting as free raticals when what we do know and can prove is that thats un nesscary? Yaknow

Vapour Trails
03-28-2007, 12:08 PM
I think it's a bit much protein, but not because I think it's going to hurt you, because it's a waste. It's more than necessary for protein sythesis, so you get AA oxidation for energy or gluconeogenesis. Protein sources are expensive, so why consume more than you really need.

johny12345
03-28-2007, 08:00 PM
yeah....maybe drop down to about 180-200? Where should I get the rest of my cals? I don't wanna go about 90 fat g. and I wanna try and keep the carbs low.

Australian
03-28-2007, 08:24 PM
I can't believe how you people gang up on someone for an arguments sake. You're like a pack of wolves sometimes. Anyway, I read somewhere that you've got to beware, that you can't believe everything that you read.

Levantar
03-29-2007, 02:39 AM
No, but all of the empircal evidence science provides suggests that to much protein can over-load your liver, kidneys and so on..

So what exactly is your point scarz?

This is a paragraph from a link in an article you linked in an earlier post on this very thread.

"Now for the medical and scientific facts. There is not a single scientific study published in a reputable peer - reviewed journal using healthy adults with normal kidney function that has shown any kidney dysfunction what so ever from a high protein diet. Not one of the studies done with healthy athletes that I mentioned above, or other research I have read, has shown any kidney abnormalities at all. Furthermore, animals studies done using high protein diets also fail to show any kidney dysfunction in healthy animals."

You posted the link that lead me to this information.
Here : http://www.mens-total-fitness.com/wh...e-effects.html


Maybe YOUR the one who can't read?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-29-2007, 03:25 AM
I'm done regurgitating the obvious. You can keep believing whatever you want. However, that's not going to help me or anyone else in the pursuit of knowledge.



Maybe YOUR the one who can't read?You're getting that feeling too? LOL. This reminds me of another thread we had on here where a member was asking for help in defending his high protein diet against his mom, who was convinced that it was going to destroy his kidneys. In an effort to disprove him, his mom randomly looked up a medical site with high protein diets and kidney function and just told him "read"...then left the room. The article she found basically stated that high protein diets have no ill effects on healthy individuals with normal kidney function. The irony was wonderful. "Read" she said... Yeah.

:whiner:

SkeetSkeet18
03-29-2007, 11:48 AM
-Sighz...

Kay scarz... if you say so

Slim Schaedle
03-29-2007, 12:37 PM
-Sighz...

Kay scarz... if you say so

Put bluntly, your provided links are crap.


It is also imprtant to note the distinction between high protein in general, and high protein in the form of whey protein, which those links vaguely discuss.

I am going to assume you are not aware of the distinction as it relates to possible liver issues.

Additionally, I am going to assume you are not aware of how that distinction woudl matter, taken in account other macronutrients/amounts consumed thoughout the day.


If I am wrong, please discuss these issues.

Alex.V
03-29-2007, 12:44 PM
No, but all of the empircal evidence science provides suggests that to much protein can over-load your liver, kidneys and so on..



The empirical evidence proves nothing of the sort.

Australian, we're not ganging up on anybody. This is a free message board; a public medium for information exchange. Somebody posts something as advice that others disagree with, they are free to say so. The originator is free to post backup for his opinion. If this evidence is solid, then others can re-evaluate their position.

If this evidence is junk, then others will tell him so.

What I DO see here sometimes, which I wholeheartedly disagree with, is people ganging up on others by posting "Me too" statements. I do see a few in this thread, and they piss me off. However, the majority are constructive attempts to figure out WHERE this guy is coming from, and addressing those points with ample evidence to the contrary.

SkeetSkeet18
03-29-2007, 01:02 PM
The links I provided were addressing whey protein issues.
I'm not gonna sit here and go toe to toe with anyone.
235g Of protein a day for a 190LB man is just ridiculous to me.

I was suggesting the empirical data shows that only 1-1.5g of protein per LB of body weight is needed to make gains and everything else just seems like a waste and creates free radicals. To me it would be like drinking 11 shots of vodka when your drunk off of 6.. what's the point?

Unholy
03-29-2007, 01:06 PM
235g of protein is nothing if you think about it.

SkeetSkeet18
03-29-2007, 01:09 PM
Over A month of taking in 235g of protein a day it's gonna add up..
Thats an extra 1025g you don't need...

Unholy
03-29-2007, 01:12 PM
Thats like saying too much carb's and fat will add up. If someone is eating to get stronger the cals have to come from somewhere. My brother has been bulking for 2 years straight. started at 140lbs and is at 210-215 now. Same Bodyfat %, prolly eats 400g protein a day with no problems. If protein is so bad for you in excess then show me the bodies.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-29-2007, 02:30 PM
Over A month of taking in 235g of protein a day it's gonna add up..
Thats an extra 1025g you don't need...Where are you getting these ideas from? Whether they're needed or not, people are going to be getting these amounts of macronutrients because the level of calories they need to consume to gain weight requires it. If you reached a point where you needed to consume 4,000+ calories a day to put on weight, you'd realize this. There's no way around it. I still don't know where you're drawing these ideas from. And if you are planning on getting big and muscular in the long run, I'd hate to see how you'd react when it comes time to make the decision of how to break down your macros when you're consuming a high amount of calories. Furthermore, each individual is different and their body will use what it needs. Everyone's needs are different.

Slim Schaedle
03-29-2007, 02:44 PM
Over A month of taking in 235g of protein a day it's gonna add up..
Thats an extra 1025g you don't need...

If you are not looking to go "toe to toe" with anyone on here, I suggest you stop making these types of comments.

theJamAbides
03-29-2007, 03:20 PM
First, this is not a ME TOO post, but I do want to reiterate that I am a 195 lb man eating over 235 g of protein a day.



235g Of protein a day for a 190LB man is just ridiculous to me.

I was suggesting the empirical data shows that only 1-1.5g of protein per LB of body weight is needed to make gains

If a 190 lb man were to choose to eat 1.5 g of protein per lb, he'd be eating:
(I love formulas and math in general)

1.5g protein x 190 lbs = 285g or way more than he's currently eating. Am I just missing something that you are seeing Skeet?

SkeetSkeet18
03-29-2007, 03:53 PM
I rounded 190 to 200 than multiplied the extra 35g per day times 30 for a month...

It's really not that complicated to see lol

Paul Stagg
03-29-2007, 04:21 PM
So you are saying eating 1.5g per pound is or is not too much.

190 * 1.5 > 235

You seem to say it is, then you say it isn't.

Slim Schaedle
03-29-2007, 04:22 PM
I rounded 190 to 200 than multiplied the extra 35g per day times 30 for a month...

It's really not that complicated to see lol

Can you explain how this is going to play a part in damaging the liver and/or kidneys?

I ask b/c the only support you have given is links to articles stating that "some experts believe..."

SkeetSkeet18
03-29-2007, 05:09 PM
Honestly I don't know if it will but I don't want to take my chances...I was given ONE liver lol..

My argument is that if your eating 1g of protein for every LB you weigh and that its PROVEN that's all the protein your body needs...Why over exceed it when there MIGHT be a chance it can do harm?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-29-2007, 05:46 PM
What's your diet like?

n4rd0
03-29-2007, 05:52 PM
I'll read what I'd like, I'll believe what I'd like...
and I'll advocate what I know to be true...

Period

You don't know the information your advocating is true. In the links you provided it even said the experts beilieved that too much protein could cause liver and kidney damage, but they don't have any proof to back their beliefs up. You cant use those sources as proof that someone is taking too much protein because the "experts" didn't even say how much was too much.

Australian
03-29-2007, 05:56 PM
http://tinyurl.com/29xodw ;)

SkeetSkeet18
03-29-2007, 07:50 PM
I said I will advocate what IIII lol...not you, not scientists...I, thats me, personally...Know to be true
My diets pretty hectic...eat everything and anything I can...I'm on a bulk..

SkeetSkeet18
03-29-2007, 07:52 PM
Thanks for the reference Australian but like everyone said...If no studies have been done you can not argue what it does do...

Has to be a personal opinion.

theJamAbides
03-29-2007, 08:58 PM
I'm a living study, as well as about 5 million other atheletes.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-29-2007, 11:07 PM
Thanks for the reference Australian but like everyone said...If no studies have been done you can not argue what it does do...

Has to be a personal opinion.You're digging yourself a hole. I provided a link with cited sources that go against your claim. You gave a link with experts with no studies who "think" that it could be a problem. Do you know what an opinion is? You've been strongly showcasing some in this thread. You didn't even fully read the links you provided. If you see a piece of information, even if it is taken out of context or shortened to lose all meaning...as long as it coincides with your unbreakable opinions you are willing to defend it through the teeth. If you at least showed us something that might be worth reading that goes up against the boatload of studies showing there's no ill effects of high protein diets on healthy kidneys, or the liver claim, for that matter (reputable sources, not bodybuilding.com), then maybe we can start having an intelligent debate. Until then, constantly using "nuh uh!" isn't really going to provide any educational benefit to the members here at WBB. We are always challenging ideas and constantly growing and learning. If we think something isn't right, we will seek further into the matter so that we are in the know. Ignorance is not something that is easily accepted on this site. Knowledge is a wonderful thing. Once you start learning as much as you can, you'll begin to realize you know nothing (generally speaking). Yes, information can change, but nutrition has remained quite the same over the last 3 decades. You also need to realize that there is all kinds of crappy information readily available to your fingertips. You need to learn to weed out the crappy information.

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 05:35 AM
I did not read anything you wrote scarz...
But okay lol...

Alex.V
03-30-2007, 06:24 AM
I did not read anything you wrote scarz...
But okay lol...

That pretty much sums up why you're not getting any respect.

Chubrock
03-30-2007, 07:44 AM
That pretty much sums up why you're not getting any respect.

:withstupi




Haha just f'in with ya Alex.

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 09:02 AM
Because I've already read his statements and links and rather believe what I've read and what I know about biology?

I don't HAVE to take his opinion..it is okay to agree to disagree...Why would that not make someone respect me...unless there on a egotistical trip and feel everything they say people should believe?


Get your head straight..

Slim Schaedle
03-30-2007, 09:08 AM
Because I've already read his statements and links and rather believe what I've read and what I know about biology?

I don't HAVE to take his opinion..it is okay to agree to disagree...Why would that not make someone respect me...unless there on a egotistical trip and feel everything they say people should believe?


Get your head straight..

How old are you?

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 09:08 AM
18 ^^

Chubrock
03-30-2007, 09:12 AM
Haha wow. Dude take it from me, you'll look back on this point (hopefully)when you're older and think to yourself, 'self, I was an idiot'. Trust me man. You're arguing with people that are older, and much much wiser than yourself. Your beliefs are wrong, and are backed by no science. You'll understand this as you get older and mature.

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 09:22 AM
Some science suggests that its harmful for you and I see the logic in to much of something being bad for you..

What the hell? lol

Alex.V
03-30-2007, 09:28 AM
believe what I've read and what I know about biology?




You're right. A high school education provides one with all the tools they need to analyze and evaluate every aspect of the various metabolic processes that determine proper nutrition.

There are three steps that everyone follows when learning about a topic.

1) Thinking you know nothing
2) Thinking you know everything
3) Knowing you know nothing.

It is at the third step that you can finally consider yourself a beginner.

Congratulations on being stuck on step two.

Chubrock
03-30-2007, 09:32 AM
What studies have you posted show that a (defined) increase in protein consumption leads to damage in the liver? Even the article you linked to stated that there were no definitive studies that have shown anything to support your beliefs. Could a very high level of protein, or any macronutrient for that matter, have a negative effect on health? Of course, anything is possible to a certain extent. There have been no studies, that I know of, that clearly define what a "very high level" is. You're basing things on your opinions of what a "very high level" is, though you have no evidence to back it up. To be honest, the protein levels you have outlined would be laughable to a lot of people I know. Heck, I'm 160lbs and eat well over 200g of protein on a daily basis.

Anybody can have an opinion, but to pass these off as facts when you have no supporting evidence is not only unacceptable, but could very well be dangerous at certain points.

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 09:47 AM
Studies have shown a SUGGESTED ratio that protein can damage organs. It's not definitive. Also I'm not in high school. I've been taking college biology since I was 16. But thats irrelevant. From what I know.. To much of ANYTHING is bad...even protein.. **** bananas can probably kill you if you consume to many. Over a life time of consuming 1000 extra g's of protein a month.. How can you say it wont effect you? It's logical to me. 100x12 = 12000 x 30 years = 360,000...Thats 360,000g of protein thats un needed... It WILL have an effect, it has to..Scientifically.

Alex.V
03-30-2007, 10:38 AM
It WILL have an effect, it has to..Scientifically.


No. It does not have to. Scientifically. And this is the fundamental fallacy in your argument that makes me cringe.

I agree that too much of anything can be bad. However, the amount you're claiming is too much is also the same amount you earlier claimed was just right. Read your posts again. If you do want to make a coherent argument, and not have people pile on you, make sure you're being consistent. Go back and look at your 1-1.5g/lb statement, then look at the amount you claim is unhealthy. Fix that misunderstanding, or explain it a bit better, and maybe we can move on.

Mik
03-30-2007, 10:39 AM
You're right. A high school education provides one with all the tools they need to analyze and evaluate every aspect of the various metabolic processes that determine proper nutrition.

There are three steps that everyone follows when learning about a topic.

1) Thinking you know nothing
2) Thinking you know everything
3) Knowing you know nothing.

It is at the third step that you can finally consider yourself a beginner.

Congratulations on being stuck on step two.

LOL. Belial you're on fire lately!

theJamAbides
03-30-2007, 10:47 AM
It WILL have an effect, it has to..Scientifically.


Scientifically, excess proteins (amino acids at this point) get broken down into other nutrients (Fat, glycogen, whatever). So you're monthly tally just doesn't compute. At all. I'm not going to outline it all here, you can look it up.

Honestly, you don't need science for this, you need common sense. I didn't have ANY when I was 18, so I guess I can't expect it from you. But what I did have though, was respect for people that were in the know, and a little bit of ****ing humility.

But here's what really pisses me off, and I've seen you on other threads doing this too. Goddamnit, you're telling this guy who asked about his diet that he's eating WAY too much protein and might just set himself up for death. That's BAD information. Christ.

For ****s sake man. ****.

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 11:22 AM
^^ I'm not disrespecting anyone? I'm arguing my opinion, and that's perfectly fine and understandable. We are humans and as humans we all have a different opinion, correct or not.

I'm advocating to people what I have learned. It's my only basis to respond on so why criticize me for what I have learned from other people or research. Criticize them for putting out false information. yes I am willing to change an Idea if I feel reasonable cause. In this case I don't and there is NOTHING wrong with that...

As far as the 1.0-1.5G of protein.. I was pointing out people tend to say this a lot but I wouldn't go over 1.0g for every LB of body weight personally in the form of weigh protein. That's me, thats what I believe is a sufficient amount so I'm going to recommend it.

If someone can show me some kind of creditable documentation where there is research over a extended amount of whey protein use, at LEAST 10 yrs...Showing it causes no side effects or terminal damage to any part of our bodies I will re evaluate my position but since there is not. I will hold my place on the beliefs that to much of anything can be bad, especially every day for a extended amount of time...

Theres no need to call me disrespectful or say I'm an idiot or shouldn't be respected....it's my thoughts based on what i've learned... not that big of a deal

Alex.V
03-30-2007, 11:31 AM
If someone can show me some kind of creditable documentation where there is research over a extended amount of whey protein use, at LEAST 10 yrs...

Why would anybody do an extended 10 year study on the effects of whey protein? It's a normal protein found in milk, this is nothing new. There are plenty of populations in the world that eat large amounts of protein over extended periods of time, and plenty of documentation as to their relative stages of health. What is this perception that whey is anything special?

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 02:10 PM
Most whey is chemically enhanced these days.
And there has been reports done on many foods where long term chronic use leads to cancer and disease..Such as red meat.. Thats a product of nature and can increase the chances of colon cancer. lots of foods can do damaging effects if eating to much for a extended amount of time. How about caffeine? caffeine is a bi product of nature? It can lead to high blood pressure and heart abnormalities so what exactly are you saying my good sir?

theJamAbides
03-30-2007, 02:51 PM
Most whey is chemically enhanced these days.
And there has been reports done on many foods where long term chronic use leads to cancer and disease..Such as red meat.. Thats a product of nature and can increase the chances of colon cancer. lots of foods can do damaging effects if eating to much for a extended amount of time. How about caffeine? caffeine is a bi product of nature? It can lead to high blood pressure and heart abnormalities so what exactly are you saying my good sir?

But we aren't talking about caffeine and red meat....

Who was it that said Intellectual Bankruptcy in another thread recently?

Chubrock
03-30-2007, 03:01 PM
Haha it was Belial.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-30-2007, 03:31 PM
An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified. If it later becomes proven or verified, it is no longer an opinion, but a fact.

In economics, philosophy, or other social sciences, analysis based on opinions is referred to as normative analysis (what ought to be), as opposed to positive analysis, which is based on scientific observation (what materially is). In mathematics and logic there can be no opinions about some claims, equations, and arguments, because often these kinds of statements are either valid or invalid, and true or false, and not open to contradicting opinions.

Historically, the distinction of proven knowledge and opinion was articulated by some Ancient Greek philosophers. Plato's analogy of the divided line is a well-known illustration of the distinction between knowledge and opinion.
In psychology, egocentrism is the characteristic of regarding oneself and one's own opinions or interests as most important. The term derives from the Greek egŰ, meaning "I." An egocentric person has no theory of mind, cannot "put himself in other people's shoes," and believes everyone sees what he sees (or that what he sees in some way exceeds what others see.):read:

Australian
03-30-2007, 04:04 PM
I love fights when I'm not a part of them :)

Unholy
03-30-2007, 04:16 PM
Skeetskeet just went bankrupt son, call the repo agency.

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 05:10 PM
I already stated it was my opinions. I'm a psych major actually.
I'm not diffusing anything. I've stated my side, I've stated why and where it comes from..I didn't say anyone here was incorrect...I've used consistent I statements and said these are my beliefs, and I've told you they may not be true and there only my opinions.. So whats your point scarz?

Paul Stagg
03-30-2007, 05:16 PM
His point is that you are standing in the street yelling "The Earth is flat, because that's what I see!".

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 05:20 PM
What's wrong with that? if thats my opinion and I want to be ignorant is that not my free willed choice and right?

Slim Schaedle
03-30-2007, 05:21 PM
What's wrong with that? if thats my opinion and I want to be ignorant is that not my free willed choice and right?

Free will? Choice? Opinion?

Sure.


But shut the **** up about it and don't impose on it other people as advice.

Paul Stagg
03-30-2007, 05:22 PM
It's fine. Just don't post on a message board telling someone how to sail to India.

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 05:25 PM
I'll post on a FREE posting board what I want...despite what you, them or joe schmo feels if I believe its necessary.

theJamAbides
03-30-2007, 05:26 PM
What's wrong with that? if thats my opinion and I want to be ignorant is that not my free willed choice and right?

You cannot want to be ignorant. You are either ignorant or not. We have supplied you with more than enough resources, examples, FIRST HAND ACCOUNTS, to have made you aware, there enlightening you out of ignorance.

It's not that you WANT to be ignorant, it's that you choose to remain stupid.

No offense though.

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 05:30 PM
Than thats my choice, and I choose it...

Chubrock
03-30-2007, 05:39 PM
You give out ****ty advice that could potentially harm somebody, and you won't be posting here very long.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-30-2007, 05:42 PM
Than thats my choice, and I choose it...I can't believe you're actually serious. :scratch:

theJamAbides
03-30-2007, 05:48 PM
This thread has completely made my day. You would be perfect for my ex-wife. That was her dumb ass logic too.

Alex.V
03-30-2007, 05:54 PM
I'll post on a FREE posting board what I want...despite what you, them or joe schmo feels if I believe its necessary.

And that is absolutely your right! Seriously.



But don't get all whiny when people cast aspersions on your intellect.

the doc
03-30-2007, 06:29 PM
ahh well who didn't know everything when they were 18 :rolleyes:

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 06:36 PM
I never got whiny and how is what I recommend going to hurt anyone?
Not taking more protein than their suggested body weight? Please inform me how that will hurt you lol

the doc
03-30-2007, 06:41 PM
but who said it would hurt you?

not crossing the street wont hurt you but how will you get to school?

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 07:02 PM
Ugh chubrock did

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-30-2007, 07:04 PM
What you were saying has no health concerns, but your crappy advice might have some effect on the mental health of others.

Chubrock
03-30-2007, 07:12 PM
I never got whiny and how is what I recommend going to hurt anyone?
Not taking more protein than their suggested body weight? Please inform me how that will hurt you lol



I never stated that the specific advice you were giving in this thread would cause physical harm. I stated that if you gave incorrect advice that could potentially harm someone, then you wouldn't be posting here very much longer. Your blatant disregard for correctness and desire to speak your piece no matter how dumb it is, could potentially put somebody in a harmful situation in the future.

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 07:13 PM
Than there mental sophistication wasn't that perplexed to begin with if there going to take the advice of a "18" year old right, scarz?? ;-)

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 07:15 PM
I can not put someone in harms way as much as you can make someone shoot them selves..

people are the own bearers of their demise despite peer advice...
Ultimatly it's ones own decision so they can be to blame..

right?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-30-2007, 07:15 PM
Sure.

Also, stop giving crappy advice.

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 07:16 PM
Knew youd'd agree =-D

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 07:16 PM
As Ive stated before..It's my free posting right to post what I want with in the boards guidlines. And I definiatly am.

Chubrock
03-30-2007, 07:17 PM
Than there mental sophistication wasn't that perplexed to begin with if there going to take the advice of a "18" year old right, scarz?? ;-)

Actually, they would have to be very "mentally perplexed" to take the advice of a 18yr old. Stop stringing words together in an attempt to make yourself appear smarter than you are.

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 07:38 PM
Im not stringing words together. My sentances are comprehensive arent they?

Slim Schaedle
03-30-2007, 07:42 PM
Im not stringing words together. My sentances are comprehensive arent they?

How about you just stop.

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 07:45 PM
Stop what, might I ask?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-30-2007, 07:46 PM
Being intentionally obnoxious beyond comprehension, probably?

SkeetSkeet18
03-30-2007, 07:50 PM
Are you not replying back and fuling it just as much?

Mr. D
03-30-2007, 08:51 PM
It's fine. Just don't post on a message board telling someone how to sail to India.

Ahh the motherland...Vande Matrem!

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
03-30-2007, 08:52 PM
Are you not replying back and fuling it just as much?You could end this yourself, but you won't. So don't humor me with those kinds or remarks. The next reply can be yours, since you seem to admire having the last word. Go for it. Really...be my guest.

Paul Stagg
03-30-2007, 09:05 PM
The moderator always gets the last word.

Trolling is a very bad idea. I let it slide in this thread, but it won't continue.