So I've been M.I.A. for awhile..

[Spiderman]

Did y'all miss me?? :D

Nah, seriously though..I've been reading a lot on the Long IGF-1 and considering using it as a bridge for 4-6 weeks between cycles. I'm not looking for people to tell me to go and research b/c I have, I'm a vet, I know my gear. I"m looking for peoples opinions ONLY and any appropriate suggestions they may have. Thank you!

Spidey

[RBB]

i've thought about igf-1 for pct, but i've never used it. i can definitely see the benefits. you'll hang on to your lbm and be able to stay lean. the only thing i don't like about the peptides (which will probably keep me from using them) are the sides. bone and organ growth, etc. that said, igf seems to be your best bet, its not as expensive to run as hgh.

[Gabrielle]

I personally will never run igf and I am also a vet(I'm not copping an attitude) Interesting bridge idea, I will have to look into the logic beind it. I always thought bridges were kinda useless. Never made sense to me in the slightest.

[ectx]

I personally will never run igf and I am also a vet(I'm not copping an attitude) Interesting bridge idea, I will have to look into the logic beind it. I always thought bridges were kinda useless. Never made sense to me in the slightest.

What are your reservations with IGF-1?

[Franco]

What grade of IGF do you have access to?

[method115]

i've thought about igf-1 for pct, but i've never used it. i can definitely see the benefits. you'll hang on to your lbm and be able to stay lean. the only thing i don't like about the peptides (which will probably keep me from using them) are the sides. bone and organ growth, etc. that said, igf seems to be your best bet, its not as expensive to run as hgh.


never mind got confused.

[Shark]

bone and organ growth, etc.

Tony Robins!

[sCaRz*Of*PaiN]

Tony Robins!Tony Robbins hungry!

http://i9.tinypic.com/6ateop3.jpg

[Holto]

What are your reservations with IGF-1?

I've read that one way to tell that you have good quality product is that your hands become stiff like someone with arthritis. (a little scary)

I also think that when you reach the point of running cycles between cycles, whats next?

[IBLiftin]

If I've learned anything from my own dumbazz self, lol. Is to come off COMPLETELY a couple times a year. Your body needs to find it's own natural levels of whatever your dumping into it, so let it recover once in a while. And coming off isn't a 4-6 week thing, it should be 8-12 weeks or more, just like a decent cycle.

Ever notice that the bbers who stay on year round never really get any "better" IE, Nasser, titus, prince, and many others, they never came off. The ones who were always improving cycled on and off, victor martinez, jay cutler, and ronnie.

Now before anyone goes off the deep end defending someone else, you all know who improves from year to year and who just learned how to diet better according to their cycles. Huge difference...

I was excited when I first heard of IGF, but it seems that it was too hard to get 100% guaranteed good stuff. At least that was the case 6-7 years ago. My vote would be just bite the bullet and come off, plus you'll feel like a new man when it's time to start your next go round. IMHO...

[RBB]

for those of you advocating coming off, i don't understand the logic behind your arguments for not using igf-1. igf-1 isn't going to have any effect on your HPTA. i totally agree with taking long breaks in between cycles to let your body recover, but i don't see how igf-1 or gh for that matter are going to do anything but help with your recovery.

[Jordanbcool]

When did bone growth become a bad thing? I would see that as a benefit personally.

[Unholy]

Google Acromegaly jordan.

[RBB]

When did bone growth become a bad thing? I would see that as a benefit personally.

not a good thing, bro.

[Belial]

Google Acromegaly jordan.

Not likely in normal adults, even those supplementing with HGH and IGF-1.

...Screw not likely.

Not possible.

[SpecialK]

Alright, this thread might be appropriate for my question:

How the heck did Barry Bonds' head grow? Some reports said he increased a few helmet sizes. Would GH really do that? I thought the plates of the skull fused together at a fairly early age.

[Unholy]

Not likely in normal adults, even those supplementing with HGH and IGF-1.

...Screw not likely.

Not possible.

I wasn't saying that IGF would cause Acromegaly, I was showing him how positive bone growth in adults is.

[Belial]

Right on.


Still a moot point, for the reason SpecialK just mentioned.

[Unholy]

No doubt, It was my understanding from A&P class that bones in the hands feet and face could still grow when growth plates are fused. Thats what causes the disfiguration. I could be totally wrong though, I was half asleep at the lectures anyway =O

[Belial]

Well, maybe a little disingenuous to say that bone growth is impossible. Yes, there can be bone overgrowth in the skull and extremities from years of elevated HGH/IGF-1 levels.

Linear bone growth is impossible, because, as SpecialK mentioned, growth plates have fused.

However, most IGF-1 and HGH dosing protocols wouldn't seem to be of sufficient levels to induce any kind of acromegaly... looking at some of the studies and trials I've found indicate that most adult male patients taking in 0.25iu/kg/week (Me taking in 3-4iu/day) don't demonstrate clinically significant elevations in HGH/IGF-1 levels, with the upper bound on IGF-1 levels being in the 350-500ng/dl range (normal being 150-250 in males).

Patients with acromegaly often show IGF-1 levels in the 1100-1500 range, and clinical symptoms from exogenous HGH-induced acromegaly don't seem to show for 6-7 years; the few cases I've found are all in elderly patients who have been on HGH year-round for 5+ years.

I would strongly suspect that, unless somebody were considering mega-dosing for extended periods of time (1 year plus) with HGH or IGF-1 (1+iu/kg/week for the former, and likely in the 0.015mg/kg/week for the latter), acromegaly is hardly a concern.

[RBB]

Well, maybe a little disingenuous to say that bone growth is impossible. Yes, there can be bone overgrowth in the skull and extremities from years of elevated HGH/IGF-1 levels.

Linear bone growth is impossible, because, as SpecialK mentioned, growth plates have fused.

However, most IGF-1 and HGH dosing protocols wouldn't seem to be of sufficient levels to induce any kind of acromegaly... looking at some of the studies and trials I've found indicate that most adult male patients taking in 0.25iu/kg/week (Me taking in 3-4iu/day) don't demonstrate clinically significant elevations in HGH/IGF-1 levels, with the upper bound on IGF-1 levels being in the 350-500ng/dl range (normal being 150-250 in males).

Patients with acromegaly often show IGF-1 levels in the 1100-1500 range, and clinical symptoms from exogenous HGH-induced acromegaly don't seem to show for 6-7 years; the few cases I've found are all in elderly patients who have been on HGH year-round for 5+ years.

I would strongly suspect that, unless somebody were considering mega-dosing for extended periods of time (1 year plus) with HGH or IGF-1 (1+iu/kg/week for the former, and likely in the 0.015mg/kg/week for the latter), acromegaly is hardly a concern.

belial, what do you think about internal organ growth? possible?

[Belial]

Sure. But, again, clinically insignificant. Most acromegalics tend to have cardiac issues and die at a relatively young age (around 40, I think), and autopsies always show cardiac hypertrophy. Other organs will grow as well, but a distended stomach is NOT a common early-stage indicator of acromegaly.

Which means that anybody who talks about a "big GH gut" is.... wrong. It would take a lifetime of HGH overproduction to cause enough intestinal hypertrophy to actually enlarge your belly. In which case, you got bigger problems.

[Unholy]

Werd, since you mentioned it. What is up with those big guts with what looks like abs painted on these days. I may be the only one but I don't think its very aesthetically pleasing at all compared to the BBers of the 70's and 80's.

Any physiological reasons for this?

[RBB]

Werd, since you mentioned it. What is up with those big guts with what looks like abs painted on these days. I may be the only one but I don't think its very aesthetically pleasing at all compared to the BBers of the 70's and 80's.

Any physiological reasons for this?

i think a lot of it has to do with the massive amounts of food these guys eat. having your gut that full all the time is bound to cause some abdominal distension. another theory out there is that insulin abuse plays a part as well. i have no idea how valid that argument is, however. maybe somebody else can explain that one.

[Unholy]

I would be very interested to know myself.

[Belial]

i think a lot of it has to do with the massive amounts of food these guys eat. having your gut that full all the time is bound to cause some abdominal distension. another theory out there is that insulin abuse plays a part as well. i have no idea how valid that argument is, however. maybe somebody else can explain that one.


That's actually part of what would be my guess.. visceral fat. Unnecessary insulin use could theoretically lead to abnormal fat deposition... but this would indicate that there is a difference in either the concentration or type of adrenoreceptors etc. in visceral fat (versus subcutaneous). Anybody know if this is the case?

[Unholy]

That's actually part of what would be my guess.. visceral fat. Unnecessary insulin use could theoretically lead to abnormal fat deposition... but this would indicate that there is a difference in either the concentration or type of adrenoreceptors etc. in visceral fat (versus subcutaneous). Anybody know if this is the case?

I remember reading about Visceral fat as being one of the causes of the infamous "GH Gut" or w/e people would like to call it. Whatever the cause may be it looks nasty.

[Rock]

But if you look at some Pros hands and heads they are have grown from earlier stages of their careers.

[Hellrazor]

Spideyongear ? How the hell are ya buddy ?