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MonsterMash
04-09-2007, 12:47 AM
The Reason Why Strength and Conditioning Moves So Slowly

Friday, I was invited to give a talk and take part in a Q&A at Appalachian State University with their Exercise Science Graduate Department. The whole thing was pretty awesome, and the main topic was endurance training and if it has a place for power athletes. Basically as we all know, running for distance is not optimal for power. The main reasons are: 1. the neurological response, 2. endocrine considerations, 3. and the inevitability of overtraining. The neurological response issues lie with training Type II Fibers especially IIA to mimic type I Fibers or the slow twitch fibers. The endocrine response refers to the lowering of testosterone levels, which is a big no no. Last, the increased release of cortisol from distance training will inevitably cause overtraining.

We did discuss that the benefits from distance training are: increase glucose, improved body composition, and overall general physical preparedness, but we presented how this could be attained more efficiently through sled work, sprints, or interval training depending on the sport. Obviously the more the sport relies on the anaerobic lactate system (basketball, soccer, or rugby), then the more interval type training they need to improve speed endurance, and overall general physical condition. Everything went great, but the end was really interesting.

One of the strength coaches for Appalachian State U., and who is an ex-assistant to Gayle Hatch, the great Olympic Lifting Coach started questioning powerlifting versus Olympic lifting. He was told by Coach Hatch to represent Olympic lifting during my class. He started talking about how Olympic lifting is superior, and brought up a seminar at Wake Forrest that happened over two years ago, where Louie Simmons and some of his athletes got into a pretty high tempered discussion with another Olympic Coach. Somehow they were including me in on that argument, but I went on to explain how I was friends with Gayle Hatch, and that I appreciate both sports. I just think that there arenít enough coaches that can teach the lifts correctly, and there isnít enough time allotted to teach the lifts properly. He kind of started in on my again, so I explained that I am competing in Olympic lifting now. Then he shifted his argument that I would have a hard time making the transition. I then informed him that I had actually trained at the Olympic Training Center, and that my first coach was actually Wes Barnett the three time Olympian. I went on to say that to many people make assumptions without gathering their facts, which didnít go over to well, but the class seemed to enjoy it.

The biggest point that Iím trying to make is that people are more concerned with proving their theories right, then they are with learning new ideas. Coaches are scared to death that someone might know something better than them. They would rather criticize and discredit as opposed to checking in to see if there is any validity. I love both sports. I am trying to apply Westside Principles to Olympic, and I am having awesome results, so far. Most people are getting really curious, but some just want to discredit. I canít wait till the American Open in December, where I will be able to put all of this to bed!

For Strength and Conditioning to take its next step in evolution, both sides will need to set down and compare notes. Both sides have great applications, and both have their downfalls. We can only hope for such a day!

Clifford Gillmore
04-09-2007, 05:43 AM
Sounds like it would of been a fun seminar to be at Travis! Did anyone record it at all?

MonsterMash
04-09-2007, 10:15 AM
I'll check to see. I hope so. It got pretty heated, so it would be funny, if nothing else.

Chubrock
04-09-2007, 10:34 AM
Should've ripped off somebody's head.

Isaac Wilkins
04-09-2007, 12:14 PM
I'd like to see it as well, Travis.

I had an interesting experience during an internship I participated in during my grad degree. The assistant strength coach that I worked under was a former world level powerlifter, USAPL and then IPF, I believe.

Anyway, they had been very successful and owed their success and popularity to powerlifting and the sponsorships they'd earned.

I came into the internship to keep my mouth shut and learn some stuff, which was what I did. The assistant coach kept giving me little "assignments" like designing a program for an athlete with various considerations, etc. Then we'd talk about what I came up with, and so on. This was a good thing. However, it quickly came out that they were soured on powerlifting because of the drugs and equipment. They also had a SEVERE hate on for Louie and the Westside/Darkside phenomenon.

The Westside-type training had really started to take off for athletes by then (working into the Darkside revolution that the EliteFTS group is bringing about). This coach refused to watch the Westside videos. They literally didn't know anything about the protocol because they absolutely refused to watch it or listen to anything about it. They didn't spend any time reading or improving their knowledge. Once they finished their Master's they stopped reading because "I don't believe in studies and all that science stuff. People put too much emphasis in it". <- Quote.

This coach was only ~31 years old and still an assistant. It's not like they were 60 and had been doing this for 30+ years.

I asked my advisor (a former head S&C coach) about it and he wasn't surprised. He'd dealt with that coach before and had similar interactions from his students. He said that if someone sounded like they were aggressive and they knew what they were doing the coach would feel threatened and try to squash them out.

I don't understand why coaches feel the need to subscribe to one camp or the other. Look at what the weak point is in the athlete, and then come up with the best means by which to improve the qualities necessary. Olympic lifts build great triple extension, grip, and monster upper backs. Certain powerlifting applications can do the same thing. Olympic protocols of loading, tempo, and periodization are applicable to other things, just as are some of the power protocols. Olympic lifts are very complicated to teach. Some powerlifting accessory lifts are SPP for powerlifting and don't have much to do with athletics.

Find the best means. Who cares where it came from?

chris mason
04-09-2007, 12:33 PM
The Reason Why Strength and Conditioning Moves So Slowly

Friday, I was invited to give a talk and take part in a Q&A at Appalachian State University with their Exercise Science Graduate Department. The whole thing was pretty awesome, and the main topic was endurance training and if it has a place for power athletes. Basically as we all know, running for distance is not optimal for power. The main reasons are: 1. the neurological response, 2. endocrine considerations, 3. and the inevitability of overtraining. The neurological response issues lie with training Type II Fibers especially IIA to mimic type I Fibers or the slow twitch fibers. The endocrine response refers to the lowering of testosterone levels, which is a big no no. Last, the increased release of cortisol from distance training will inevitably cause overtraining.

We did discuss that the benefits from distance training are: increase glucose, improved body composition, and overall general physical preparedness, but we presented how this could be attained more efficiently through sled work, sprints, or interval training depending on the sport. Obviously the more the sport relies on the anaerobic lactate system (basketball, soccer, or rugby), then the more interval type training they need to improve speed endurance, and overall general physical condition. Everything went great, but the end was really interesting.

One of the strength coaches for Appalachian State U., and who is an ex-assistant to Gayle Hatch, the great Olympic Lifting Coach started questioning powerlifting versus Olympic lifting. He was told by Coach Hatch to represent Olympic lifting during my class. He started talking about how Olympic lifting is superior, and brought up a seminar at Wake Forrest that happened over two years ago, where Louie Simmons and some of his athletes got into a pretty high tempered discussion with another Olympic Coach. Somehow they were including me in on that argument, but I went on to explain how I was friends with Gayle Hatch, and that I appreciate both sports. I just think that there arenít enough coaches that can teach the lifts correctly, and there isnít enough time allotted to teach the lifts properly. He kind of started in on my again, so I explained that I am competing in Olympic lifting now. Then he shifted his argument that I would have a hard time making the transition. I then informed him that I had actually trained at the Olympic Training Center, and that my first coach was actually Wes Barnett the three time Olympian. I went on to say that to many people make assumptions without gathering their facts, which didnít go over to well, but the class seemed to enjoy it.

The biggest point that Iím trying to make is that people are more concerned with proving their theories right, then they are with learning new ideas. Coaches are scared to death that someone might know something better than them. They would rather criticize and discredit as opposed to checking in to see if there is any validity. I love both sports. I am trying to apply Westside Principles to Olympic, and I am having awesome results, so far. Most people are getting really curious, but some just want to discredit. I canít wait till the American Open in December, where I will be able to put all of this to bed!

For Strength and Conditioning to take its next step in evolution, both sides will need to set down and compare notes. Both sides have great applications, and both have their downfalls. We can only hope for such a day!


Travis, your thoughts are exactly correct in that so many people only want to perpetuate their own agenda. That is natural, as they are trying to protect their living in many cases.

I do wish more people were open to new ideas although I can undertsand not being so as I was once like that.

Chris

Isaac Wilkins
04-09-2007, 01:16 PM
Travis, your thoughts are exactly correct in that so many people only want to perpetuate their own agenda. That is natural, as they are trying to protect their living in many cases.

I do wish more people were open to new ideas although I can undertsand not being so as I was once like that.

Chris

Chris, I want to say that (as you know) a long-time criticism of you has been your dogmatic approach to ideas, but I've seen you come a long way. You have really become very open-minded to training and it's been really impressive.

Sensei
04-09-2007, 03:39 PM
I remember reading about that original debate at Wake Forest... Was there a write up at t-mag or elitefts or somewhere? I'd do a search, but I am waaaay too lazy for that.

chris mason
04-09-2007, 09:17 PM
Chris, I want to say that (as you know) a long-time criticism of you has been your dogmatic approach to ideas, but I've seen you come a long way. You have really become very open-minded to training and it's been really impressive.


Thank you. I admit to having been a bit stubborn in the past...:hello:

MonsterMash
04-09-2007, 11:29 PM
Chris-

To me, if I want to protect my living, then I would drownd myself in new ideas, so that no one on the planet would know more then me. This thing we call Strength and Conditioning evolves almost daily, so if you shut down for one second, then you will get left behind. Embrace new ideas, try them out, and apply if it makes sense. Always look for better and new ways! It doesn't mean that what you are doing doesn't work. It just means that there might be something slightly better.

Maki Riddington
04-09-2007, 11:35 PM
Well spoken.

bill
04-10-2007, 08:08 AM
Travis excellent write up. It only makes sense to take the prinicples you know work and try to add bits to it for optimal results. Many times I think (I) for one over shoot that mark and try to modify too much. lol

chris mason
04-10-2007, 10:08 AM
Chris-

To me, if I want to protect my living, then I would drownd myself in new ideas, so that no one on the planet would know more then me. This thing we call Strength and Conditioning evolves almost daily, so if you shut down for one second, then you will get left behind. Embrace new ideas, try them out, and apply if it makes sense. Always look for better and new ways! It doesn't mean that what you are doing doesn't work. It just means that there might be something slightly better.

Yep, I agree. Westside has certainly changed the way I think as has working with the various lifters we sponsor.

Chris