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Scorpion32
05-11-2007, 11:15 AM
I was on another site dealing with sports specific(football). The question was asked why the power clean isn't used in very many programs at any level any more? It is a great lift and I can't even think of why I don't use it in my offseason, other then I don't see anybody else use it. We do high pulls and hang clean but not power. Just wanted to pick peoples brains on this topic.

Scorpion32
05-11-2007, 12:12 PM
To Clean Or Not To Clean,
That Is The Question?
Bill Hrabak
Head Football Coach
Cardinal Stritch High School-Oregon, Ohio

In 1984, when I was an assistant football coach in Cleveland, a friend of mine, Gary Wroblewski, was named the strength coach at Columbia University. While Wroblewski was at Columbia, who would two years later become the strength coach for the Cleveland Browns, he had the opportunity to travel to the then U.S.S.R. and study the Soviets strength and conditioning programs. When Wrobo’s return he told me how he had expected to see all of these new, modern, high tech training techniques but rather he came back with that an old and sometimes avoided(by U.S. athletes) exercise, power cleans, as the main dish on the soviet training menu. Wrobo said that Soviet trainers insisted that "if the soviet athletes could perform only one exercise, it would be power cleans."

When I had became a head football coach in 1987, I utilized a conglomeration of training ideas from the hundreds of different programs that I had come in contact with over the years, to start my schools weight program. However, despite what Wrobo had told me about power cleans years prior, they were still not a high priority for my athletes. That was until the spring of 1997 when I attended a BFS strength clinic at Maumee High School. Wrobolewski’s speech about power cleans from 13 years before was reiterated by BFS speaker and director Dr. Greg Sheppard. Dr. Sheppard praised cleans as the most sports effective, multi jointed lift that an athlete could do to help enhance his performance. Dr. Sheppard referred to the safety fears many coaches have about doing power cleans as part of their core program, relates to lack of supervision while athletes lift and a lack of knowledge on how to teach proper cleaning form. After watching Dr. Sheppard in action during the rest of the clinic, I returned to my school promising myself, not only will cleans be part of our weight training program, they will become the most important part of our program.

In the off season, we do power cleans on Mondays & Thursdays. We also tell our athletes that if their short on work out time, they will always do cleans first, because they are our most important lift. Here’s a look at our 4 week reps and sets cycle looks like:

Week 1

3 sets, 5-3-1 reps, light weight for form.

Week 2

3 sets, 3-3-3 reps, 75% of max

Week 3

3 sets, 4-4-2 reps, 70% of max

Week 4

5 sets, 1-1-1-1-1, 85-90%

Some power clean rules we adhere to are:

1) We rarely max out on cleans maybe twice a year maximum.

2) We always wear lifting belts whether we are the lifter or spotter.

3) We allow our lifters to use wrist straps if they have trouble with grip.

4) We never do more than 5 reps in a set.

5) Our lifters may do full range cleans or hang cleans.

During our in season program, the backs & receivers clean on Mondays & Wednesdays and our linemen on Tuesdays & Thursdays. Our sets and reps are always 3 sets of 3 reps at 65% of their max. The third time of the week that we do our cleans workout is before games as part of our pre game warm-ups.

Dr. Sheppard talked about Karl Malone, as well as many high school, college and pro teams, using light cleans & squats before each game because of the multi joint ramifications of the exercise. We also have adopted this philosophy at Stritch and we have our players do 3 sets of 3 reps at either 105lbs, 135 lbs or 185 lbs immediately before we go onto the game field for warm-ups. Since we've started doing our pre game clean exercises two seasons ago our record is 18 - 4, and I believe that this part of our weight program is a main reason for our teams dramatic turn around.

If you have further questions about cleans or other aspects of our weight program, feel free to contact me at Cardinal Stritch High School.

419-693-0465
whrabak@cardinalstritch.com

Wiggy
05-16-2007, 03:10 PM
Dr. Sheppard referred to the safety fears many coaches have about doing power cleans as part of their core program, relates to lack of supervision while athletes lift and a lack of knowledge on how to teach proper cleaning form.

SOOOOOO TRUE.

The article is pretty good - I disagree with a couple points, but overall it's a winner.

Wiggy

schmitty199
05-16-2007, 07:00 PM
I was on another site dealing with sports specific(football). The question was asked why the power clean isn't used in very many programs at any level any more? It is a great lift and I can't even think of why I don't use it in my offseason, other then I don't see anybody else use it. We do high pulls and hang clean but not power. Just wanted to pick peoples brains on this topic.

It isnt?

All the NFL teams do it.

Bako Lifter
05-16-2007, 07:06 PM
And pretty much all high schools. At least in my area.

schmitty199
05-16-2007, 09:11 PM
And pretty much all high schools. At least in my area.

Yep same here.

Talking_God
05-16-2007, 09:13 PM
All of our team members use it as well.

jed
05-17-2007, 09:01 PM
I love Power Clean. Some of my team mates use it, and it helps.

Sensei
05-17-2007, 09:10 PM
I think some teams might be moving away from power cleans to the hang clean just because most kids' form off the floor is atrocious and they might have a chance in hell of actually achieving full three-point extension if they start from the hang position. Just a guess.

SFTS
05-17-2007, 09:44 PM
power and Hang cleans are the scourge of man. Im so glad once I stop playing I never hafto do those excersises ever agian...ever

Bob
05-18-2007, 07:47 AM
power and Hang cleans are the scourge of man. Im so glad once I stop playing I never hafto do those excersises ever agian...ever
Yeah.. why would you ever want to be a strong, functional, athletic person as you get older??? :eek:

Scorpion32
05-18-2007, 08:17 AM
As a coach your time is limited and you have to pick your exercises that are going to best benifit your athlete for the time invested. it takes a lot of time to teach a young athlete how to do a power clean with good form. I work as a trainer at a local gym and I see many young guys from area high school doing power cleans wrong. When I try to help they say this is how our coach tells us to do it. I also worked at two different colleges as a strength intern and assistant strength coach and no power cleans in either place I guess that is one reason I do not use it in my strength program ath the school I currently work fore
At the college level they are very limited by ncaa in the ammount of time you can have withyour players. Is it worth spending the time to teach such a complex lift or something that isn't as complex?

Sensei
05-18-2007, 04:21 PM
We had a similar 'discussion' here: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=73572

IMHO, limited time in the weight room is a really bad reason not to include cleans in a training program... I don't think cleans are indispensible necessarily, but it is a great, great exercise and you'd be wrong to think that doing high pulls and deadlifting is even close to the same thing as cleaning.

TommyBoy
05-18-2007, 04:37 PM
It takes a lot of time to teach a young athlete how to do a power clean with good form.
No kidding....I can pull a 600 deadlift, but I can't even clean 135 with good form. When I do it, it's like an explosive deadlift with a big reverse power curl. I'm really trying to learn the lift, but dammit, it's a bloody hard lift. Anyone have any tips for someone like me?

Sensei
05-18-2007, 05:10 PM
It's not that hard but, just like anything, it helps to have good instruction and meaningful, quality practice. There are good books on OLs and quite a few decent online vids for free. I've posted some before and a lot of other people have too - I'll try to find and repost some of them.

TommyBoy
05-18-2007, 06:09 PM
Awesome Sensei, thanks a lot.

Sensei
05-18-2007, 08:06 PM
Dan John Video on Squats and OLs (got the link from PowerManDL): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6529481301858251744&q=olympic+squat&hl=en

OL Instruction (can't remember who posted this originally - the link may not work anymore - the youtube links are the same thing though): http://www.infinityfitness.com/videos/nl/chado2.asf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2ZV4gE0eUE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHB1r5Lo5iU&mode=related&search=

Another one that I found with a quick youtube check (I haven't really watched it, but it looked promising):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LSNKX0yUSQ

TommyBoy
05-19-2007, 07:40 PM
Awesome stuff Sensei, very helpful. I appreciate it.

ericg
05-22-2007, 09:35 AM
Dan John Video on Squats and OLs (got the link from PowerManDL): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6529481301858251744&q=olympic+squat&hl=en

OL Instruction (can't remember who posted this originally - the link may not work anymore - the youtube links are the same thing though): http://www.infinityfitness.com/videos/nl/chado2.asf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2ZV4gE0eUE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHB1r5Lo5iU&mode=related&search=

Another one that I found with a quick youtube check (I haven't really watched it, but it looked promising):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LSNKX0yUSQ

I spent MANY hours searching google and youtube vids for that first link. Thanks a ton Sensei

WVtackle72
06-18-2007, 07:37 PM
I was on another site dealing with sports specific(football). The question was asked why the power clean isn't used in very many programs at any level any more? It is a great lift and I can't even think of why I don't use it in my offseason, other then I don't see anybody else use it. We do high pulls and hang clean but not power. Just wanted to pick peoples brains on this topic.

hang cleans are better on your back then power cleans

schmitty199
06-19-2007, 06:31 PM
hang cleans are better on your back then power cleans

If necessary use a belt to keep your back straight. If done even close to right cleans shouldnt hurt your back.

JHarris
06-23-2007, 12:03 AM
If necessary use a belt to keep your back straight. If done even close to right cleans shouldnt hurt your back.

Hang cleans are not better on your back than powercleans. First off.. a power clean could be done from the hang. The term power only refers to catching the weight above parallel. I assume you are referring to starting the weight from the floor; this will actually help to strengthen your back so long as you do it with good form.

As for using a belt.. a belt won't keep your back straight. It may add some abdominal pressure we could help to stabilize your spine, but you are better off in olympic lifting not using one when you are trying to learn the lifts. Chances are, your clean is way behind your actual strength anyway, so you probably wouldnt come close to it actually being helpful to your lifts.

Andre3000
06-26-2007, 07:35 PM
Above parallel? Sorry if i'm being blunt, but parallel to what? i always thought hang meant from a hang position and power was from the ground.

Sensei
06-26-2007, 09:02 PM
JHarris is right. A powerclean's a powerclean (as opposed to a 'clean' or 'full clean') because you only do a quarter squat to catch the weight. A powerclean usually implies that it's from the ground, but you can do it from a hang.

CrazyK
06-27-2007, 12:28 AM
It isnt?

All the NFL teams do it.That's actually not true. Half of the league does not even do free weight squats.

JHarris
06-27-2007, 10:33 AM
Above parallel? Sorry if i'm being blunt, but parallel to what? i always thought hang meant from a hang position and power was from the ground.

No, its okay. If you dont know what I mean, I'm glad you asked. A lot of people misuse these terms so it can get very confusing. When I refer to parallel in terms of Olympic lifting, I am referring to the top of your thigh being parallel with the ground. This is, amongst many Oly lifters, considered to be a half squat. A full squat would be going down to where your hamstrings are lying on your calves as much as possible for your body.

As Sensei pointed out, power refers only to receiving the weight on your shoulders in a squat above parallel, or most commonly in a quartersquat position. If you start the motion from the hang position, then it is a hang clean. (There are also multiple hang positions to start from, such as high hang or the power position, a low hang above the knees or a low hang beneath the knees). If you start from the ground, then you are either doing a clean or a powerclean, depending how high you receive the weight.

I hope that clears things up.

manowar669
06-27-2007, 11:33 AM
Great videos with instruction here (http://www.crossfit.com/cf-info/excercise.html), also some vids of seminars with Rippetoe (in the powerlifting section). All around great site for lots of lifts and exercises (some vids by hot chicks too:thumbup: ).

markdk86
06-27-2007, 12:14 PM
I love hang cleans from above the knee. I never felt comfortable doing a plain clean from the floor but damn, they rock.

Andre3000
06-27-2007, 04:36 PM
No, its okay. If you dont know what I mean, I'm glad you asked. A lot of people misuse these terms so it can get very confusing. When I refer to parallel in terms of Olympic lifting, I am referring to the top of your thigh being parallel with the ground. This is, amongst many Oly lifters, considered to be a half squat. A full squat would be going down to where your hamstrings are lying on your calves as much as possible for your body.

As Sensei pointed out, power refers only to receiving the weight on your shoulders in a squat above parallel, or most commonly in a quartersquat position. If you start the motion from the hang position, then it is a hang clean. (There are also multiple hang positions to start from, such as high hang or the power position, a low hang above the knees or a low hang beneath the knees). If you start from the ground, then you are either doing a clean or a powerclean, depending how high you receive the weight.

I hope that clears things up.

Thanks man, I knew that what I thought of as powercleans wasn't always absolutely correct, but I ignored that. Thanks for clearing it up.