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roscoe24
07-04-2007, 05:44 AM
Hey guys and girls
I had been working solidly with wbb1 for about 4-5 months and managed to pack on about 15kgs, before being struck down with glandular fever and losing 10kgs, some would view this as a bad thing but to see myself down 10kgs, at least half+ of it being fat has given me a new realisation of what i was building hidden away whilst bulking lol.....anyways i have decided as soon as the doc ok's it i will be back in the gym on wbb1.1 (trying to learn as much before i do) but also wanna try keep some of the fat off through cardio and diet of course.Anyways theres my life story now for the question lol....

I like to run on the treadmills and am hoping to try some High intensity training but i have a genetic issue with the muscle on the front of my shin (not sure of name of the muscle) it is over developed for my leg size and i have poor circulation to it. I can only run for maybe 5mins before it becomes extremely sore and takes any slight enjoyment i get out of running lol...anyone got any ideas was thinking maybe rowing machine? will this help keep the weight off as efficiently as running?
Thanks in advance...
Roscoe

markdk86
07-04-2007, 06:40 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shin_splints

Al3X
07-04-2007, 07:06 AM
It's shin splints. You need stretch really well prior and after. Try to run on softer surfaces.

RedSpikeyThing
07-04-2007, 07:29 AM
shin splints suck. Ice your legs and take it easy for a while. I find that once you've had them they are very easy to aggrevate again.

markdk86
07-04-2007, 07:53 AM
It really has nothing to do with the surface, it has to do with your posture and form when you run. Correct that and the pain goes away.

roscoe24
07-04-2007, 08:52 AM
cheers for all your help guys

Relentless
07-04-2007, 09:42 AM
www.stridemechanics.com

buy the booklet they have there... one of the best things you can do to improve your running, reduce/eliminate pain, etc.

I tried some of the form corrections they suggest and immediately saw benefits to my comfort and pace when running.

Scooter
07-05-2007, 07:23 AM
The hard surface will definitely do it. Also, if you are running on your heels you pick your toes up and contract that muscle with each step. Try running more on the toes so that your calf muscle is doing more of the work.

mikex1337
07-05-2007, 07:28 AM
Is the rowing machine a good substitution for running? I work on it periodically and I feel that they are 2 completely different exercises.

Relentless
07-05-2007, 07:40 AM
The hard surface will definitely do it. Also, if you are running on your heels you pick your toes up and contract that muscle with each step. Try running more on the toes so that your calf muscle is doing more of the work.

On what source are you basing this advice?

My understanding (based on both personal experience and reading books like the one mentioned above, at stridemechanics.com) is that biomechanically, you are better off contacting the ground with a flat foot (as opposed to heel/toe strikes). Even the wikipedia article cited by markd86 discusses the fact that dorsiflection caused by overstriding is the key cause of the shin splints. NOT the hard surface. I will grant that a hard surface will ADD TO the problems caused by heel striking but it's not going to do it on its own if you run properly!

Running on your toes (I can only assume you mean the balls of your feet rather than toes, as we're talking about RUNNING not BALLET here) is asking for a world of hurt as you go on with this. For sprinting and running in sports (i.e. football) there are a lot of good reasons to run on your forefoot. My father-in-law used to run like that all the time. His knees and ankles are now totally shot because of the stress of long distance running on the balls of his feet.

Furthermore, "picking your toes up", which I can only assume means flexing your toes upward, would result in MORE heel strike and WORSE problems in terms of both running efficiency and heel striking.

Scooter, you seem to be dispensing terrible advice. It's possible I've misread or misunderstood what you've posted but as I read it now, it's both wrong and borderline dangerous. Either back up what you're saying with a credible source or stop offering advice.

garjagan
07-05-2007, 08:57 AM
the muscle at the front of the shin pulls the toes/foot up. So it's not really used when pushing off, it's used more when the foot lands. Try to land your front foot in a controlled and soft manner. I ran last night. 10mins in my right shin ached and I thought I had the same problem, but it went away as soon as I corrected my form and didnt let my front foot slam down - 50 mins in and I felt fine. Of course this is just me - you could have a serious problem so who knows in that case.

teenathlete3030
07-05-2007, 09:59 AM
For long distance running, I can understand not running on the balls of your feet, but rather striking the foot flat, or whatever is the biomechanically correct way, I don't know, I'm not a distance runner.

As for sprinting, we're taught to use dorsiflexion and we're taught to run on the balls of our feet. Your foot isn't dorsiflexed on footstrike, but rather while your foot's in the air. The foot makes a pawing motion across the ground propelling the body forward. The body is upright and the arms are bent at 90 degrees, swinging straight forward and back, not cross-body.

Last year I had shin splints. I was slow, ran toes out, and probably heel to toe. We got a good trainer at our school who teaches proper mechanics, I've gotten faster and had no problems since.

cphafner
07-05-2007, 10:47 AM
Try the elliptical machine. They are gentle on the shins.

bodybuilderam
07-05-2007, 11:45 PM
Is the rowing machine better than running? IMO, it is way better. It works you're whole body too. I like it. My dad is buying one, but it won't be for a while. Until then, I'll have to wait fro crew season to start again before I can use one.

Relentless
07-06-2007, 05:27 AM
For long distance running, I can understand not running on the balls of your feet, but rather striking the foot flat, or whatever is the biomechanically correct way, I don't know, I'm not a distance runner.

As for sprinting, we're taught to use dorsiflexion and we're taught to run on the balls of our feet. Your foot isn't dorsiflexed on footstrike, but rather while your foot's in the air. The foot makes a pawing motion across the ground propelling the body forward. The body is upright and the arms are bent at 90 degrees, swinging straight forward and back, not cross-body.

Last year I had shin splints. I was slow, ran toes out, and probably heel to toe. We got a good trainer at our school who teaches proper mechanics, I've gotten faster and had no problems since.


This stuff is absolutely right for sprinting. You WANT to be on the balls of your feel, dorsiflexed and leaning WAY forward.

If you use that same running motion for several miles, you'll eventually suffer. There are some elite distance runners that I've heard of that still run on their forefoot based on their history in track but they're the minority *and* I strongly suspect they'll all face some sort of knee issues as they age.

ectx
07-06-2007, 07:30 AM
Geeze guys...did you not read his post? the muscle running up front of his legs along his shins is overdeveloped. There's very little he can do to provide relief. 5 minutes of running kills him...on a treadmill! I suggest you talk to anthony on this forum.

For most people shin splints are a transient thing that can be improved with biomechanical modifications or by doing toe raises and "milking" your shins.

For a very small proportion of people you need a minor bit of surgery. Anthony had this done and it's allowed him to run etc. Basically the area becomes so swollen that you can't run and circulation to the lower half of your legs becomes impaired. This can actually be pretty serious if you're not careful. Talk to your doctor and see what he can do.

Anthony
07-06-2007, 07:42 AM
To continue on what ectx said, here are two questions to ask yourself:

1) do your feet go numb?
2) does the pain go away when you stop running (within 5-10 minutes)?

If you answer yes to both, I would suggest seeing a sports med doc and ask him about compartment syndrome. There are tests he can perform to rule it out. But if you do have it, it's a simple day surgery and within 1-3 weeks you should be able to run without issues.

OceanFit
07-06-2007, 08:10 AM
i have a genetic issue with the muscle on the front of my shin (not sure of name of the muscle) it is over developed for my leg size and i have poor circulation to it. I can only run for maybe 5mins before it becomes extremely sore and takes any slight enjoyment i get out of running

Is that something a medical doctor has told you?

If so I would think you can do something about it and would honestly talk to a physical therapist. Iím sure there are ways to work on or around this.

If not I would say you probably have a classic case of shin splints. They can be very painful. I have had shin splints myself and can agree they suck!

For me they didnít hurt once I was warmed up and actually going. But when I was just trying to walk around they would stop me in my tracks.

I am not a hard core runner or anything, but I have gone threw phases where I am running a lot. I have come up with some guide lines that have allowed me to run pain free. Maybe they can help you.

The easiest thing to do is get a new pair of running shoes. What kind of shoes are you wearing? This can make a huge difference. You could need more cushioning, high arch support, motion control ect ect. Go to a good running shoe store and talk with someone. A good guy can pick out your biggest problem just by the way you walk in the door. You can typically expect to spend about $75.00 - $ 100.00 on a good pair of shoes.

Next, how often are you running? What is your weekly mileage? The rule of thumb is to increase by 10% or less by each week. If you overload too fast your going to get injured, be it weight lifting, running, rowing, swimming, ect.

Maybe try running outside. Treadmills can be hard on you because they are such a reparative motion. The terrain you are running on doesnít vary. So you only use certain muscles in a certain way, over and over again. Over a course of time this can cause some real problems. So get outside! I personally like trail running. A varied and dynamic terrain can do wonders for your shins. Also dirt tends to be lower impact than concrete or the plate on a treadmill.

Stretching and icing are two biggies. Buy some small paper Dixie cups and freeze water in them. Peel away the paper like a banana peel and run the ice up and down your shin. Also make sure to stretch. Sometimes tightness in your calves can be the root of your evil. Tightness in your legs in general can lead to problems running some do a dynamic warm up (leg swings ect) before and then make time for some static stretches sometime during the day.

Bikkstah
07-06-2007, 08:33 AM
You need to stretch your calves well. A good stretch is to bend over and pull the toes of your foot towards you as you keep your heel straight, I love that stretch. Try to land on mid-foot as you run or land heel to toe.

For the record, I sprint while running on my toes because I have big calves and get more speed and endurance that way.

ectx
07-06-2007, 08:56 AM
Maybe try running outside. Treadmills can be hard on you because they are such a reparative motion. The terrain you are running on doesnít vary. So you only use certain muscles in a certain way, over and over again. Over a course of time this can cause some real problems. So get outside! I personally like trail running. A varied and dynamic terrain can do wonders for your shins. Also dirt tends to be lower impact than concrete or the plate on a treadmill.

One of the softest and most forgiving surfaces is a treadmill...most are cushioned and although the plate is hard the whole tread mill will give a little to absorb the impact instead of transfering all of it back up your legs and spine. This is why some people who train on treadmills add a 2-3% grade on a tread mill...it makes it hard enough to almost translate to street running. Also, not all dirt and off road running is necessarily softer. While I think it's an important and fun part of a good training regimen, I wouldn't recommend it to a newbie. You run differently off road and it requires a different level of attention to the terrain.



Stretching and icing are two biggies. Buy some small paper Dixie cups and freeze water in them. Peel away the paper like a banana peel and run the ice up and down your shin. Also make sure to stretch. Sometimes tightness in your calves can be the root of your evil. Tightness in your legs in general can lead to problems running some do a dynamic warm up (leg swings ect) before and then make time for some static stretches sometime during the day.

If swelling is the major issue and this doesn't go away icing will help, but it's not going to fix the problem. Sure the swelling will go down and you'll be able to run, but it'll be an issue the next time you go out running and it will never go away.

So..yes, go see your doc...if you can go see a sports doc. The procedure is quick and relatively painless and you'll be up and running pain free in a couple of weeks.

OceanFit
07-06-2007, 10:02 AM
While I think it's an important and fun part of a good training regimen, I wouldn't recommend it to a newbie. You run differently off road and it requires a different level of attention to the terrain.

Why not? The guy is new to wannabebig, not a mentally handicapped. I'm not saying to go out and bush wack at full speed. But a low level local hiking or mountain biking trail would be just fine. I don't think we are talking about a marthon runner here. Just a guy looking to get into shape. So I think trails a few days a week will be OK.



If swelling is the major issue and this doesn't go away icing will help, but it's not going to fix the problem. Sure the swelling will go down and you'll be able to run, but it'll be an issue the next time you go out running and it will never go away

I'm not saying icing will make the problem go away. I am saying it will help the pain go away untill he can sort out the real problem. Any physical therapist or AT is going to have him icing his shin.

schmitty199
07-06-2007, 11:54 AM
It really has nothing to do with the surface, it has to do with your posture and form when you run. Correct that and the pain goes away.

Although im far from an expert on the topic, ive had them before and I really question the logic behind this.

It seems to be directly related to the surface imo. Hard surfaces(like cement) cause shin splints much more then soft surfaces(like grass).

ectx
07-06-2007, 04:16 PM
Why not? The guy is new to wannabebig, not a mentally handicapped. I'm not saying to go out and bush wack at full speed. But a low level local hiking or mountain biking trail would be just fine. I don't think we are talking about a marthon runner here. Just a guy looking to get into shape. So I think trails a few days a week will be OK.

because a tread mill will be easier on his joints and not pose the challenges of a trail and alternating terrain. Don't get me wrong...I love trail running and loathe treadmills but also understand their place.





I'm not saying icing will make the problem go away. I am saying it will help the pain go away untill he can sort out the real problem. Any physical therapist or AT is going to have him icing his shin.

perhaps, but they'll also be working to eliminate the problem and from the looks of it, unless he has some severe biomechanical impedement, he's going to need to go under the knife. Otherwise it'll be run 5-10 minutes...ice down 15...rinse and repeat...which just doesn't seem like an option to me.

biggiesmalls16
07-06-2007, 09:07 PM
heat before, ice after. run on the balls of your feet. the surface does make a difference, i never get it when running on grass, but on a sidewalk i do get it...

Al3X
07-07-2007, 07:10 AM
What type of feet do you have? flat, narrow, wide.. ?

I'm flat footed, and I had shin splints. My PA told me that it was due to the shoes that I had (not flat footed shoes). Most flat foot people roll their feet from the outside to inside or reverse order (PA). With that being said, after your have correct foot wear, it's either the way you walk, posture, stretching, run style, or the surface. There could also be medical reasons - Prior broken bone, sprained, leg length, osgood-schlatter's disease, knee ligaments - acl/pcl...

On your run style it could be the stride you take. If your running to hard and overstride your putting more pressure on your heel which reverts the pressure upwards and its a chain reaction.

roscoe24
07-07-2007, 08:16 AM
Ok got a lot of posts to reply to lol
First up i base my "genetic" issue on the fact my dad has the exact same problem although he was never into getting cut for it to bother him.I don't really run much mostly because of this problem (used to be into sprinting for fun but lost almost all my power when almost died of viral phnemonia and a collapsed lung at 16)

Sounds like i might have to hit the doctors Anthony, i only posted because i went to a special shop where they film you running and give you a shoe that helps to correct your running form and these still havent stopped/helped the problem.

I'll give a more detailed explanation.....I'll do a few mins warm up, stretch then jump on the treadmill withing 5-10mins the front of my shin aches (best way i can think to explain it is it feels like the pump from doing bench press but in the front of my shin with a side order of pain lol) then when i jump off its gone pretty quickly, as for the numb feeling sometimes when i'm running it feels like my foot just goes dead if thats related at all.

Got to go back for blood tests in a few weeks to check my liver isn't dieing from the glandular fever (not allowed to hit the gym for a month or 2 anyway)
will ask the doc then,
Thanks for all your help guys much appreciated
Roscoe

Anthony
07-07-2007, 03:27 PM
Roscoe, DEFINITELY get in to see a sports med doc and ask for a pressure test to determine if this is compartment syndrome. Sounds very similar to what I had ... I'd run for a few minutes, extreme pain, feet would feel like cement blocks flopping around, and I'd have to stop. A few minutes after stopping, no issues.