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superhombre2k
06-11-2007, 11:40 PM
I'm 5'10", 202lbs, and I'm currently cutting. My macros are normally 220-250g protein, 150g carbs, and 90-100g fat. I get about 2500 calories a day... I try not to ever go over, and most of the time I'm usually a little under. I'm wondering how often I should bump up my carbohydrate intake to restore glycogen because I get cranky often and stuff. I did a little searching and it seems like I should do one each week and taking in a total of 500g carbs over the course of the weekend to fully restore my glycogen.

Yesterday, my macros were 206g protein, 268g carbohydrate and 109g fat. This morning, I woke up looking a little fuller and I still felt pretty lean. I'll probably do the same thing again today before resuming my normal diet again.

Now for my questions:
Are my carbohydrates low enough during the week to afford a carb up?
How often should I do it?
How many carbs should I be consuming to fill my tank?

I appreciate any help offered! Thanks!

Mr. D
06-12-2007, 12:09 AM
150g for 5 days is possibly low enough for a refeed.

I would schedule the refeed after a workout and make it very low fat. The leaner you are the more often you would need it (once every 7-10 days, if you are <15%).

Just experiment with it and see how your body responds, but keep fats out of the carb load.

superhombre2k
06-12-2007, 03:06 AM
You said to keep fats out of the carb load. That implies the carb load would be just one or two meals... shouldn't I be spreading it out the whole day, having higher carb meals? I can't cut fats out completely for a day or two, can I?

Con
06-12-2007, 07:07 AM
150g for 5 days is possibly low enough for a refeed.

Why would carbs determine whether or not he should be refeeding?


You said to keep fats out of the carb load. That implies the carb load would be just one or two meals... shouldn't I be spreading it out the whole day, having higher carb meals? I can't cut fats out completely for a day or two, can I?

You could....BUT, its easier to just workout late in the day and have 1-3 large carb based meals before going to sleep.

phatmike
06-12-2007, 09:58 AM
Why would carbs determine whether or not he should be refeeding?


Mostly because if your daily carb intake is already high, your body has less of a need for a carb load. Personally, I don't carb load unless I am below 100g of carbs a day, otherwise I have too much chance for spillover.

To the original poster, carb loads are tricky. What works for one person might not work for you. If you feel like your carb load is helping you reach your goals, keep it, otherwise, tweak it either by reducing your normal carb intake during the week, or lower the carbs you get in your load.

Edit: Generally, the lower your carbs are during the week, the more carbs you can get away with (without fat gain) during your carb load, due to being more depleted. Of course, the level of depletion also depends on your training style, i.e. more time under tension is good at depleting (as well as making you want to kill someone)

Con
06-12-2007, 10:15 AM
The primary purpose, as I see it, to refeed is to bump leptin levels and help keep people sane. The former is more important to keep dieting steady moving. Leptin will drop regardless of the macro composition of ones diet, so carb levels arent much of an issue.

ddegroff
06-12-2007, 04:56 PM
The primary purpose, as I see it, to refeed is to bump leptin levels and help keep people sane. The former is more important to keep dieting steady moving. Leptin will drop regardless of the macro composition of ones diet, so carb levels arent much of an issue.

I agree with you but 150g of carbs doesn't warrent a 500g refeed in my eyes.

People throw around the word refeed all the time and most would do fine with just eating a normal meal or a cheat meal. Refeed's are meant for those on a super low carb diet <50g.

OP: If your cranky from eating 150g of carbs try 30 or less. Stop making excuses. Just have a free meal after a good workout once a week and you'll be fine.

Mr. D
06-12-2007, 05:44 PM
I did some searching on Lyles board regarding this. As Con said, this type of refeed is due more to leptin levels and not glycogen levels.

With that in mind, a refeed of 3-5g/kg lbm of carbs after a workout over the course of 5 hours can serve a purpose. These meals would have limited or no fat.

superhombre2k
06-12-2007, 07:06 PM
I'm beginning to remember why I stopped coming to this board. You ask a question and you get as many cranky ******* responses as you do helpful ones, and most of the time the helpful responses don't quite answer your question so you have to ask more. And then there are the posters arguing with one another and still skirting the original poster's question.

Well, thanks to everyone who did help.

Con
06-13-2007, 06:56 AM
Debating is a very good way to learn.

You have to take the good responses with the bad.

Heres MY direct answers to your questions:


Are my carbohydrates low enough during the week to afford a carb up?
Answered already.



How often should I do it?
This depends on your bf%, the leaner you become, the more drastic and frequent refeeds must become.



How many carbs should I be consuming to fill my tank?
1.5-3 g/LBM is a baseline recommendation.

superhombre2k
06-13-2007, 02:06 PM
Okay. Would you mind describing what you do in terms of diet when you cut and how you determine when a refeed meal/day is necessary?

I understand as you get further into it, you have to change things a bit to maintain fat loss and prevent muscle loss, but I can never find any guidelines for when and by how much. I'm doing anything as drastic as UD2.0 or the Showtime Cut Diet right now.

I'm curious how different people do it because I know there is no single right way.

ddegroff
06-13-2007, 07:06 PM
Are my carbohydrates low enough during the week to afford a carb up?
How often should I do it?
How many carbs should I be consuming to fill my tank?

I appreciate any help offered! Thanks!

My bad, was in a crappy mood last night.

No I don't think your carbs are low enough to justify a "refeed". But I do feel a free meal or cheat meal would work perfectly. On lower carbs I always crave more carbs and they are really easy to get during a free meal. I would say that 500g would be too much.


206g protein, 268g carbohydrate and 109g fat

This isn't bad but I would say the fat is too high. Lower that a bit and add more carbs.

superhombre2k
06-14-2007, 01:13 AM
My bad, was in a crappy mood last night.

Low carbs? :)


No I don't think your carbs are low enough to justify a "refeed". But I do feel a free meal or cheat meal would work perfectly. On lower carbs I always crave more carbs and they are really easy to get during a free meal. I would say that 500g would be too much.

Sounds good! I have no problem eating a nice carb-heavy meal once in a while. I already know what I'll eat for it... a couple slices of eggplant breaded in soy flour and spelt, Barilla Plus pasta, and lots of sauce!

Thank you.

Oh wait... hmm... how often would you recommend? I feel like such a n00b asking these questions but I've never really been so specific with a cut. This week, I'm dropping to 125g carbohydrates daily while keeping my fats and protein roughly the same as it's been.

ddegroff
06-14-2007, 10:28 AM
Low carbs?

Haha, sadly no. I was making dinner, so I was way hungry, which is way worse. Lol


Oh wait... hmm... how often would you recommend? I feel like such a n00b asking these questions but I've never really been so specific with a cut. This week, I'm dropping to 125g carbohydrates daily while keeping my fats and protein roughly the same as it's been.

Once a week is probably fine. I would try to have it on a workout day.

Con
06-14-2007, 10:39 AM
I still think we disagree aout refeeding a bit ddeg, but then again I dont know much.

What would you say is a good idea for "refeeds"(know you use the term loosely) if carbs are not very low? Why wouldnt a nice high(er) carb day not help even if carbs are not at keto levels?

ddegroff
06-14-2007, 10:59 AM
I still think we disagree aout refeeding a bit ddeg, but then again I dont know much.

What would you say is a good idea for "refeeds"(know you use the term loosely) if carbs are not very low? Why wouldnt a nice high(er) carb day not help even if carbs are not at keto levels?

I'm the one that doesn't use it loosely. I feel refeeds are meant for people on keto diets. I think a good plan is a free meal. That can really be anything. A nice steak with a baked potato with a nice whole wheat roll etc. That would boost the carb count pretty good. Or even a sub from subway would up thost carbs like crazy.

I'm not sure if you read my past two posts because this is exactly what I was saying. Mr D's recommendation as well as your's work as far as how man grams per kg of lbm. But when you look at it, a good free meal will hit those #'s anyway.

smalls
06-14-2007, 06:16 PM
I think trying to define what necassary for "people" in general is a bad way to go about dieting. Refeeding is done for a lot of reasons, not just glycogen replenishment and not just feeling good. Both of which are reached differently by different people.

I can carb up for 48 hours on 3-4 times the carb intake I would normally have and be right back to my pre refeed weight the day after. Some people eat a cheat meal and gain 4 lbs that it takes the next 3 days to lose.

Unless your a competitive bodybuilder looking for the edge I really dont think it's going to make that big of a difference. Do what's comfortable, change things up and find what works for you.

Obviously discussing is great, and using other people is a guideline is almost necassary. But no one has THE answer. Take everything with a grain of salt and read as much as you can.

LouPac
06-14-2007, 07:02 PM
I agree with you but 150g of carbs doesn't warrent a 500g refeed in my eyes.

People throw around the word refeed all the time and most would do fine with just eating a normal meal or a cheat meal. Refeed's are meant for those on a super low carb diet <50g.

OP: If your cranky from eating 150g of carbs try 30 or less. Stop making excuses. Just have a free meal after a good workout once a week and you'll be fine.

I agree, no need for a refeed at all. Just have a really good cheat meal on the weekend.

superhombre2k
06-14-2007, 07:54 PM
I'll probably just stick to a free meal post-workout unless I drop my carbs down much lower, in which case I already have a whole diet laid out (The Showtime Cut Diet by Chuck Rudolph)

I'll probably experiment with which workout to do it after, but I'm thinking either squats or deadlifts.

ddegroff
06-14-2007, 09:31 PM
^Good plan, Squats always make me so hungry!

Con
06-15-2007, 11:50 AM
Hmm, dont wanna drag this on, but I just want to add something about the "Just have a cheat meal".

Some people like to know, more or less, what they are putting in their mouths. I know I feel much better if ive tracked what ive eaten(call it a refeed, call it piggin out, w/e) than when I simply eat a lot, and say "I earned it". This also ensures that I get enough of what I want(carbs) and less of what i dont want(generally fats).

Anyway, I think the guys question got answered, so alls well that ends well...

ddegroff
06-15-2007, 08:43 PM
Hmm, dont wanna drag this on, but I just want to add something about the "Just have a cheat meal".

Some people like to know, more or less, what they are putting in their mouths. I know I feel much better if ive tracked what ive eaten(call it a refeed, call it piggin out, w/e) than when I simply eat a lot, and say "I earned it". This also ensures that I get enough of what I want(carbs) and less of what i dont want(generally fats).

Anyway, I think the guys question got answered, so alls well that ends well...

I don't disagree with you at all. I like the word "free meal" (stole it from Lyle:cool: ). If it's a free meal most will track it. I have never tracked a cheat meal or atleast very few occasions. I have tracked every free meal on the other hand.