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samj
04-12-2007, 11:53 AM
does anybody else do this?
when i do squats i seem to sort of pull down with my arms putting more weight on it and i cant help it:mad:
could anybody help?

JHarris
04-12-2007, 02:17 PM
does anybody else do this?
when i do squats i seem to sort of pull down with my arms putting more weight on it and i cant help it:mad:
could anybody help?

You can't actually put more weight on the bar by pulling down on it. I suppose its possible that you can produce a bit more spinal loading this way, but you aren't actually making your legs work harder by pulling down. I also bet that the extra spinal loading would be very little and probably shouldn't affect your lift that much.

If you are really worried about it, though, my guess is that you are lacking a little flexibility in your shoulders and this is what is causing you to pull at the bar. Its a little hard for me to be sure not seeing pictures or video, however. You could try squatting with fewer fingers on the bar to see if this is the problem.

Jay

noahfor123
04-12-2007, 03:07 PM
When you pull down on the bar, it's like doing a pull-up, so there are forces lifting you up to cancel out the ones pushing you down.

RedSpikeyThing
04-12-2007, 03:13 PM
You can't actually put more weight on the bar by pulling down on it. I suppose its possible that you can produce a bit more spinal loading this way, but you aren't actually making your legs work harder by pulling down. I also bet that the extra spinal loading would be very little and probably shouldn't affect your lift that much.


I believe this is incorrect. If you agree that pulling down would "produce a bit more spinal loading", then what force would counteract this to make the bar go up? The force from your legs.
And not make a big difference? Let's say you way 200 lbs and you're doing the equivelent of a full chinup (exageration, of course), then thats 200 lbs more you could be squatting.

Chris Rodgers
04-12-2007, 03:39 PM
Umm, no.

Next time try and press up like a shoulder press and see if the weight is lighter, lol.


Seriously, I was just kidding. Don't do that and mess yourself up.

JHarris
04-12-2007, 03:54 PM
I believe this is incorrect. If you agree that pulling down would "produce a bit more spinal loading", then what force would counteract this to make the bar go up? The force from your legs.
And not make a big difference? Let's say you way 200 lbs and you're doing the equivelent of a full chinup (exageration, of course), then thats 200 lbs more you could be squatting.

The mechanics of the problem are a little trickier that that. Just because you get more spinal loading does not mean you 'weigh more'. What's happening is that you are squeezing together your spine a little by contracting your latissimus dorsi which is what is bringing your arms down. (A bit of a simplification, but lets go with it.) since your latissimus dorsi connects around the lower portions of your spine and you are pulling the bar against your shoulders, your spine might arch a bit more (though again, I bet it is very insignificant and probably could be controlled by properly strong spinal erectors/abdominal muscles), but that doesnt mean your legs feel the weight. Because your back arches a bit more, your chest puffs out and the forces are balanced.

Basically, if you have a closed system (i.e. the bar and you combined under gravity) you can't add more energy to the system. If you were pulling down on the bar and somehow achieving more weight on your legs, you'd be contradicting this law of physics. Imagine you are stationary and the bar is resting on your shoulders. All of your energy is potential energy, defined as mass x gravity x height. Now, by pulling down on the bar but not moving, all your energy is still potential. But if your legs had to 'move more mass', the mass for the second potential would be higher and thus you would have added energy to a closed system.

On the other hand, as a side note, it turns out that you can make a pullup easier by swinging your legs up in the middle of it, but thats a different story.

I hope that helps explain it.

Jay

RedSpikeyThing
04-12-2007, 04:24 PM
Umm, no.

Next time try and press up like a shoulder press and see if the weight is lighter, lol.




Jay's explanation

Ugh. It's been a long day of studying. My bad.

JHarris
04-12-2007, 04:47 PM
Ugh. It's been a long day of studying. My bad.

Hey man, no worries. Its an easy mistake to make.

Sensei
04-12-2007, 05:37 PM
You should be trying to "pull" your elbows forward as you squat, not downward. Pulling your elbows forward should help you maintain proper upper body positioning.