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LevesqueIsKing
05-18-2007, 09:58 PM
EDIT: Sry for the title, not a weight belt for dips or chins, a belt for bench/squats.

I really dont understand how this helps people in any exercises. Im sorry, Im a noob. Ive thought about it a lot and I just cant get it to make any sense. Ive seen people using them before and I still cant figure it out. Could someone explain to me how it helps you lift more?

Also, if anyone could explain any of the other devices and how they help you to lift more, itd be appreciated.

deeder
05-18-2007, 11:52 PM
A belt sort of "simulates" a stronger core... You push your stomach into it and it increases intra-abdominal pressure (or is it inter?).

There have been lots of threads about bench shirts and squat suits. And I believe it was Sensei who made a video explaining how a bench shirt works... You should be able to find that with a search in here.

drew
05-19-2007, 07:13 AM
Wearing a belt gives you something to push your abs against. Pushing out your abs makes you tighter. Tighter means more stable and more stable means lifting heavier weights.

rmccray
05-19-2007, 08:36 AM
good answer drew

:omg:

weak sauce
05-19-2007, 09:25 AM
ive had this question for a while and im sure others might be curious too

at what point should one start using a belt to lift? ive told myself once i can DL 405 raw 1-3 reps or squat 315 raw for 6 reps i will buy one. are there better guidelines? i do not compete though

Killa Kurt
05-19-2007, 10:15 AM
ive had this question for a while and im sure others might be curious too

at what point should one start using a belt to lift? ive told myself once i can DL 405 raw 1-3 reps or squat 315 raw for 6 reps i will buy one. are there better guidelines? i do not compete though

Never, it is just a crutch.

vdizenzo
05-19-2007, 11:18 PM
Never, it is just a crutch.

Don't listen to that nonsense. Wear the belt when you feel you need it. Strengthen your core by doing core exercises such as good mornings, pull throughs, weighted abs, etc. You'll be fine.

Killa Kurt
05-19-2007, 11:50 PM
Don't listen to that nonsense. Wear the belt when you feel you need it. Strengthen your core by doing core exercises such as good mornings, pull throughs, weighted abs, etc. You'll be fine.

I've been weightlifting for almost 10 years now, I've never used a belt and I have never been injured lifting, nor on the job (carpenter). Almost every single lifter with credibility that I have talked to in person said it is a bad idea. What happens when you take it off?

Chubrock
05-20-2007, 08:26 AM
I've been weightlifting for almost 10 years now, I've never used a belt and I have never been injured lifting, nor on the job (carpenter). Almost every single lifter with credibility that I have talked to in person said it is a bad idea. What happens when you take it off?

Hahaha do you have any idea who you're talking with? Look up a couple of threads before you start throwing your "expertise" into the face of somebody benching mid 500s RAW.

vdizenzo
05-20-2007, 08:34 AM
I've been weightlifting for almost 10 years now, I've never used a belt and I have never been injured lifting, nor on the job (carpenter). Almost every single lifter with credibility that I have talked to in person said it is a bad idea. What happens when you take it off?

I'm sorry I did not realize I was talking to "thee" Killa Kurt. Please forgive my ignorance.

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 08:43 AM
I'm sorry I did not realize I was talking to "thee" Killa Kurt. Please forgive my ignorance.

Just my opinion, I think the idea of straps, belts, or anything that helps aid your lifts, are misleading....you can't actually lift it unless you have that aid, whatever it may be (shirt, suit, straps, belts, etc.). Still my question is, what happens when you take these off?

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 08:45 AM
Hahaha do you have any idea who you're talking with? Look up a couple of threads before you start throwing your "expertise" into the face of somebody benching mid 500s RAW.

I'm over 400 RAW at 23 at a bodyweight of 214 lbs, maybe you should look at my journal before you downplay my expertise.

Chubrock
05-20-2007, 09:17 AM
I'm over 400 RAW at 23 at a bodyweight of 214 lbs, maybe you should look at my journal before you downplay my expertise.



I've seen your journal and stand beside my statement.

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 09:27 AM
I've seen your journal and stand beside my statement.

Ok talk to me at the end of summer.

Chubrock
05-20-2007, 09:45 AM
Uh, ok?

vdizenzo
05-20-2007, 10:12 AM
I'm over 400 RAW at 23 at a bodyweight of 214 lbs, maybe you should look at my journal before you downplay my expertise.

So what competition was your 400 done in? Can we at least see a vid? I have competed in every big bench show there is. I have been lifting for over 20 years. I can lift with and without gear. I have done an 800lb trap bar dl without even a belt. I can standing overhead press 400 any day of the week. I have a 575 raw and an 800 shirt bench and every single lift I mentioned was in a competition.

It's know it alls like yourself that make named lifters not post on the forums. Does Louie Simmons at Westside or Dave Tate and Jim Wendler at Elite know who you are because they sure as hell know who I am.

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 11:22 AM
So what competition was your 400 done in? Can we at least see a vid? I have competed in every big bench show there is. I have been lifting for over 20 years. I can lift with and without gear. I have done an 800lb trap bar dl without even a belt. I can standing overhead press 400 any day of the week. I have a 575 raw and an 800 shirt bench and every single lift I mentioned was in a competition.

It's know it alls like yourself that make named lifters not post on the forums. Does Louie Simmons at Westside or Dave Tate and Jim Wendler at Elite know who you are because they sure as hell know who I am.

I didn't claim to know it all, this is what I posted.

"Just my opinion, I think the idea of straps, belts, or anything that helps aid your lifts, are misleading....you can't actually lift it unless you have that aid, whatever it may be (shirt, suit, straps, belts, etc.). Still my question is, what happens when you take these off?"

Well since my post was directed at Chubrock and I said that me and you "agree to disagree" but you decided to fire, I guess I'll fire back. For refrence of videos, you can go here http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=KurtBeacon where I have a 405 failure which was 2 months ago. Monday I will have bench videos for you. Who, who, and who from where? Honestly I don't give a **** who they are, who they know, or who knows you......hop on the back of their train and I'll continue to conduct my own. It's funny that you say you pull 800 WITHOUT a belt, after I said I don't think it's a good idea to use one at all regardless of the weight, besides what are you doing pulling anyway.....your a bench specialist right?

Chubrock
05-20-2007, 11:33 AM
Almost every single lifter with credibility that I have talked to in person said it is a bad idea.


You really can't get too much more credible than the guys Diz listed.

vdizenzo
05-20-2007, 11:56 AM
Kurt, I guess I am a bench specialist, but I am strong in every lift. I also said I lift with and without equipment (including a belt). As far as hopping on anyone's back you are just an ass for saying that. I will not go into my list of accomplishments because people who know lifting know me. Not knowing who Westside and Elite Fitness are simply shows your ingorance. They are some of the foremost thinkers on lifting weights. So who are the lifters you said you talk to with credibility?

By the way, from watching your deadlifts you should definitely do your homework. They were some of the worst deadlifts I have ever seen. Clearly you are a strong kid, try shutting your mouth and opening your ears. You have lots of room to grow in your game both physically and mentally. Or continue to know it all and languish in mediocrity.

RhodeHouse
05-20-2007, 12:21 PM
Killa, who? I'm sorry, noone here has ever heard of you. You can wander in weak mediocrity standing by your question of, what happens when you take it off? My question is, what would happen if you put it on? If you did that, then you wouldn't have an excuse to be weak. If you don't use those aids, then you have an excuse for being weak. If you like having excuses, good for you. The bottom line is, you still have to do the lifting regardless of what you use to help you lift. If you had any clue, you'd understand that. But, you are 23 and you know everything, and we all know who you are because of your amazing 400 bench at 214 bwt. You're Kurt ... Who? I'm sorry, nobody knows who you are. Take your ghey training journal and show people that will be impressed. I know somewhere, so kid thinks you're the greatest. We're all too busy here being the greatest, and we don't have to tell people about it. Jackass

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 12:54 PM
Killa, who? I'm sorry, noone here has ever heard of you. You can wander in weak mediocrity standing by your question of, what happens when you take it off? My question is, what would happen if you put it on? If you did that, then you wouldn't have an excuse to be weak. If you don't use those aids, then you have an excuse for being weak. If you like having excuses, good for you. The bottom line is, you still have to do the lifting regardless of what you use to help you lift. If you had any clue, you'd understand that. But, you are 23 and you know everything, and we all know who you are because of your amazing 400 bench at 214 bwt. You're Kurt ... Who? I'm sorry, nobody knows who you are. Take your ghey training journal and show people that will be impressed. I know somewhere, so kid thinks you're the greatest. We're all too busy here being the greatest, and we don't have to tell people about it. Jackass

And you're who? LOL @ you trying to make yourself sound like a celebrity lifter.

The lifters in my gym moving heavy weights, that's about all I need.

I'm doing physical work for almost 10 hrs a day, never been injured, never used a belt. The bottom line is that this isn't politics it doesn't matter who knows me, you, your friend, or anyone else in this game. You go to battle with the iron and you win or lose, it doesn't matter who the **** you are, who knows you, and who you know. Really read the posts in order, I never downplayed anyones lifts, or anyones "accomplishments", are you guys that mad that I think belts are a crutch?

vdizenzo
05-20-2007, 01:35 PM
are you guys that mad that I think belts are a crutch?

No I am just frustrated because people are asking for information and you are misinforming them. Don't forget you were the first one to throw around "every lifter I know with credibility." This is not an opinion, you are just plain wrong. The belt lends itself to core stability, not to weakening your back.

RhodeHouse
05-20-2007, 01:46 PM
I see that both you and your buddy are from Jersey. It just so happens that Southside is in Milford, CT. You guys can clearly talk the talk on the internet. It would be a pleasure for Big Rob, Vincent, myelf, and the rest of the SFW crew to have you guys as our distinguished guests at Southside for a night of heavy benching. You would get a chance to see how we do it. Learning different styles of training can always benefit anyone. It's one more tool in the tool box of knowledge. You guys should really come up and train. Maybe it's time to walk the walk. Come up and watch the big fish in the big pond. Unless, you like being the big fish in a small pond. It's just lifting weights. If you have 10 years of lifting under your belt, I'm sure you could hang with us. Let me know, and I'll give you directions. Hope to hear from you soon.

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 03:24 PM
I see that both you and your buddy are from Jersey. It just so happens that Southside is in Milford, CT. You guys can clearly talk the talk on the internet. It would be a pleasure for Big Rob, Vincent, myelf, and the rest of the SFW crew to have you guys as our distinguished guests at Southside for a night of heavy benching. You would get a chance to see how we do it. Learning different styles of training can always benefit anyone. It's one more tool in the tool box of knowledge. You guys should really come up and train. Maybe it's time to walk the walk. Come up and watch the big fish in the big pond. Unless, you like being the big fish in a small pond. It's just lifting weights. If you have 10 years of lifting under your belt, I'm sure you could hang with us. Let me know, and I'll give you directions. Hope to hear from you soon.

I think I'll drive 2.1 miles to my current gym, but thanks....?:scratch:

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 03:27 PM
No I am just frustrated because people are asking for information and you are misinforming them. Don't forget you were the first one to throw around "every lifter I know with credibility." This is not an opinion, you are just plain wrong. The belt lends itself to core stability, not to weakening your back.

I'm not saying it weakens your back, I'm saying I feel it is a crutch and I don't think there is any need for it if you train without it right off the bat....

vdizenzo
05-20-2007, 03:57 PM
I'm not saying it weakens your back, I'm saying I feel it is a crutch and I don't think there is any need for it if you train without it right off the bat....

Do you ever plan on competing? This is a powerlifting and olympic lifting forum. Powerlifters and olympic lifters use belts. You are giving bad information. These lifters need their belts. If you never plan on competing please just go to the weightlifting forum. You can talk all the crap you want about belts, wraps, gear, etc. there.

Rhodes invited you to a very well known gym where many elite level lifters train and you mock him. You are an arrogant little child. I used to commute ten hours a week to train with two of the world's best benchers and guess what--I became one of the best benchers. Continue being the mediocre fish in the small pond, but don't screw up other lifters with your lack of knowledge when answering quesitons.

JHarris
05-20-2007, 05:21 PM
Do you ever plan on competing? This is a powerlifting and olympic lifting forum. Powerlifters and olympic lifters use belts. You are giving bad information. These lifters need their belts. If you never plan on competing please just go to the weightlifting forum. You can talk all the crap you want about belts, wraps, gear, etc. there.

Rhodes invited you to a very well known gym where many elite level lifters train and you mock him. You are an arrogant little child. I used to commute ten hours a week to train with two of the world's best benchers and guess what--I became one of the best benchers. Continue being the mediocre fish in the small pond, but don't screw up other lifters with your lack of knowledge when answering quesitons.

Honestly, it doesnt matter who you know, or who you are or what you've done or claim to do on the internet. What works for the world's top powerlifter may not work for a high school kid playing football. What Kendrick Farris does in his clean and jerk to move 200kg is not what everyone should do, necessarily.

If you believe something about lifting and somenoe asks a question about that, explain your reasoning. These are forums! They are designed to have discussion. Just being able to move X pounds doesnt mean you are right for all athletes or even anyone besides you. It might not even be best for you. Its really tiring to see people reply with 'You are wrong because I can lift this much.' Yes, I can't bench press 600 lbs. No I wont talk about my lifts on this board because my clean and jerk and snatch totals shouldn't convince anyone to listen to me. My logic, research and explanations should.

That being said, Im going to listen to someone associated with West Side or Elite fitness if I want information on strictly how to squat, bench or deadlift more in a powerlifting meet. No question. Those groups have proven time and time again that they know what they are talking about, and if you read Dave Tate's articles, he doesnt take that for granted. He still explains himself a lot because -that- is how you properly discuss things.

However, when we deal with issues like 'do I use a belt?'' or 'should I squat with a super wide stance', there needs to be a second question: What is the person trying to accomplish? Olympic lifting methods would not be ideal for a powerlifting. Powerlifting methods would not be ideal for a gymnast. If a young football player wants advice on squat depth and stance, Im going to offer different advice than I am to a seasoned Tae Kwon Do athlete. Their needs are different! No one ways works for everything because experience level, desires, goals all play into training advice. I think people lose track of that a lot here and get very tied up into the 'my way is the best'. It isnt'. Not for everyone.

And by the way, not all olympic lifters wear belts. In fact, almost all of them avoid belts on snatches, and a large number of the ones I have known avoid belts all together except maybe on maximal clean and jerks.

Jay

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 05:47 PM
Do you ever plan on competing? This is a powerlifting and olympic lifting forum. Powerlifters and olympic lifters use belts. You are giving bad information. These lifters need their belts. If you never plan on competing please just go to the weightlifting forum. You can talk all the crap you want about belts, wraps, gear, etc. there.

Rhodes invited you to a very well known gym where many elite level lifters train and you mock him. You are an arrogant little child. I used to commute ten hours a week to train with two of the world's best benchers and guess what--I became one of the best benchers. Continue being the mediocre fish in the small pond, but don't screw up other lifters with your lack of knowledge when answering quesitons.

Mediocre? I'm 115 lbs. behind you, and I'm gaining almost every max effort day......I'd be careful what you call mediocre...

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 05:49 PM
Honestly, it doesnt matter who you know, or who you are or what you've done or claim to do on the internet. What works for the world's top powerlifter may not work for a high school kid playing football. What Kendrick Farris does in his clean and jerk to move 200kg is not what everyone should do, necessarily.

If you believe something about lifting and somenoe asks a question about that, explain your reasoning. These are forums! They are designed to have discussion. Just being able to move X pounds doesnt mean you are right for all athletes or even anyone besides you. It might not even be best for you. Its really tiring to see people reply with 'You are wrong because I can lift this much.' Yes, I can't bench press 600 lbs. No I wont talk about my lifts on this board because my clean and jerk and snatch totals shouldn't convince anyone to listen to me. My logic, research and explanations should.

That being said, Im going to listen to someone associated with West Side or Elite fitness if I want information on strictly how to squat, bench or deadlift more in a powerlifting meet. No question. Those groups have proven time and time again that they know what they are talking about, and if you read Dave Tate's articles, he doesnt take that for granted. He still explains himself a lot because -that- is how you properly discuss things.

However, when we deal with issues like 'do I use a belt?'' or 'should I squat with a super wide stance', there needs to be a second question: What is the person trying to accomplish? Olympic lifting methods would not be ideal for a powerlifting. Powerlifting methods would not be ideal for a gymnast. If a young football player wants advice on squat depth and stance, Im going to offer different advice than I am to a seasoned Tae Kwon Do athlete. Their needs are different! No one ways works for everything because experience level, desires, goals all play into training advice. I think people lose track of that a lot here and get very tied up into the 'my way is the best'. It isnt'. Not for everyone.

And by the way, not all olympic lifters wear belts. In fact, almost all of them avoid belts on snatches, and a large number of the ones I have known avoid belts all together except maybe on maximal clean and jerks.

Jay

True.

Chubrock
05-20-2007, 05:53 PM
....

vdizenzo
05-20-2007, 05:54 PM
Mediocre? I'm 115 lbs. behind you, and I'm gaining almost every max effort day......I'd be careful what you call mediocre...

115 behind me in what? Plus, yours are all gym lifts. I guess you are "the man" in the gym, but your lifts are mediocre in this world.

vdizenzo
05-20-2007, 06:00 PM
Honestly, it doesnt matter who you know, or who you are or what you've done or claim to do on the internet. What works for the world's top powerlifter may not work for a high school kid playing football. What Kendrick Farris does in his clean and jerk to move 200kg is not what everyone should do, necessarily.

If you believe something about lifting and somenoe asks a question about that, explain your reasoning. These are forums! They are designed to have discussion. Just being able to move X pounds doesnt mean you are right for all athletes or even anyone besides you. It might not even be best for you. Its really tiring to see people reply with 'You are wrong because I can lift this much.' Yes, I can't bench press 600 lbs. No I wont talk about my lifts on this board because my clean and jerk and snatch totals shouldn't convince anyone to listen to me. My logic, research and explanations should.

That being said, Im going to listen to someone associated with West Side or Elite fitness if I want information on strictly how to squat, bench or deadlift more in a powerlifting meet. No question. Those groups have proven time and time again that they know what they are talking about, and if you read Dave Tate's articles, he doesnt take that for granted. He still explains himself a lot because -that- is how you properly discuss things.

However, when we deal with issues like 'do I use a belt?'' or 'should I squat with a super wide stance', there needs to be a second question: What is the person trying to accomplish? Olympic lifting methods would not be ideal for a powerlifting. Powerlifting methods would not be ideal for a gymnast. If a young football player wants advice on squat depth and stance, Im going to offer different advice than I am to a seasoned Tae Kwon Do athlete. Their needs are different! No one ways works for everything because experience level, desires, goals all play into training advice. I think people lose track of that a lot here and get very tied up into the 'my way is the best'. It isnt'. Not for everyone.

And by the way, not all olympic lifters wear belts. In fact, almost all of them avoid belts on snatches, and a large number of the ones I have known avoid belts all together except maybe on maximal clean and jerks.

Jay

Jay, this is a pl and ol forum. Powerlifters wear belts. I also looked at many ol lifts on the net (I do my research) and they were wearing belts. It was also explained very early on in the thread by Drew what the belt was used for, guess you overlooked that. I have also answered the belt question on this very forum. Some could argue that a little research goes a long way. If people want to know about training with weights for Tae Kwan Do or football then they should say it. By the way, Rhodes coached college ball. We have a vast pool of knowledge so we are pretty helpful if people would just accept it.

JHarris
05-20-2007, 06:16 PM
Jay, this is a pl and ol forum. Powerlifters wear belts. I also looked at many ol lifts on the net (I do my research) and they were wearing belts. It was also explained very early on in the thread by Drew what the belt was used for, guess you overlooked that. I have also answered the belt question on this very forum. Some could argue that a little research goes a long way. If people want to know about training with weights for Tae Kwan Do or football then they should say it. By the way, Rhodes coached college ball. We have a vast pool of knowledge so we are pretty helpful if people would just accept it.

I didn't overlook anything. I was making a general point about these forums, not taking one side against the other in this particular debate. These debates just come up so often that I really wanted to make a point about them. I agree - the original poster just wanted to know why a belt can be useful. Any debate as to whether or not they should be used was off topic, but once that debated started, my point is that people did not defend their positions with logic or reasoning and THAT is what I would rather see.

And you are right, people should state what they are training for, but when they don't, the question should be asked and the answer should be kept in mind. Again, this was a more general response to these types of arguments. However, it is quite frequent in this forum for the same people to post the same advice for every question. Don't get me wrong, certain things should be the same. You absolutely need to keep your heels down while squatting. You should always shrug before you pull with your arms on a clean. Basics are one thing, and those don't change. But not everone needs a wide stance squat. Not everyone needs a belt for exercises. Not everyone needs a full Olympic style squat.. the list goes on.

I'd just like to see people back up what they suggest with reasoning, and stop playing this 'I'm stronger than you so listen to me'-game. Its obvious to me, despite having disagreements with him in the past, that Rhodehouse, among others, knows his stuff and not surprisingly he gives lots of good advice on here. People are lucky to have that sort of resource. But when there is disagreement, and there ought to be since training is not a hard science like chemistry, then there ought to be intelligent discussion as that will benefit everyone more.

Jay

bill
05-20-2007, 06:21 PM
I'm thinking of giving my belt a name I like it so much. It's truely foolish not to try using a belt. You can always take it off if it's not for you.

vdizenzo
05-20-2007, 06:50 PM
Man this is some tough reading. I feel like I am reading a transcript from Dr. Phil. I give up, everyone throw out your belts and lets hold hands. Bwwahhahhhhhhahha :soapbox:

vdizenzo
05-20-2007, 06:59 PM
By the way JHarris, at what point has a lifter earned/deserve a little respect. Most people get ahead in the game through hard work and knowlege. Granted there are a few who are purely genetically gifted, but all of the elite lifters I have spoken to have a great grasp on the subject of strength training. Did you know a couple of years ago it was common for the biggest names in the sport to post on the internet. Now they no longer post because know it all keyboard jockeys have no idea how to show some respect on the net.

JHarris
05-20-2007, 07:07 PM
By the way JHarris, at what point has a lifter earned/deserve a little respect. Most people get ahead in the game through hard work and knowlege. Granted there are a few who are purely genetically gifted, but all of the elite lifters I have spoken to have a great grasp on the subject of strength training. Did you know a couple of years ago it was common for the biggest names in the sport to post on the internet. Now they no longer post because know it all keyboard jockeys have no idea how to show some respect on the net.

Whether or not someone deserves respect has not been my point. If you want people to trust what you have to say, stating that you know better just because is not an argument. I don't buy half the claims I see on the internet because if I did, everyone would have a 500 lb ATG squat. What I do buy is good reasoning and explanation behind things as I can verify that for myself.
Further, just being good at something doesn't mean you are knowleable about it. I recognize your point, that many people who are good are knowleable, but that is not everyone. Good logic, though, is always good logic.

Again, I have respect for powerlifting advice coming out of Westside or Elite Fitness, no question. But I don't often look for powerlifting advice because I am not a powerlifter. I also wouldn't give powerlifting advice to most non-powerlifters. That is my opinion, though, and I am not necessarily 100% correct in that line of thought. If you were interested, though, I'd be more than happy to explain why I feel that way.

Jay

drew
05-20-2007, 07:33 PM
Personally, my best bench on Sept 16, 2006 was 275. After 7+ months training with vincent, rob and rhodes, my best gym bench is 405. On my way to 500.

No, I don't use my weight (218) as an excuse for pushing less weight. I don't have an excuse. I'm doing what I have to to bench more and then juvenile assclowns who don't want to work come out and whine about 800lb benchers using belts and it making them weaker.

My belt makes me stronger. If you want to keep bragging on your 400 bench, that's cool. I'll keep quiet and listen when guys like Dizenzo, McCray and Rhodes tell me what to do. They don't have to help me. But they do it because I'm willing to shut my ****ing mouth and open my ears and just SFW.

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 07:43 PM
Personally, my best bench on Sept 16, 2006 was 275. After 7+ months training with vincent, rob and rhodes, my best gym bench is 405. On my way to 500.

No, I don't use my weight (218) as an excuse for pushing less weight. I don't have an excuse. I'm doing what I have to to bench more and then juvenile assclowns who don't want to work come out and whine about 800lb benchers using belts and it making them weaker.

My belt makes me stronger. If you want to keep bragging on your 400 bench, that's cool. I'll keep quiet and listen when guys like Dizenzo, McCray and Rhodes tell me what to do. They don't have to help me. But they do it because I'm willing to shut my ****ing mouth and open my ears and just SFW.

First off, they have weight classes for a reason, second off he is not a 800 lb bencher but the weight is irrelevant, and I never said it made anyone weaker, you sound really stupid and off-point right now. Your belt makes your stronger, that's great, my muscles are my strength, and you know what....that same strength translates into real life when I'm still not wearing my belt, straps, or suits. Anyone can follow a routine layed out by someone before you, if they're doing it, how are you going to surpass them?

LevesqueIsKing
05-20-2007, 07:46 PM
I got my answer, and I thank those of you who answered my question without going off topic.

If a mod could please close this thread it would be appreciated by everyone.

BigGreed
05-20-2007, 07:50 PM
My only belt has a gun holster attached to it and i know i always feel stronger with a gun on my waist.

drew
05-20-2007, 07:54 PM
he is not a 800 lb bencher

Really? http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/records/800-pound-bench-press

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 07:56 PM
Really? http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/records/800-pound-bench-press

Are we talking RAW here or what? Are you a groupie?

TeamstockyScott
05-20-2007, 07:57 PM
My belt makes me stronger.

So...basically what you're trying to say is that it gives you an advantage in a meet just like every other piece of equipment.

Powerlifting is all about inflating numbers and shortening range of motion by whatever means possible to the limits of that federation. I don't recall kurt ever trying to discredit westside barbell or elitefts powerlifters. He said using a belt was a crutch. If you aren't going into a meet or training right up to it, then yeah, I'd agree with that. All I've been reading is a bashfest on his numbers and youth in the iron game. There are countless videos with olympic lifters belt-free. Keep it real and acknowledge the fact that belts help inflate numbers.

Chubrock
05-20-2007, 08:21 PM
So...basically what you're trying to say is that it gives you an advantage in a meet just like every other piece of equipment.

.



Do you use chalk, take caffeine, listen to loud music in order to raise your adrenaline levels that wouldn't normally be in a heightened state?

bill
05-20-2007, 08:26 PM
Saying a belt is not needed on a powerlifting forum is asking for a bashing. Now that's logic

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 08:29 PM
Do you use chalk, take caffeine, listen to loud music in order to raise your adrenaline levels that wouldn't normally be in a heightened state?

You're comparing chalk, taking caffeine, and listening to music to a belt/straps/suits/shirts?

Chubrock
05-20-2007, 08:32 PM
Yes I am. Both of you are suggesting that the belt does the lifting; that the extra 15-20lbs a lifter pulls while wearing one isn't in anyway credited to the lifter, but instead belongs to the belt. I'm saying the same thing about chalk, caffeine, etc etc. It's not "all you" if you're using any of the above.

TeamstockyScott
05-20-2007, 08:38 PM
my grip is stronger than my back so I don't need the chalk. I don't take caffeine, and adrenaline is "all you."

Chubrock
05-20-2007, 08:58 PM
You're both right. What was I thinking? Let's go ahead and discredit Andy Bolton's record breaking DLs because he used a belt.

BigGreed
05-20-2007, 08:59 PM
I listen to loud music and i'm mad all the time.

BigGreed
05-20-2007, 09:01 PM
loud music+ caffeine = steroids

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 09:03 PM
You're both right. What was I thinking? Let's go ahead and discredit Andy Bolton's record breaking DLs because he used a belt.

No this is not what I'm saying, what I said was that I don't think you should use them because it is a crutch. I didn't say that you should discredit anyones lifts who uses one.

TeamstockyScott
05-20-2007, 09:04 PM
You're both right. What was I thinking? Let's go ahead and discredit Andy Bolton's record breaking DLs because he used a belt.

I'm going to discredit andy bolton because I don't think he fully locked out on his lift. I still consider benedikt magnusson the true deadlift king.

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 09:05 PM
I'm going to discredit andy bolton because I don't think he fully locked out on his lift. I still consider benedikt magnusson the true deadlift king.

:withstupi

Chubrock
05-20-2007, 09:09 PM
See this is where we differ. I see it as a tool, just like chalk and all the other things I listed. Heck I haven't ever used a belt (minus the one weightlifting class in highschool) but I wouldn't say it's a crutch. HOWEVER, if the person uses it instead of developing their core strength, then yes I would agree, however that isn't the case with most of the people that post in this section.

drew
05-20-2007, 09:49 PM
Are we talking RAW here or what? Are you a groupie?

No, a student.

Stop being so concerned with RAW (what a f'ing ghey word) and just move some ****ing weight.

vdizenzo
05-20-2007, 10:17 PM
Anyone can follow a routine layed out by someone before you, if they're doing it, how are you going to surpass them?

My training partner Rob McCray will very soon pass my shirted bench using my training methods. He is doing it through hard work and God given ability. He stronger than I, that is how he will surpass me. I would train anyone I respect to do the same. That is what powerlifting is about.

You guys just don't get it. That is why you are gym lifters and not competitors. Best of luck to you all in being the strongest guys in your gym or the strongest carpenter on the job.

deeder
05-20-2007, 10:20 PM
How about this... To everyone who thinks that a belt, suit, wrap lifts weight for you... Go throw some gear on and get an extra 200-300lbs magically out of your lifts like you think it gives. Sorry to say... It doesn't happen like that. Lifting in gear and lifting raw are two very different things.

vdizenzo
05-20-2007, 10:24 PM
Are we talking RAW here or what? Are you a groupie?

No he's my training partner and we are lucky to have him in the group. He's got a ton of heart, listens, works hard, and has made great progress. Regarding my RAW bench (why do you people always have to capitalize raw?) no, the 800 was not raw. I will however hit a 600 RAW in a CONTEST which will put me on a very short list. Yet another accomplishment that I will be very proud of. However, I will be wearing my belt. It helps with my stability on the bench (that was for JHarris--I must explain everything now).

vdizenzo
05-20-2007, 10:30 PM
I'm going to discredit andy bolton because I don't think he fully locked out on his lift. I still consider benedikt magnusson the true deadlift king.

Benedikt is the devil. He was wearing a belt and a suit. Two crutches, for shame!

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 10:32 PM
No he's my training partner and we are lucky to have him in the group. He's got a ton of heart, listens, works hard, and has made great progress. Regarding my RAW bench (why do you people always have to capitalize raw?) no, the 800 was not raw. I will however hit a 600 RAW in a CONTEST which will put me on a very short list. Yet another accomplishment that I will be very proud of. However, I will be wearing my belt. It helps with my stability on the bench (that was for JHarris--I must explain everything now).

On a serious note, I hope you hit it, and I would be very proud of it also. I never discredited your lifts, to each his own, you like the belt, I don't........ Hopefully you got a chip on your shoulder and it helps you.

drew
05-20-2007, 10:33 PM
Benedikt is the devil. He was wearing a belt and a suit. Two crutches, for shame!

And he used chalk... tricky bastid.

Killa Kurt
05-20-2007, 10:37 PM
And he used chalk... tricky bastid.

You guys are really mad, and it's funny. No one said anything about chalk.....lol.

North
05-21-2007, 12:41 AM
Hey killa, don't worry I don't know why people got all pissy when someone asked you if you thought it was a good idea to use a belt and you said no. I'm sure if you were argueing with someone like me or someone that didn't have as much credibility as Vdizenzo you woulda been fine. But i've learned on this forum that it isn't so much as who's right sometimes as who has been lifting longer.

Good luck on your goals both killa and Vdizenzo

JHarris
05-21-2007, 06:12 AM
No he's my training partner and we are lucky to have him in the group. He's got a ton of heart, listens, works hard, and has made great progress. Regarding my RAW bench (why do you people always have to capitalize raw?) no, the 800 was not raw. I will however hit a 600 RAW in a CONTEST which will put me on a very short list. Yet another accomplishment that I will be very proud of. However, I will be wearing my belt. It helps with my stability on the bench (that was for JHarris--I must explain everything now).

Really, you are the one who isn't getting my point, or even some of your own. Lets first look at your point that you are not getting. This is a powerlifting AND olympic lifting forum. Therefore, powerlifters do not have the final word on everything. That means people are going to disagree with your methods or thought, and they won't necessarily be wrong because we are not just looking at powerlifting here. You are the one who keeps stressing what this forum is - for god's sake, pay attention to your own point.

And as far as explanation goes, don't explain if you like. I don't particularly care on this topic because I don't have much of an interest in pushing my bench as far as it can go using any means necessary. In fact, my bench max is not very important to me at all. Im sure your Snatch max isn't important to you.

However, and try to follow the line of reasoning here, if someone was to disagree with you and actually posted a reasonable argument, and all you said was 'wear a belt on bench, because I do it and Im strong', chances are people will listen to the person with a reasonable argument? Why? Because people go with what they understand and what makes sense to them. And I'll point this out again.. even someone who is a recognizable name to many non-powerlifters, Date Tate, explains himself in articles and discussions. So does Jim Wendler. They are not above doing so, but you all should be?

Finally, no matter how many times you say 'a bench shirt wont lift weight on its own' or 'no one with a 300 lb squat puts on a squat suit and moves 800lbs', there are going to be people who are dubious of these things. Personally, I don't have an issue with them in powerlifting because that is the sport. As far as training for other sports go, I think there are better methods.

Powerlifting's sole pursuit is putting more weight on these lifts. You'll notice the sole pursuit is NOT increasing strength or athleticism in the context of other sports. This doesn't mean these aren't 2 possible by products (and they usually are), but it does mean that there might be better methods to gaining performance in OTHER sports than the ones used in powerlifting. Since you mainly are concerned with moving weight, you will change the technique and use whatever is available to you to allow you to do this, including shortening the motion and using whatever outside aides are available to you. Many people are not impressed by these sorts of means to an end. Many people are.

Let me be clear about this so you dont miss the point once again, I personally think this is your sport and you should do whatever will make you successful within the rules. I use chalk for Olympic lifting. I'd be crazy and non-competitive not to. I don't use a belt because it have never been proven to me to actually help my Olympic lifts at all, and I like to train the way I compete so I won't touch one for my front squats, back squats or RDL's. I also happen to believe that by not training with a belt, my abs have gotten more stabilization work and are consequently a bit stronger. Notice I'm not claiming you are weaker for using one.

Since you've missed the point so many times, Im going to give you a final thought, ala Jerry Springer: stop acting like you know everything. No one believes someone when they act like they know everything. Stop acting like powerlifting is the only way. I respect powerlifting and what you all in it accomplish, but you are just not right if you think powerlifting methods are the only methods for everyone.

Jay

vdizenzo
05-21-2007, 06:26 AM
Holy shiznit you are verbose JHarris. I included the fact that this is an ol forum as well as a pl forum. I even went so far as to check out a lot of ol videos to see if they were wearing belts and many of them were. But of course you did not read that, you were too busy thinking up your next manifesto. Also, I have written articles for Elite. I just don't think everything I say has to be explained ad nauseaum. If someone who posts wants something explained or needs some reasoning sometimes they can just ask. Perhaps you can come to my next seminar and critique it for me.

vdizenzo
05-21-2007, 06:27 AM
On a serious note, I hope you hit it, and I would be very proud of it also. I never discredited your lifts, to each his own, you like the belt, I don't........ Hopefully you got a chip on your shoulder and it helps you.

Thanks for the words of support. Good luck with your lifting. You have an open invite to Southside in CT.

JHarris
05-21-2007, 06:45 AM
Holy shiznit you are verbose JHarris. I included the fact that this is an ol forum as well as a pl forum. I even went so far as to check out a lot of ol videos to see if they were wearing belts and many of them were. But of course you did not read that, you were too busy thinking up your next manifesto. Also, I have written articles for Elite. I just don't think everything I say has to be explained ad nauseaum. If someone who posts wants something explained or needs some reasoning sometimes they can just ask. Perhaps you can come to my next seminar and critique it for me.

Missed the point again, Vdizenzo. And I read what you've said, but unfortunately you don't recognize that my main point has not had ANYTHING to do with belts in Olympic weightlifting. That was one small side point, and come on.. watching a few videos on the internet does not make you an expert on that. And yes, you stated it was an Olympic and Powerlifting forum, but the way you respond to everyone is to only accept powerlifting methods. Seriously, it is frustrating to try to point anything out to you.

If I want something explained, I would ask. In fact, I have done so before. The usual response I get, and this is what I am complaining about, is the response of 'because it works' or 'I lift a lot and I use it, so you should to'. If people disagree with your point and you think they are wrong, then you SHOULD explain why and not just make these sorts of silly statements. THAT's when you should explain, because otherwise the conversation degrades into what much of this thread has been - macho crap.

Honestly, it is pointless to try to reason with you. You are sure you are right about everything because you move a lot of weight. I'm sure you are a great powerlifter, and my hat is off to you for that. There's no doubt you know more about it than me. I'm not critiquing your knowledge of your sport, just how you try to apply it to others at times and act like it is the only way.

Jay

vdizenzo
05-21-2007, 07:04 AM
Missed the point again, Vdizenzo. And I read what you've said, but unfortunately you don't recognize that my main point has not had ANYTHING to do with belts in Olympic weightlifting. That was one small side point, and come on.. watching a few videos on the internet does not make you an expert on that. And yes, you stated it was an Olympic and Powerlifting forum, but the way you respond to everyone is to only accept powerlifting methods. Seriously, it is frustrating to try to point anything out to you.

If I want something explained, I would ask. In fact, I have done so before. The usual response I get, and this is what I am complaining about, is the response of 'because it works' or 'I lift a lot and I use it, so you should to'. If people disagree with your point and you think they are wrong, then you SHOULD explain why and not just make these sorts of silly statements. THAT's when you should explain, because otherwise the conversation degrades into what much of this thread has been - macho crap.

Honestly, it is pointless to try to reason with you. You are sure you are right about everything because you move a lot of weight. I'm sure you are a great powerlifter, and my hat is off to you for that. There's no doubt you know more about it than me. I'm not critiquing your knowledge of your sport, just how you try to apply it to others at times and act like it is the only way.

Jay



Did I ever say I was an expert on OL lifting. I stated I watched some vids so I could make an informed decision on whether or not OL lifters wear belts. The other information I share is what I have learned through trial and error and what I have learned first hand through many great lifters. This information has worked with all of the pl lifters I have worked with.

It is pointless to try reasoning with you. You much prefer talking to listening.

JHarris
05-21-2007, 07:10 AM
It is pointless to try reasoning with you. You much prefer talking to listening.

This coming from the guy who harps on a belt in Olympic lifting even though I've stated over and over again that this is not the take away of any of my posts. Its funny.. you've finally explained something fully, albeit through way of personal example: hypocrisy.

Clifford Gillmore
05-21-2007, 07:23 AM
This coming from the guy who harps on a belt in Olympic lifting even though I've stated over and over again that this is not the take away of any of my posts. Its funny.. you've finally explained something fully, albeit through way of personal example: hypocrisy.

He is pretending to have characteristics/values he doesn't hold true? Riiiiiiight.





I'll continue drew's point. The belt is a tool used to coax core stability out of a lifter, worn one notch lose during the squat for example to press the abs out. Belts are also useful in 90%+ territory where blood is directed away from the internal organs and into the limbs, so you lose out on core stability where you need to crank the belt tight to get the same effect. But I shouldn't say anything, I'm not as gifted as some of the debaters here and I'll allow them to continue....

JHarris
05-21-2007, 07:41 AM
He is pretending to have characteristics/values he doesn't hold true? Riiiiiiight.

Well he is accusing me of doing something which he seems to think is bad. By accusing someone of a bad trait, you normally are implicitly stating that you yourself do not have the bad trait. However, he is also displaying the same trait.

Uh-oh, here comes the logic train... thus he has the pretense of not being a bad listener when he actually is. Since the definition of hypocrisy is a pretense of having morals, principles, beliefs, traits, etc. that one does not really posess, yes, I would say right.

WillKuenzel
05-21-2007, 08:02 AM
What the hell is ya'll's deal? Really?! A belt is a tool. Do you use a bench to lift weights? Sure, when it applies. Do you use straps? Sure, when it applies. Do you use chalk? Sure, when it applies. Lifting raw is a tool in itself. I don't use that often because it doesn't apply for me, more often than not. But that doesn't mean that I don't use it when it's needed.

A belt isn't the be-all-and-end-all nor is it the devil. Using one doesn't make you any less of a person and if it's not abused doesn't make you any weaker. I use one but I'll be damned if I don't have some f'n'ing strong abs. I don't lift raw. It's not a priority but again, I'll be damned if my raw lifts don't keep going up.

Really? Does it matter? You go lift something heavy, I'll go lift something heavy and as long as we're not damaging ourselves or others in the process it doesn't matter. I could care less how you lift. I wish you the best in your quest.

WillKuenzel
05-21-2007, 08:13 AM
Holy Bejebus! After really reading this thread and not just scanning for some valid points, I've come to realize that you are all just typing to see yourself speak. You're all saying the exact same thing but are nit-picking over... I can't even tell what ya'll are nit-picking over because you're all saying the same exact thing. Use a belt when it's needed.

Some of you train in instances where one is needed and others don't. Damn that's difficult. How can ya'll not see that you're agreeing with each other. All except for the Team Stocky weirdos that are raw-al'mighty. Their just being close minded.

JHarris, vdizenzo, the only thing I got out of both your posts was "wear a belt if you need it for your sport." I don't know what either of you are being so long winded about. I got the same thing from reading both your posts. JHarris, agrees to wear it if it improves the performance for that particular sport but doesn't believe it helps him. vdizenzo, wears one because it helps to hold the shirt in place and gives a little bit of a boost in the big three.

Do I believe that a belt is good? It's a tool in the tool box. I don't use a hammer to screw in a screw, but then again I don't use a screwdriver to hammer in a nail. I don't always use a belt on every exercise. Just when it's needed.

vdizenzo
05-21-2007, 08:47 AM
Well he is accusing me of doing something which he seems to think is bad. By accusing someone of a bad trait, you normally are implicitly stating that you yourself do not have the bad trait. However, he is also displaying the same trait.

Uh-oh, here comes the logic train... thus he has the pretense of not being a bad listener when he actually is. Since the definition of hypocrisy is a pretense of having morals, principles, beliefs, traits, etc. that one does not really posess, yes, I would say right.

Wow, professor Harris had a big bowl of brains this morning. It's no wonder you always have to feel like you are right. I must say I am very impressed that you kept this post under 5000 words. I usually never get past the first paragraph as I fall asleep from boredom.

vdizenzo
05-21-2007, 08:48 AM
I'll continue drew's point. The belt is a tool used to coax core stability out of a lifter, worn one notch lose during the squat for example to press the abs out. Belts are also useful in 90%+ territory where blood is directed away from the internal organs and into the limbs, so you lose out on core stability where you need to crank the belt tight to get the same effect. But I shouldn't say anything, I'm not as gifted as some of the debaters here and I'll allow them to continue....

Very well stated.

vdizenzo
05-21-2007, 08:51 AM
Don't listen to that nonsense. Wear the belt when you feel you need it. Strengthen your core by doing core exercises such as good mornings, pull throughs, weighted abs, etc. You'll be fine.



Home Yield this is what I said very early in the thread then JHarris started picking on me. He does not like me.

Paul Stagg
05-21-2007, 10:22 AM
A 79 post thread in a powerlifting forum about wearing a belt?

People who have never even lifted in a meet arguing with vinnie and Rhodes?

Wow.