PDA

View Full Version : Eating after a hard workout



DaveDrewB
02-21-2002, 09:41 PM
well i have heard that eating right after a hard workout at the gym is not good for testosterone, or something like that i dont know exactly, but it was something like that, and i guess your supposed to wait to eat for like at least 45 min.! Anyone no anything about this? info would be appreciated!! Thanks

Qea
02-21-2002, 09:44 PM
er no.

eat immediately.

prefably in liquid form, cuz it gets digested and absorbed quicker

you need the nutrients as soon as your muscle glycogen stores get exhausted from your workout.

eat eat eat (or in my case, drink drink drink)

DaveDrewB
02-21-2002, 09:47 PM
okay well then i was just gonna start bumping my protein shake right after i hit the gym! that would probably be best!! Thanks!

BCC
02-21-2002, 10:39 PM
Fish is also an excellent "quick" source of protein after a grueling workout.

MonStar1023
02-22-2002, 06:26 AM
Postworkout I would recommend a liquid type of food so it gets into your system quicker. Something like whey protein with some dextrose/maltodextrin. Add some creatine or glutamine to really make it excellent.

:cool::cool:

syntekz
02-22-2002, 06:28 AM
Monstar already hit it, but don't forget some carb source along with your protein.

Slim Schaedle
02-22-2002, 08:40 AM
I'm going to start a whey/malto/dextrose cult...anyone in?

max_power
02-22-2002, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Qea
er no.

eat immediately.

prefably in liquid form, cuz it gets digested and absorbed quicker

you need the nutrients as soon as your muscle glycogen stores get exhausted from your workout.

eat eat eat (or in my case, drink drink drink) :thumbup:

BIG POPPA PUMP
02-22-2002, 12:42 PM
Drink your shake or whatever during your last few sets or right after then try to eat about an hour or so after that it always works for me.


BIG POPPA PUMP IS YOUR HOOK-UP HOLLA IF U HEAR ME- SCOTT STIENER

Smoothie
02-23-2002, 06:28 PM
Right after my workout, I take my creatine and then my protein shake with milk.

Now I know I should be taking in some carbs in liquid form asap, but what can I take? I don't want to spend money on malto etc, can I take juice or something else like Gatorade or just orange juice etc.???
Thanks!!

Maki Riddington
02-23-2002, 06:41 PM
Buy some dextrose and mix it in with some fruit juice.
This potion will be sufficient.

Smoothie
02-23-2002, 06:45 PM
Is that the best option? What about juice alone or milk?

How much is the stuff and how much do I take, is there a difference between brands, where do I get it, a supplement store? I am about 5'8" and 175lbs, I am looking to bulk up and add about 5-10lbs.
Thanks for your help!!! :)

Maki Riddington
02-23-2002, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by Smoothie
Is that the best option? What about juice alone or milk?

How much is the stuff and how much do I take, is there a difference between brands, where do I get it, a supplement store? I am about 5'8" and 175lbs, I am looking to bulk up and add about 5-10lbs.
Thanks for your help!!! :)

*** No milk isn't your best option. Juice isn't either as fructose is primarily geared towards liver gylcogen replenishment.
Dextrose is cheap, darn cheap. You can buy it in little white baggies at any supp store. They usually run about 2 dollars per kiolgram or even cheaper. That is if my memory serves me correctly. There is no difference between brands.

Smoothie
02-23-2002, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington


*** No milk isn't your best option. Juice isn't either as fructose is primarily geared towards liver gylcogen replenishment.
Dextrose is cheap, darn cheap. You can buy it in little white baggies at any supp store. They usually run about 2 dollars per kiolgram or even cheaper. That is if my memory serves me correctly. There is no difference between brands.

How much of it should I be taking after my workouts? Do i mix it in my protein drink or in water etc.??
Thanks again!!!

Maki Riddington
02-23-2002, 07:14 PM
Mix the dextrose in with some fruit juice and some whet in a blender or your shaker bottle.

If you want to be more specific you can down some BCAA's first then have your shake 30 minutes later.

Anyways I'm getting off topic, the amount you should take in varies but here is one way of gauging how much you should be taking in.
0.4-0.8 grams of dextrose or glucose per pound of bodyweight.
So for you that would be between 70 and 140 grams post workout.

Smoothie
02-23-2002, 07:19 PM
Originally posted by Maki Riddington
Mix the dextrose in with some fruit juice and some whet in a blender or your shaker bottle.

If you want to be more specific you can down some BCAA's first then have your shake 30 minutes later.

Anyways I'm getting off topic, the amount you should take in varies but here is one way of gauging how much you should be taking in.
0.4-0.8 grams of dextrose or glucose per pound of bodyweight.
So for you that would be between 70 and 140 grams post workout.

Damn that seems like a lot! My shake is gonna be huge, 35g of whey and ~100g of dextrose, it either going to be thick, or I gotta use more liquid.

Is there a tate to it? Can I mix it with milk or water and my whey, instead of juice? I don't think oj and chocolate go well together.
Thanks again!!!!!!

The_Chicken_Daddy
02-23-2002, 07:22 PM
there's only so much dextrose that can cross the mebrane or someshit like that. Damn, drunkenness ruins my brain.

this is why a dextrose/malto mix comes in handy. the dextrose goes straight through whereas the malto takes a little longer.

50g dextrose is enough. make the rest up from malto.

Maki Riddington
02-23-2002, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
there's only so much dextrose that can cross the mebrane or someshit like that.

*** True but does anyone know how much can actually cross the membrane? So far I don't think so.
Btw I agree with the blend of malto, dextrose and fructose.

Maki Riddington
02-23-2002, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by Smoothie


Damn that seems like a lot! My shake is gonna be huge, 35g of whey and ~100g of dextrose, it either going to be thick, or I gotta use more liquid.

Is there a tate to it? Can I mix it with milk or water and my whey, instead of juice? I don't think oj and chocolate go well together.
Thanks again!!!!!!

*** Yes. The fructose isn't absolutley needed.

The_Chicken_Daddy
02-23-2002, 07:41 PM
I have no idea how much can cross the membrane.

Would it not depend on the individual?

Maki Riddington
02-23-2002, 07:51 PM
Probally, but for now the jury is out on how much dextrose can actually be transported across the membrane.
Unless someone knows something I don't.

Smoothie
02-23-2002, 07:55 PM
So is the concensus to take 50g or dext and 50g of malto??
Is the malto around the same price at the dext?

That still seems like alot, 100g + 35g for whey, oh well!

Oh, is that 100g I am adding all carbs?? What if I take 25g of each, then eat a meal an hour or two later with carbs protein and fat??
Thanks for your help!!!!!

Maki Riddington
02-23-2002, 07:59 PM
25/25 is fine.
Just keep it simple.

Main-2k
02-23-2002, 10:53 PM
What is dextrose and where can I buy it?

Sebi
02-24-2002, 04:23 AM
As far as I know, dextrose is a kind of sugar found in grapes. It provides your body with energy quicker than anything else.

By the way, did anybody have a word abot water? I think it's also very important, that you have your amount of plain water after workout.

Main-2k
02-24-2002, 07:38 AM
My post workout routine is a protein shake and some chicken/tuna.

Is that good enough?

syntekz
02-24-2002, 08:23 AM
Originally posted by Main-2k
My post workout routine is a protein shake and some chicken/tuna.

Is that good enough?

Something like dextrose would be better. But what you are eating already is good too(Except you really do you want a carb source after training).

You can get pure dextrose at most nutrition stores online. PM me if you need a good one(Don't feel like advertising). How much protein are you getting?

syntekz
02-24-2002, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by Sebi
By the way, did anybody have a word abot water? I think it's also very important, that you have your amount of plain water after workout.

I drink water all day(except on the weekends). Seems that's all I do at work while I'm sitting at my desk.

Manipul8r
02-24-2002, 12:28 PM
protein in milk w/smoe creatine, and a side of cottage cheese (the singles they sell with the the fruit in it) I like the pineapple or strawberry kind, makes an excellent post workout meal... YUM!@!@@

David
02-25-2002, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by DaveDrewB
well i have heard that eating right after a hard workout at the gym is not good

Let me tell you that eating after exericse is very important.

This is the time to feed your muscle cells, and they like mostly carbs with a little protein. A little protein never hurt anybody ;)

The first two hours after heavy exercise is the best time to replenish glycogen stores. The muscle cells are ravenous as well as thirsty, if you have worked out hard.

The first meal following exercise should be primarily carbohydrates, especially the high G-I variety. Eat a baked potato or rice with rolls and some grapes, for example instead of a fatty burger and fries. Also, if you want a sugar fix, a soda or candy bar, this is the time to have it. All that sugar will be gobbled up by your muscle cells.

Drinking fruit juice, a soda, or even a special recovery drink after exercise will replace needed water and carbs.

If you are into bodybuilding, or just working out to stay healthy, eating carbs immediately within 30 minutes after exercise is critical to maximizing and maintaining your glycogen stores.
This is know as carbohydrate recovery

Eat or drink 100 grams CHO within 30 minutes post-workout.

Then continue to eat high-carbohydrate meals throught out day.

Current research shows that adding a little protein, even 5 to 10 grams, to your recovery meal enhances the rate of glycogen replacement and aids muscle growth.


Here is a recipe for a delicious recovery smoothie:

1 cup apple juice
1 banana
1 cup fresh or frozen blueberries, unsweetened
8 ounces fat-free vanilla yogurt

Mix all ingredients together in a blender. Add 4 ice cubes if using fresh berries instead of frozen. Blend until smooth. Provides 111 grams CHO and 13 grams protein (13,000 aminos!)

unev_en
02-25-2002, 12:03 PM
Bolding does not a compelling argument make...

Also, not to flame, but I would like to see you defend the above article in your own words, with particular attention paid to a justification of the following statements:

1)
The first meal following exercise should be primarily carbohydrates
***If you fail to see the problem with this statement...

2)
continue to eat high-carbohydrate meals throught out day.
***This statement is predicated entirely upon the desirability of carbohydrate, the same dietary principle which forms the foundation of the FDA and AMA recommended 65-70% carbohydrate diet, a stance which is sorely lacking in protein and healthful fats. Justify this.

3)
Provides 111 grams CHO and 13 grams protein (13,000 aminos!)
***Explain the choice of such a fructose-laded concoction; in other words, why is fructose preferable to much faster digesting carbohydrates like detrose? Furthermore, justify the meager portion of slow-digesting protein.

Please, I am interested to hear your responses.

Maki Riddington
02-25-2002, 12:28 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TripleP
[

Then continue to eat high-carbohydrate meals throught out day.

*** Is this based upon research yo've read? If so it was most likely geared towards endurance athletes and not stretngth trainers.


Here is a recipe for a delicious recovery smoothie:

1 cup apple juice
1 banana
1 cup fresh or frozen blueberries, unsweetened
8 ounces fat-free vanilla yogurt

Mix all ingredients together in a blender. Add 4 ice cubes if using fresh berries instead of frozen. Blend until smooth. Provides 111 grams CHO and 13 grams protein

*** Fructose does not do a good job at replenishing muscle glycogen. So this would not be a good recovery shake to use.

hemants
02-25-2002, 02:56 PM
From what I've read, it takes about 600-700g of carbs to replenish muscle glycogen.

If that is true, 50-100g post workout will give you a good start but that's about it.

Why then take high GI carbs post workout? Endurance atheletes do it for the purpose of supercompensation (ie. 2 or 3 days before a meet, they exhaust their stores, fill em again, and hope that they end up with more glycogen for the race).

To it seems the motivation for malto/dextro post workout is to create an insulin spike to help absorb protein.

Can someone explain?

TFXP-Zeke01
02-25-2002, 06:10 PM
What about if you're on a low carb diet? Would you still want to have around 100 grams of carbs post-workout? Or would it not affect the low carb diet and all the carbs be used up at once?

I'm still learning........;)

Maki Riddington
02-25-2002, 06:42 PM
Originally posted by hemants
From what I've read, it takes about 600-700g of carbs to replenish muscle glycogen.

If that is true, 50-100g post workout will give you a good start but that's about it.

Why then take high GI carbs post workout? Endurance atheletes do it for the purpose of supercompensation (ie. 2 or 3 days before a meet, they exhaust their stores, fill em again, and hope that they end up with more glycogen for the race).

To it seems the motivation for malto/dextro post workout is to create an insulin spike to help absorb protein.

Can someone explain?


*** Humans will never reach a point where glycogen levels are totally saturated. So it would depend on the intensity, duration and what your levels where like before the exercise took place.

Generally speaking, postworkout is a time when insulin levels are sensitive. So sending a stream of readily and easily digested carbs will spike insulin level s which in turn drive the glucose into the muscles quickly which allows for more effcient glycogen synthesis as well as protein synthesis.

The_Chicken_Daddy
02-26-2002, 05:59 AM
"Humans will never reach a point where glycogen levels are totally saturated"


Do you mean totally empty?

Cackerot69
02-26-2002, 06:20 AM
lmao at TripleP with the bolding.

Maki Riddington
02-26-2002, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by The_Chicken_Daddy
"Humans will never reach a point where glycogen levels are totally saturated"


Do you mean totally empty?

*** Lol , yes that's what I meant to say.
Sorry.:(

The_Chicken_Daddy
02-26-2002, 05:27 PM
lol np. :)

btw, they can reach a point of total glycogen depletion, only they won't be breathing to realise it :D

I'm smiling about death. What a sick bastard. Hey, Just like Elpietro now!

Mission accomplished :D

tony touch
02-26-2002, 07:03 PM
grape juice mixed with berry blast met-rxx is perfect postworkout and throw some creatine and glutamine in there and ur set.

1 hour later, have a meal like steak, beans and salad or chicken and salad. dont mix carbs and fat together in ur meal tho

unev_en
02-27-2002, 07:21 AM
1 hour later, have a meal like steak, beans and salad or chicken and salad. dont mix carbs and fat together in ur meal tho

Prove this.

syntekz
02-27-2002, 08:18 AM
Prove this?

Hrmm...

I'd say have another meal about an hour and a half later with a fair amount of protein and carbs...

Qea
02-27-2002, 10:24 AM
the only time u dont want fat in your meals is in the post-workout drink cuz it slows down the digestion (or is it absorbtion??) of the carbs and protein

unev_en
02-27-2002, 12:04 PM
the only time u dont want fat in your meals is in the post-workout drink cuz it slows down the digestion (or is it absorbtion??) of the carbs and protein

I wholeheartedly agree. I merely wanted tony to justify his argument.

Slim Schaedle
02-28-2002, 08:06 AM
1 hour later, have a meal like steak, beans and salad or chicken and salad. dont mix carbs and fat together in ur meal tho
I'm wondering about this no carb/fat thing too.

unev_en
02-28-2002, 08:32 AM
I've heard the specious justification for it, and, personally, think it's bunk.

Slim Schaedle
02-28-2002, 08:37 AM
Well, it would take some mighty convincing to get me to stop eating my rice and meat 2 hours after i work out...rice has carbs, and meat has fat.....

tony touch
02-28-2002, 09:55 AM
ok first of all, i have no scientific basis to prove my point but testosterone.net might, if that means anything to u guys because thats where i first learned of this. well since i started doing this, i have lost bodyfat off my body and have become more muscular. when eating carbs, i keep fat to 10 grams or less. hey it works but if u guys think its bunk, then do whatever ur doing that works.

Cackerot69
02-28-2002, 10:21 AM
The idea is to take advantage of insulin being an anabolic hormone and to avoid the fact that it's a fat storing hormone as well. Like, insulin shuttles nutrients into muscles, but also into fat. By eating only protein and carbs in one meal you will bring glucose and amino's into muscle and due to not eating any fat there is just no fat to be stored. You'd eat your carb/pro meal post workout, I always do 25% of my carbs for the day post workout (usually split into 2 meals, a liquid one right after then a solid one an hour or so after that). You also avoid becoming insulin resistant that can happen on a high carb diet cuz of your pro/fat meals...insulin isn;t high all day long, only when you need it to be.

The pro/fat meals are so you can get your fat in, without gaining fat. You need fat for hormone production, fat oxidation (cuz it raises glucagon) and all that cool stuff, but when you eat fat and have high insulin that fat goes to your ass. So you separate them. Fat/pro meals raise glucagon which turns fat burning on, prevents carb spill-over, provides EFA's without insulin sending them to your ass, preserves already stored glycogen which is ace when gaining, and you still get aminos into your muscles from the protein.

Basically pro/carb meals are your muscle building meals, and pro/fat meals are your fat burining meals. This does work, I use it everytime I'm trying to gain. It keeps muscle gaining to a max, at fat gaining to a minumum....whats acer than that? Tis what we're all trying to do when bulking. I suggest you try it. You'll still gain some fat of course just cuz you're eating more kcalories then you burn....but it will be much less than a traditional gaining diet.

Marcel
02-28-2002, 10:32 AM
Cack - smart

I don't see why you would want to eat all 3 micronutrients in one meal and then get indigestion which many of you do get with thos nasty a$$ protein farts.:evillaugh

unev_en
02-28-2002, 11:21 AM
I understand the theory behind the practice of macronutrient separation, yet I personally believe that, at best, its practical effects are minimal. In terms of fat/muscle gain/loss, the vastly more-important equation is calories in vs. calories out.

Furthermore, protein consumed in the absence of carbohydrate is, as far I as have been educated, utilized less effectively than protein consumed with carbohydrate. Therefore, the protein consumed in protein/fat moved is, at least to some degree, wasted; and so I prefer to include carbohydrate with all of my meals.

Cackerot69
02-28-2002, 11:31 AM
The practical effects actually turn out to be pretty significant...a noticeable difference in muscle:fat gain ratio...IME and others as well. Calories are the main factor, yeah....but to think that that is all there is to it is being a little too simple minded.

The protein/fat meals are not neccessarily meant to build muscle, they are your fat burning meals. All protein you eat will be utilized in some fashion, nothing is wasted, insulin just "help" the protein into muscle cells. That's what the pro/carb meals are for. This fat/carb separation thing probably won't make you gain the absolute maximum of muscle possible, but the intent is to keep fat gain to a minimum and muscle gain to a relative maximum. And it does just that.

unev_en
02-28-2002, 01:28 PM
To some degree, my experience has been significantly different. I've always had an extremely low bf%, and have never practiced, at least to any measurable degree, such food separation. Now, I realize that this does not, in any way, invalidate the practice, nor does it mean that I would not be leaner if I were in fact to eat in such a manner, but it does provide some supporting evidence for my position.

That said, my last meal is protein/fat :).

BTW, I'm about to increase my daily caloric intake by roughly 200, and so I'm a bit curious as to where to include the extra carbs (200 cals = 25 c, 12.5 p, and 4.5) Should I increase my post-workout meal to 75 c and 37.5 protein? Or should I add the carbs to my last meal for some overnight insulin-based anabolism :) Any opinions? Goals = fairly lean mass gain, age 18, male, journal can be found here

bulking...unevenly (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=142616#post142616)

tony touch
02-28-2002, 03:55 PM
cack, thats exactly what im sayin dog. this diet is the **** and it works. give it a try if u want some results.

by the way, what cack said is exactly wut test.net said.

i believe testosteronme.net's diet is called massive eating plan

Maki Riddington
02-28-2002, 07:14 PM
John something rather from the site pushes this concept.
So far it's been working for me.

Cackerot69
02-28-2002, 10:39 PM
I'd just throw it in where-ever I felt like it....not big enough a deal to worry about. Maybe in one of your smaller meals.

357 magnums
03-01-2002, 03:30 PM
i would recommend using only water to mix your protein in a post workout shakes. it will digest a lot eisier and thus you will get the protein when you need it most. take dextrose only if you use creatine. i would use a creatine product with the creapure logo on it this insures a quality product germany creatine guaranteed to be filtered properly. prolab,ultimate nutrition,eas is good met rx or cell tech, these are good products from exp. also it is good to add alpha lipoic acid to your creatine if in pill form take about 15 min before you drink your creatine, this will help your body take in the creatine. add some carbs as well ,i like grapefruit juice. also it is good to add at least 5g-10g of glutamine to your protein it will help w/ recovery. i suggest eaing a clean balanced meal 1-1 1/2 hour after your post w-out shake.
my tip for training today- after a good super set for a particular muscle lightly strech and flex your muscle for 30 seconds then immidiatly hit the next set this will create a huge blood pump and increase vascularity. bowoooop!

unev_en
03-01-2002, 07:38 PM
i would recommend using only water to mix your protein in a post workout shakes. it will digest a lot eisier and thus you will get the protein when you need it most. take dextrose only if you use creatine

Really? Protein without the carbohydrates necessary to facilitate its cellular uptake? That is, quite frankly, ridiculous and entirely contrary to the point of a post-workout shake.

The_Chicken_Daddy
03-02-2002, 03:46 AM
lmao!


Go unev_en, go unev_en...

357 magnums
03-02-2002, 06:55 AM
add some carbs as well ,i like grapefruit juice.

hello.. i add card usually 40-70g read my post duh!!!
this is to uneven. <probly how your physique is!!

it is best for protein powder after a workout with water not milk!!!@!!! thats my point.

unev_en
03-02-2002, 08:31 AM
it is best for protein powder after a workout with water not milk!!!@!!! thats my point.

Yes, water is preferable to milk for the purposes of a post-workout shake; however, in terms of carbohydrate intake, there are much better choices than grapefruit juice. Fruit juices comprise primarily fructose, which preferentially replenishes liver glycogen stores. In the catabolic, post-workout state, carbohydrate sources which replenish muscle gylcogen are inherent more desirable. This is why a mix of dextrose/maltodextrin is preferred; and I do note that, in your post, you stated that "take dextrose only if you use creatine."

Your comments regarding my name were entirely without justification; I merely disagreed with your point, which was no reason for vituperative, ad hominem attacks. Besides, if my name referred to my physique, I'd be called "hulking_greek_god." Jk. I'd weigh 180, curl 225, bench 315, deadlift 500, squat 600 lbs, and have 4.5% bf. Hey, this is the internet, right? Yep, for strength, the net's better than any freaking cycle :)

Slim Schaedle
03-02-2002, 09:55 AM
...But are you a hulking grek god that can get women? :)...nevermind, j/k

unev_en
03-02-2002, 11:39 AM
:)

It's more like: Women? What are these strange things of which you speak?

The_Chicken_Daddy
03-02-2002, 05:24 PM
Do you mean grape juice and not grapefruit juice?