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schmitty199
03-29-2007, 09:19 PM
What's better for building leg strength? Me and a friend were debating this and id like you see your inputs.

An example of a track practice is as follows:

30 minutes of stretching, leg lifts(abs), and situps. 10 minutes of "form running" (high knees butt kicks karyoke ect)

Jog 2 warmup laps around the track.

3 timed 100's full speed. 2 300's full speed. 4 200's full speed. 4 100's full speed. 6 50's full speed. 6 hills(fairley steep but not all that big of a hill... maybe 15 meters of actual ground covered while running each) Jog a cool down lap. There's honestly very short breaks between each run as well. Never more then a minute.

That or 4 sets of 8 rep parralell squats.

What's going to make your legs stronger?

Blitzforce
03-29-2007, 09:28 PM
umm they both build different types of qualities!

do both - but setup properly as sprints are very CNS intensive, and before youc an sprint properly you need to amke sure your body can handle the forces, plus you can actually sprint properly on the balls of your feet

squats make you sprint faster -well acclerate faster, plyos help top speed in sprints

running flat out all the time isn't recommened, especially the faster you get. That's like doing 1RM squats every session...

schmitty199
03-29-2007, 09:33 PM
umm they both build different types of qualities!

do both - but setup properly as sprints are very CNS intensive, and before youc an sprint properly you need to amke sure your body can handle the forces, plus you can actually sprint properly on the balls of your feet

squats make you sprint faster -well acclerate faster, plyos help top speed in sprints

running flat out all the time isn't recommened, especially the faster you get. That's like doing 1RM squats every session...


Just to clarify not every practice is all sprints like that but they all about equal that in toughness.

Thanks for your input though. :)

teenathlete3030
03-30-2007, 06:06 AM
Holy crap, that practice would suck. I suppose that's the nice thing about jumping, I can focus more on lifting since I do less sprints. Blitzforce is right about the lifting, plyos, and CNS.

schmitty199
03-31-2007, 12:06 PM
If you had to choose between the 2 types of workouts for football which would you choose?

KingJustin
03-31-2007, 12:17 PM
If you want to build size, then lifting weights is the winner by a mile.

If you're talking about strength, then you have to determine what kind ...
Maximal strength - Lifting (not close)
Explosive strength - Olympic/dynamic lifting, again, not really close, but sprints/plyos help somewhat
Strength-endurance - Both are useful in this case ...
General Anaerobic Endurance - Track ..

No offense towards running track, but it just isn't going to make your legs strong like lifting will. That in mind, if you want to do football, you should work both into your routine ...

Running sprints is going to help your cardio. It's going to make you faster. Plyos are going to make you quicker and more agile. Lifting is going to make you big, strong, and explosive.

If you want to play football, start reading up on the "Conjugate Method" and incorporate the principles into your training ... Basically, every "week" (you can make this an 8-14 day period if you want), you'll want to do maximal/dynamic/repetitive lifting, plyometrics, "GPP", and sport specific exercises (sprints would be one example)

One problem that you might encounter is that if you're running track -- especially if you're going that intensely 5 days a week -- then you're not going to be able to do much lifting at all. I wouldn't recommend track to someone that juts wants to be good at football unless they're just lazy and need track to be motivated.

I ran cross country/indoor track in high school until I decided I only cared about lacrosse and lifting weights.

schmitty199
03-31-2007, 02:14 PM
If you want to build size, then lifting weights is the winner by a mile.

If you're talking about strength, then you have to determine what kind ...
Maximal strength - Lifting (not close)
Explosive strength - Olympic/dynamic lifting, again, not really close, but sprints/plyos help somewhat
Strength-endurance - Both are useful in this case ...
General Anaerobic Endurance - Track ..

No offense towards running track, but it just isn't going to make your legs strong like lifting will. That in mind, if you want to do football, you should work both into your routine ...

Running sprints is going to help your cardio. It's going to make you faster. Plyos are going to make you quicker and more agile. Lifting is going to make you big, strong, and explosive.

If you want to play football, start reading up on the "Conjugate Method" and incorporate the principles into your training ... Basically, every "week" (you can make this an 8-14 day period if you want), you'll want to do maximal/dynamic/repetitive lifting, plyometrics, "GPP", and sport specific exercises (sprints would be one example)

One problem that you might encounter is that if you're running track -- especially if you're going that intensely 5 days a week -- then you're not going to be able to do much lifting at all. I wouldn't recommend track to someone that juts wants to be good at football unless they're just lazy and need track to be motivated.

I ran cross country/indoor track in high school until I decided I only cared about lacrosse and lifting weights.

Im still not convinced track doesnt make your alot bigger and stronger. Last track season I didnt touch a squat rack more then once or twice and my squat went up. I noticed my legs got alot bigger as well, especially the hamstrings and calfs. We'll see what happens at the end of this season I suppose.

I mostly just concentrate on the upper body and cleans during track.

KingJustin
03-31-2007, 02:29 PM
You can believe that all you want, but the fact is that running sprints are going to have relatively very little effect on your maximal leg strength in comparison to squats/deadlifts/cleans/variations.

Go find a top high school track star that doesn't lift weights and compare his max squat to a good linebacker.

Clifford Gillmore
03-31-2007, 08:28 PM
Lou Simmons of Westside Barbell has trained some sprinters using a timing protocol, where the athelete's training set lasted as long as the most explosive part of the race. I think it shaved around half a second off a 10.5 100m runner.

Think.

aming37
03-31-2007, 09:39 PM
You can believe that all you want, but the fact is that running sprints are going to have relatively very little effect on your maximal leg strength in comparison to squats/deadlifts/cleans/variations.

Go find a top high school track star that doesn't lift weights and compare his max squat to a good linebacker.

I'm guessing you’re a beginner as far as squats go. And if you’re a beginning squatter then doing anything, even riding a bicycle, is going to increase your squat a bit and make your legs get bigger.

As far as your original question my opinion (as well as that of many top the top strength coaches in the industry) is that maximal strength is the foundation on which other forms of strength are built. The other types of strength are strength-speed (moderate weight, moderate speed such as olympic lifts), speed-strength (fast reps with 10-20% of 1RM such as sled dragging), strength endurance (light weights, high reps) or ballistic (plyometrics, med ball).

Doing sprints on the track and on hills is mostly anaerobic and a little bit speed-strength (more so for hills than running on a track).

By the way I got a lot of what I just said from "The Black Book of Training Secrets" by Christian Thibaudeau. If you haven't read it I recommend you do.

schmitty199
04-01-2007, 08:25 AM
I'm guessing you’re a beginner as far as squats go. And if you’re a beginning squatter then doing anything, even riding a bicycle, is going to increase your squat a bit and make your legs get bigger.

As far as your original question my opinion (as well as that of many top the top strength coaches in the industry) is that maximal strength is the foundation on which other forms of strength are built. The other types of strength are strength-speed (moderate weight, moderate speed such as olympic lifts), speed-strength (fast reps with 10-20% of 1RM such as sled dragging), strength endurance (light weights, high reps) or ballistic (plyometrics, med ball).

Doing sprints on the track and on hills is mostly anaerobic and a little bit speed-strength (more so for hills than running on a track).

By the way I got a lot of what I just said from "The Black Book of Training Secrets" by Christian Thibaudeau. If you haven't read it I recommend you do.


Thanks.

Eh, not really a beginner at squats. About 3 years of taking them seriously.

Isaac Wilkins
04-01-2007, 08:36 AM
You certainly can get bigger and stronger through sprinting and jumping, especially at 16 years old, where you'll probably get bigger and stronger sitting on the couch playing XBox.

As was said, the squatting/weight training will provide a much larger impetus for growth and strength.

Given that there are football and track athletes in this discussion, do both.

Mr. _____
04-01-2007, 08:37 AM
Track will only make you better at football. It's simple.. speed is important in football and track develops speed. Yes, lifting will develop more pure strength in your legs than track will. But nothing improves speed more than sprinting in track. Do track, then lift after practice to work on your strength (yes you'll have to move down in weight a little because you'll be tired) and you'll get the best of both worlds.

Isaac Wilkins
04-01-2007, 09:03 AM
Track will only make you better at football. It's simple.. speed is important in football and track develops speed. Yes, lifting will develop more pure strength in your legs than track will. But nothing improves speed more than sprinting in track. Do track, then lift after practice to work on your strength (yes you'll have to move down in weight a little because you'll be tired) and you'll get the best of both worlds.

There are a lot more efficient ways to schedule a program to achieve better results. The question is whether or not his coaches will allow it.

schmitty199
04-01-2007, 09:58 AM
Track will only make you better at football. It's simple.. speed is important in football and track develops speed. Yes, lifting will develop more pure strength in your legs than track will. But nothing improves speed more than sprinting in track. Do track, then lift after practice to work on your strength (yes you'll have to move down in weight a little because you'll be tired) and you'll get the best of both worlds.

I do all the lifts except squats during track. From past expierence squats leave you short of energy, and lack of explosiveness for days after in running.

Mr. _____
04-02-2007, 08:21 PM
As long as I don't lift right before a meet I've found that I do just fine. Make sure you get a thorough warmup before workouts and your stiffness/soreness from lifting the day before will not affect you as much as you think it will. This is just my opinion from my experiences, take it for what it's worth.

Bupp
04-02-2007, 09:46 PM
Go find a top high school track star that doesn't lift weights and compare his max squat to a good linebacker.


Good luck finding a top high school track star that doesn't lift weights.

And girly man steeple-chaser/10k runners don't count.

KingJustin
04-02-2007, 10:14 PM
Well, yeah, there's not a whole lot of them. That's because to be an elite athlete you (pretty much) have to weight train.

stevec087
04-09-2007, 05:44 PM
I feel that heavy squats made me less agile for the first 2-3 weeks of season. Squats definitely have their place, but I would start focusing on actual sprint work/plyos once you start approaching your season.

Chubrock
04-10-2007, 08:39 AM
I feel that heavy squats made me less agile for the first 2-3 weeks of season. Squats definitely have their place, but I would start focusing on actual sprint work/plyos once you start approaching your season.

Don't see any reason that squatting should make you less agile, unless you neglect all your other training.

stevec087
04-10-2007, 10:22 AM
May have been because the squatting created an imbalance between my quads and posterior chain.

Chubrock
04-10-2007, 11:07 AM
Unless you squat with an insanely close stance, I doubt you'd have too much imbalance. You sure you just didn't slack off on your mobility work?

ericg
04-10-2007, 11:22 AM
Or he uses a smith machine

stevec087
04-10-2007, 11:49 AM
I squat with a medium stance, and I was doing box squats off a 12 in box at the time so I guess the quad/hammy imbalance thing doesn't make sense. Whatever it was I'm incorporating more plyo work into my routine once season ends. I don't use a smith machine.