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View Full Version : Refeeds, thyroid, and Hmmmm.



aeckhardt
03-03-2002, 10:24 AM
Recently Blood & Iron posted this link to a thread in his journal:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=H...0onr.com&rnum=8

What he wanted us to read was this part:

quote:
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Lyle McDonald on MFW 1/15/2002
My conclusion, that even I'm not happy with: leptin isn't workeable enough with current technologies (short of injection) to do what I want it to do. You simply can't get it high enough without getting fat to get the kind of repartitioning effect I was hoping for. Any anabolic response from refeeding is less from leptin and more from simply the re/overfeeding.
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And then something interesting happened last night. All week+ I have been eating very high protein, medium fat, and low carbs with the carbs only coming postworkout. Last night due to circumstances, I had to eat a large plate of spaghetti with breadsticks, ceasar salad, and some juice. I figured what the hell, I'll be fine, this will just be good for me. But the only problem was that latter that night I was going to be in an atmosphere with my shirt off and I felt that by that time I would be bloated.

Once I reached the event I found that I wasn't bloated and I looked great from all the carbs filling my glycogen stores. Plus, the non bloatage might be due to the low level of hydration because there was no water to drink. SO, for about 4 hours I was dancing and I guess we could consider this low volume cardio. Then I came home, had some cottage cheese(slow digesting protein) and awoke this morning to find that I was looking very lean, almost leaner thatn before as if I had burnt some fat.

So this brings us to my thoughts on the whole situation. Maybe, considering I was hovering around maintenance calories from the large dinner I did not eat to much. All the food sparked my metabolism and al the carbs sparked my thyroid. Then couple that on top of some low volume cardio while fasting after the meal for about 6-7 hours with a then slow digesting protein to not interfere with fat burining and then another 8 hours of fasting from sleep. And you've got yourself burnt fat with saved muscle. What is interesting is that I was nowhere near normal refeed levels or length of time but yet I still burned some fat.So maybe refeeds just spark your metabolism, specifically your throid from conversion of T's.

Thoughts on all of this?

Mr.Buttcheeks
03-03-2002, 12:11 PM
yeah i kinda feel that the refeeds previosly recommended of somethin like 50 percent above maintance or whatever is a little drastic. my diet is 400 protien 60 carbs 60 fats not exact numbers but ruffly, so when i carb up i drop the protien down to 250 or 300 and add about 100 to 200 carbs post workout that seems to work better ill keep ya posted

Marcel
03-03-2002, 05:34 PM
Hmmmm...I think your theory sounds pretty good.

Par Deus
03-03-2002, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by aeckhardt
Recently Blood & Iron posted this link to a thread in his journal:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=H...0onr.com&rnum=8

What he wanted us to read was this part:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lyle McDonald on MFW 1/15/2002
My conclusion, that even I'm not happy with: leptin isn't workeable enough with current technologies (short of injection) to do what I want it to do. You simply can't get it high enough without getting fat to get the kind of repartitioning effect I was hoping for. Any anabolic response from refeeding is less from leptin and more from simply the re/overfeeding.
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I think part of why he may have come to this decision is that they use longer, more moderate refeeds. I have definitely seen repartitioning with my experiments.

Of course, none of us know what our leptin level really is, because it is not like you can go and just have a blood test done at this point, but what I have noticed in regards to appetite, energy levels, fat loss, etc, is indeed consistent with maintenence of leptin levels.

Par Deus
03-03-2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by aeckhardt
So maybe refeeds just spark your metabolism, specifically your throid from conversion of T's.

Thoughts on all of this?


If it was just about thyroid, you could just pop some t3 -- but, this does not work because it will cause msucle loss. t3 is just a minor player. Leptin injections in lean animals cause total loss of visible bodyfat with no loss of muscle.

aeckhardt
03-03-2002, 09:46 PM
Ok,

MWB
03-04-2002, 03:38 AM
Par, I'm looking forward to your next article. Any estimate on when it will be up?

Wizard
03-04-2002, 03:58 AM
T3 can kiss my a$$.
It is not what you can expect from a fat burner because it is not a fat burner.It is a super metabolic enhancer and though it somehow promotes anabolism, it can dramatically reduce your muscle mass. I would not touch it again.

This is why you must try to figure out how you can make leptin work with you and this is gonna happen only through personal experiments. The exploring of leptin actions is now in its first steps, so we can't give specific suggestions.

The question is why we're still in this stage while I can remember that some years ago, there were some great scientists that claimed leptin to be the next permanent fat loss miracle.

Par Deus
03-04-2002, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by MWB
Par, I'm looking forward to your next article. Any estimate on when it will be up?


Shooting for the 15th for the next issue.

Par Deus
03-04-2002, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Wizard

The question is why we're still in this stage while I can remember that some years ago, there were some great scientists that claimed leptin to be the next permanent fat loss miracle.


I touch on this in my article. Basically, it is because obese people have leptin resistance, not low leptin levels, thus leptin injections would not work.

They would work quite well in lean people, but that is of no interest to pharmaceutical companies.

In general, the minds produced by academia are not too adept at actually thinking, so even though thousands of studies built up, almost no one really had a true understanding of it, so they kept doing the same stupid ****.

They are starting to come around a bit, but I am still amazed at some of things they say and conclusions they come up with.

That, combined with the fact that they are mainly interested in the obese, means there are a number of things I would like to see studied that have not been studied and may never be.