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View Full Version : Getting Big on Maintenance Calories Possible?



Whoshot
07-04-2007, 10:12 PM
Alright I have searched but I was not able to find what I wanted. I have currently been lifting about 3 months now. Im 6ft tall and weigh aprox 167 pounds. I am not sure my BF% due to me not ordering a caliper yet but I would guess it would be in the low teens. Now what I have been wondering is if I continued to eat my maintenance calories for maybe another 9 months would I be able to see significant gains in muscle? More or less is is possible to turn what I currently have into mostly muscle? Some people on here have said before that 160-170 pounds for someone who is 6ft is on the skinny side but honestly I do not look skinny...I look medium I would say. I have been thinking about starting a clean slow bulk but before I did that I just wanted to see what you guys would say about this topic. Or is bulking the only option? Also, when someone says that they want to maintain the their current weight but drop BF% how do they go about doing this....what I mentioned? Thanks.

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-04-2007, 10:56 PM
No, you're not going to get big on maintenance. You can go through body recomposition and lean out if your diet is spot on, but eating above maintenance is what gets you big.

Whoshot
07-04-2007, 11:09 PM
No, you're not going to get big on maintenance. You can go through body recomposition and lean out if your diet is spot on, but eating above maintenance is what gets you big.

So with a spot on diet and a good routine I could become leaner and better looking but not necessarly bigger?

sCaRz*Of*PaiN
07-04-2007, 11:19 PM
^^

Yes. :) But it's pretty dang hard to gain muscle while cutting fat. It can be done, but not at a very quick rate and your genetics come into play here. At your height and weight I'd suggest bulking above maintenance for a while to pack on some muscle and then cut the fat later on to reveal all your hard work.

What are your goals?

Built
07-05-2007, 12:43 AM
It looks like his goals are to slowly recompose. Whoshot, are you tracking your diet now?

Whoshot
07-05-2007, 11:44 AM
It looks like his goals are to slowly recompose. Whoshot, are you tracking your diet now?

Yes I am

Jeffreyk
07-05-2007, 01:58 PM
slow and steady bro....keep your cals low.......just at maint...train hard, eat and rest...pefrecto!

Con
07-05-2007, 02:23 PM
slow and steady bro....keep your cals at levels to support gains.......at non ******ed levels...train hard, eat and rest...pefrecto!

I changed two minor details, but thats just my take.

Jeffreyk
07-05-2007, 02:33 PM
You did whatr? Nevermind,,,not importtn as long as you kow what to do......just dont fall into the 40000k trap...YOU DONT NEED 1.4 THAT MANY!! TRUST ME....I'm gowning, on Hrt, with a fast metabolism and nor cardio at about 1-2lbs a week but who the hell cares, Im getting tronger everything in!!!

Hatred
07-05-2007, 02:51 PM
Gowning? On HRT?

Getting big on maintenance?

Let me put it like this.

Can you build a brick wall 8 ft tall and 10ft long with only enough bricks and mortar to build a 6 ft wall that's 8 ft long?

Of course you can't. You can't build something from nothing. :idea:

Steven.Gaskell
07-07-2007, 08:51 AM
I say yes, based on my own personal experience of course...but like the other person say, it's gonna take a while...it does, i haven't gained much in 6-7 months, but also haven't got fatter. gotten bigger but not fatter, just takes hell of a long time bro ..

Think about it, if you can bench press 150lbs for 9-10 reps eating maintanence, then can do 300lbs for same, over time, u really think you'll still be the same size? i say if your getting stronger and training like a bodybuilder, you'll get there .

Believe in yourself!

Unholy
07-07-2007, 08:55 AM
Strength does not necessarily translate to size AT ALL. Strength is Neural adaption more then anything.

Steven.Gaskell
07-07-2007, 09:00 AM
So how do i get bigger, by getting weaker? diet is important too, but key is getting bigger, not fatter...which is what i do..just wishing the guy good luck. think positive is the way to do it


it's my belief..when i am training, and getting stronger, and train like a bodybuilder i will get bigger..your using your body, and it's responding ..so it's a priority to build muscle, if my nutrition /calories weren't adaqute i wouldnt keep on getting consistent results and bigger..your not doing something where realatively less muscle mass is required ie. running a marathon.. im not starving, so growth occurs. it works for me anyway, just takes really long..but easy to maintain


Some of this might sound like bull**** and probably is but it works for me....this guy just needs to find what works for him too

RedSpikeyThing
07-07-2007, 10:17 AM
I say yes, based on my own personal experience of course...but like the other person say, it's gonna take a while...it does, i haven't gained much in 6-7 months, but also haven't got fatter. gotten bigger but not fatter, just takes hell of a long time bro ..

Think about it, if you can bench press 150lbs for 9-10 reps eating maintanence, then can do 300lbs for same, over time, u really think you'll still be the same size? i say if your getting stronger and training like a bodybuilder, you'll get there .


by definition you can't gain weight on maintenance cals. If you didn't gain weight and "got bigger", then either you gained fat, which is less dense than muscle, or you leaned out, which can give you the appearance of being bigger.
And yes, I do think you can stay the same size while increasing strength. Powerlifters do it all the time.

Steven.Gaskell
07-07-2007, 10:54 AM
by definition you can't gain weight on maintenance cals. If you didn't gain weight and "got bigger", then either you gained fat, which is less dense than muscle, or you leaned out, which can give you the appearance of being bigger.
And yes, I do think you can stay the same size while increasing strength. Powerlifters do it all the time.

100% true! but powerlifters train not like a bodybuilder. so training style is very important, otherwise the 1000lb+ deadlifters should be absolute mammoths compared to the big pro bodybuilders. so obviously not JUST about strength alone. but i know if i can barbell curl 100lb for 6-8 with perfect form then eventually can do 140 or 150lb, with same form i will have bigger arms. otherwise i could it without even training or very little..and i can't

RedSpikeyThing
07-07-2007, 03:30 PM
100% true! but powerlifters train not like a bodybuilder. so training style is very important, otherwise the 1000lb+ deadlifters should be absolute mammoths compared to the big pro bodybuilders. so obviously not JUST about strength alone. but i know if i can barbell curl 100lb for 6-8 with perfect form then eventually can do 140 or 150lb, with same form i will have bigger arms. otherwise i could it without even training or very little..and i can't

the 1000lb+ deadlifters are absolute mammoths compared to the bodybuilders, they just have a high bf %. I would venture to say they have more muscle mass than a BBer, they just don't show it.

Unholy
07-07-2007, 07:47 PM
the 1000lb+ deadlifters are absolute mammoths compared to the bodybuilders, they just have a high bf %. I would venture to say they have more muscle mass than a BBer, they just don't show it.

Definitely possible, Some of the guys I lifted with were in the 307 weight class, sure they were 20-25% BF but that still means 240lbs+ of LBM at 5'7" 5'8"

HighSchoolGuy
07-08-2007, 12:33 PM
This got me thinking. RIGHT NOW, my maintenance is 2500, but as I get older, doesn't my metabolism as well as my needed maintenance cals go DOWN? Meaning I can actually get bigger by eating maintenance if I keeping eating and wait until I get older?

Mr. D
07-08-2007, 01:11 PM
This got me thinking. RIGHT NOW, my maintenance is 2500, but as I get older, doesn't my metabolism as well as my needed maintenance cals go DOWN? Meaning I can actually get bigger by eating maintenance if I keeping eating and wait until I get older?

You are still in high school. I wouldnt worry about that for MANY MANY years. At least another decade.

If you keep adding LBM, then your maintenance cals will go up.

Bako Lifter
07-08-2007, 02:27 PM
Somebody explain how your muscles learn to recruit more fibers faster which makes them "stronger" without necessarily making them larger. :nod:

Unholy
07-08-2007, 04:32 PM
Neural adaption. Your CNS adjusts to heavy loads. Hence why powerlifters train heavy with low reps on ME days. Also do a lot of lockouts to get used to holding the heavy weight.

Holto
07-08-2007, 07:36 PM
Somebody explain how your muscles learn to recruit more fibers faster which makes them "stronger" without necessarily making them larger. :nod:

Your brain tells your muscles to contract by conveying a neurological impulse to the motor units that control the individual fibers. Your body makes these motor units become more efficient at doing their job by developing a motor program which is stored in your motor cortex. This is why you actually gain strength faster by not changing your routine.

RedSpikeyThing
07-08-2007, 07:50 PM
This is why you actually gain strength faster by not changing your routine.

Why does Westside preach variety?

ShockBoxer
07-09-2007, 06:49 AM
Why does Westside preach variety?

To prevent this adaptation and compensate by adding raw physical mass?

Stackattack
07-09-2007, 07:32 AM
Having consumed maintanance for the past 4 months. I have come to the conclusion that its an efficient way to get no where at all.

Unholy
07-09-2007, 07:42 AM
Stack, whose legs are those in your avatar? Lavrone?

ShockBoxer
07-09-2007, 07:53 AM
Having consumed maintanance for the past 4 months. I have come to the conclusion that its an efficient way to get no where at all.

Having consumed maintenance for the past year, I concur.

RedSpikeyThing
07-09-2007, 11:35 AM
To prevent this adaptation and compensate by adding raw physical mass?

Holto says you gain strebgth faster by using the same routine. In the case of Westside, this is a good thing.

BigBossMan
07-09-2007, 01:57 PM
So I am a little confused.....I have always read that changing routine .is a good way to force muscles to grow. Is this correct. It seems to make sense that not changing your routine would make you get stronger faster becuase you are doing the same thing all the time your cns like already stated would 'adapt' to the weight and the movement....so the conclusion I am drawing is to gain the most strenghth do the same routine week in/week out.

to gain the most muscle mass-change it up?

Stackattack
07-09-2007, 05:40 PM
Stack, whose legs are those in your avatar? Lavrone?
Platz.

Hatred
07-09-2007, 06:05 PM
I say yes, based on my own personal experience of course...but like the other person say, it's gonna take a while...it does, i haven't gained much in 6-7 months, but also haven't got fatter. gotten bigger but not fatter, just takes hell of a long time bro ..

Think about it, if you can bench press 150lbs for 9-10 reps eating maintanence, then can do 300lbs for same, over time, u really think you'll still be the same size? i say if your getting stronger and training like a bodybuilder, you'll get there .

Believe in yourself!

You keep on believin. Hopefully all that belief will fill up those muscles cause food apparently isn't going to and last I checked muskles weren't filled with air.

Hatred
07-09-2007, 06:08 PM
So I am a little confused.....I have always read that changing routine .is a good way to force muscles to grow. Is this correct. It seems to make sense that not changing your routine would make you get stronger faster becuase you are doing the same thing all the time your cns like already stated would 'adapt' to the weight and the movement....so the conclusion I am drawing is to gain the most strenghth do the same routine week in/week out.

to gain the most muscle mass-change it up?

changing your routine? for most people they just aren't eating enough. This is the cure for what ails most "Plateaus" either that or said lifter just isn't pushing hard enough to make progress.


And this is a thread about gaining SIZE.
You can recomposition. not likely. but you can. that would be a result of a combination of a surplus and deficit shift due to work increse decrease most likely...so no. maintenance is just that. to keep you right the hell where you are at.

smalls
07-09-2007, 06:26 PM
Having consumed maintanance for the past 4 months. I have come to the conclusion that its an efficient way to get no where at all.

Exactly, which is what I have told people on this site forever, but nobody wants to listen. Unless your an overly fat, unconditioned newbie to the world of engaging your body in pretty much any physical activity then trying to put on any real muscle while eating at maintenance is a waste of your time (unless your strictly training for health benefits).



So I am a little confused.....I have always read that changing routine .is a good way to force muscles to grow. Is this correct. It seems to make sense that not changing your routine would make you get stronger faster becuase you are doing the same thing all the time your cns like already stated would 'adapt' to the weight and the movement....so the conclusion I am drawing is to gain the most strenghth do the same routine week in/week out.

to gain the most muscle mass-change it up?

Making your muscles go above and beyond on a consisentent basis and then giving them the raw materials and time they take to hypertrophy is a great way to "force muscles to grow" people say stupid **** like "change your routine often to shock growth into your muscles" for two main reasons. The same reasons that people talk about getting bigger and leaner on maintenance calories, because either they dont know any better and/or because THEY WANT IT TO BE TRUE. Everyone thinks there is a secret, something they are missing, a trick or a key that unlocks the growth they see in other people.

Most people here know better. Bodybuilding is no different than anything else in this world, PRINCIPLES not secrets or tricks are they keys to success.

Holto
07-09-2007, 08:25 PM
Why does Westside preach variety?

In what context?

From a pure physiology standpoint you will become more efficient at a movement by repeating it. Alternating routines is probably the most counterproductive way to train.

I beleive westside has systems where you are doing speed work alternated with ME work using the same movements.

I'd need to know more about what exactly they vary.

Again, strictly from the standpoint of developing a motor program variety does not give any benefit. A motor program is much like a computer program in that it is a series of instructions. (I just threw that in there because I know you code)

When I first his this site many years ago this was probably the most important thing I learned.

RedSpikeyThing
07-09-2007, 09:22 PM
When I first his this site many years ago this was probably the most important thing I learned.

Interesting. For some reason this entire concept never crossed my mind. So in terms of form and technique, repition = good. "Practice makes perfect" or, more accurately, "practice makes permenent". In terms of hypertrophy, variety = good.
I know there's a piece of the puzzle I'm missing here because if it was as simple as "do lots of squats and you'll be strong", there wouldn't be programs like Westside. I guess it has to do with the fact you're also trying to build muscle while building strength?

PS Why didn't you come out to the Toronto meet?

Pers102
07-10-2007, 01:14 AM
You keep on believin. Hopefully all that belief will fill up those muscles cause food apparently isn't going to and last I checked muskles weren't filled with air.

hey, this is me Steven.Gaskell. i screwed my other account

but any way, no no no, i dont need to believe...i use the mirror just to gauge my progress. sorry it doesnt work for u, but for me it does .. im sorry you can't come to grips with that

are you telling me that when i put a inch on my legs in 1 yr, that im ''believin'' it to be true? :D

Anyway, good luck! :bow:

Mr. D
07-10-2007, 01:31 AM
hey, this is me Steven.Gaskell. i screwed my other account

but any way, no no no, i dont need to believe...i use the mirror just to gauge my progress. sorry it doesnt work for u, but for me it does .. im sorry you can't come to grips with that

are you telling me that when i put a inch on my legs in 1 yr, that im ''believin'' it to be true? :D

Anyway, good luck! :bow:
Excerpt from Member Guidelines (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/guidelines.php)
"9. Multiple accounts - One account per person."

Good luck and GodSpeed!

SpecialK
07-10-2007, 01:31 AM
hey, this is me Steven.Gaskell. i screwed my other account

but any way, no no no, i dont need to believe...i use the mirror just to gauge my progress. sorry it doesnt work for u, but for me it does .. im sorry you can't come to grips with that

are you telling me that when i put a inch on my legs in 1 yr, that im ''believin'' it to be true? :D

Anyway, good luck! :bow:

If you are gaining weight, be it fat or muscle, then you are by definition eating above maintenance.

Maintenance is defined as the amount of calories you need to consume to stay right at your current weight.

Holto
07-10-2007, 10:38 AM
Interesting. For some reason this entire concept never crossed my mind. So in terms of form and technique, repetition = good.

Yes. I should have mentioned that your body only develops motor programs for movements it performs frequently.



"Practice makes perfect" or, more accurately, "practice makes permenent".

Absolutely. In fact, all the little set up movements can improve a motor program. The way you step up to the equipment, the way you unrack a barbell, it all is part of developing a good motor program. Watch powerlifters and all the rituals they use.



In terms of hypertrophy, variety = good.

A big NO here. Being stronger and lifting heavier stimulates more hypertrophy. Variety is something preached in Muscle & Fitness. The faster you gain strength on compound lifts the faster you gain mass.



I know there's a piece of the puzzle I'm missing here because if it was as simple as "do lots of squats and you'll be strong"

I believe it is just that simple. The way people train today is heavily influenced by magazines and personal trainer lore. If it was as easy as picking a compound lift for all your major muscle groups people wouldn't need trainers etc. (& it is that easy)

The media uses fear to increase consumption of products and services. Fear that you are not training effectively, or changing your routine enough, fear that you aren't getting Xyx2.0 amino acids.

I've never met anyone that has done lots of squats that wasn't strong.



PS Why didn't you come out to the Toronto meet?

Chronic pain syndrome had me sidelined for 8 months.