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View Full Version : Calorie Deficit or Calorie Surplus? (That is the question)



grassassassin
07-22-2007, 05:18 PM
Coming off of a lay off. Right now I'm 5'10 and 166. Body fat is at 21% so says my cheap scale. So do I drop some fat first? Wouldn't be too bad considering my off diet. Or do I clean up the diet and start lifting hard. I've heard that at first you'll be able to accomplish both, muscle gain and fat lose. If that is true, then the answer should be simple. But I'd just like to get some other opinions. Thanks.

Unholy
07-22-2007, 05:22 PM
Eat around maintenance, clean up the diet, lift heavy, and rest plenty.

grassassassin
07-22-2007, 05:25 PM
Do you like more weight and less reps or more reps with less weight? By the way I'm just starting again after a break.

Outshine
07-22-2007, 07:37 PM
Do you like more weight and less reps or more reps with less weight? By the way I'm just starting again after a break.

Normal weight with normal reps. High reps/less weight doesn't burn fat. It just builds less muscle.

Like Unholy said, eat at maintenance, and eat clean. Then just workout as though it's you're goal to gain muscle.

The rest will take care of itself.

Mr. D
07-22-2007, 09:39 PM
Do you like more weight and less reps or more reps with less weight? By the way I'm just starting again after a break.

Why is the first question relevant?Please elaborate and walk us through your train of thought.

IZWAR
07-23-2007, 12:11 AM
Why is the first question relevant?Please elaborate and walk us through your train of thought.

same ^^^

grassassassin
07-23-2007, 03:59 PM
I've read that when you are just starting that you get better gains by doing less reps with heavier weight. I wasn't sure if others feel the same. on the flip side of the coin, I didn't know if by doing less weight with more reps and moving from one set to the next quickly would be more beneficial for fat loss. Just my thoughts.

grassassassin
07-23-2007, 04:01 PM
By the way it wasn't better gains, it was the same amount of gain with less reps

BigBossMan
07-24-2007, 08:04 AM
I've read that when you are just starting that you get better gains by doing less reps with heavier weight. I wasn't sure if others feel the same. on the flip side of the coin, I didn't know if by doing less weight with more reps and moving from one set to the next quickly would be more beneficial for fat loss. Just my thoughts.

I guess it depends if you are training for hypertrophy or strength! The only way doing less weight with more reps and moving quickly from set to set would be more beneficial for fat loss is that it might burn more calories. I have read that low weight high reps is ideal for maintaining lean mass on a cut.....but once again it depends on your goals.

Unholy
07-24-2007, 08:17 AM
I have read that low weight high reps is ideal for maintaining lean mass on a cut.....but once again it depends on your goals.

That couldn't be further from the truth.

BigBossMan
07-24-2007, 03:26 PM
That couldn't be further from the truth.

Why?

Unholy
07-24-2007, 03:39 PM
Because low volume + heavy weight spares LBM. It's a common misconception though.

BigBossMan
07-24-2007, 03:46 PM
"a typical dieting practice has been to lower the weights
on all exercise and use higher reps to 'cut' up the muscle. This is a
fallacy and is about the worst thing a natural lifter can do while dieting.
Heavy weights are necessary to maintain muscle mass while dieting. What
should be loweredis training volume (i.e. number of total sets and days of
training) as overtraining becomes more likely on restricted calories.
This point can't be too emphasized: while dieting for fat loss, it is
almost impossible to gain muscle so don't knock yourself out trying. The
best a natural can do is keep all the hard earned muscle he or she has
built through heavy training. To keep that muscle, heavy training must be
maintained, just at a lower volume"
-Lyle Mcdonald

Unholy
07-24-2007, 03:48 PM
Yes you just proved my point......

BigBossMan
07-24-2007, 04:24 PM
It doesn't 'prove' anything unless you believe what the author said. I didn't say I believed it I just said I read it.....I have also read the opposite...but I believe that this(Lyle Mcdonald's) is referring to a severly restricted carb diet....the glycogen depletion(high rep low weight) model I read about was based on someone not cutting by what I believe was called "ketosis"...basically not doing low carb cutting just low cal cutting.....apples and oranges I guess.

BigBossMan
07-24-2007, 04:31 PM
carb cycle diets usually combine the two....with heavy lifing days on no carb days and glycogen depletion before carb loading....I believe

Unholy
07-24-2007, 04:34 PM
You should do some more reading in that case. I'm not trying to sound like a dick but it seems you base a lot of your advice around tid bits of anecdotal evidence and reading who knows what.

The high rep low weight program you are describing for glycogen depletion is part of a few diets, including PSMF and UD 2.0 among other ketogenic diets. Glycogen depletion is used ON low carb diets. You have it mixed up a bit.

How it works is.

Your body has stored glycogen, once you deplete your stores, usually done through a series of high rep low weight full body workouts, during a low carb phase known as depletion. After a few days the subject does a refeed followed by a low rep high weight power workout. This is pretty much one of the only times during a cut that you would want to do low weight high rep training.

Most people do not cut using said method. On a low calorie high protein diet that most people use to cut intelligently low volume, low rep, high weight strength training is definitely optimal.

Normally I wouldn't bother with all this because most people that post crap are not worth my time. You seem to be thirsty for knowledge so I'm just reasoning with you.

Do a search for "Low volume heavy training on cut" you should get a bunch of good threads where this has been discussed to death. Or if you wanna humor me, make a thread asking if High rep low weight is better for preserving LBM on a cut compared to High weight low rep/volume training. I bet there will be a unanimous agreement for one of them.

Unholy
07-24-2007, 04:36 PM
carb cycle diets usually combine the two....with heavy lifing days on no carb days and glycogen depletion before carb loading....I believe

Yup, this part is correct. And this is one of the few times where high rep low weight training should be incorporated into a cutting routine.

Unholy
07-24-2007, 04:40 PM
Oh and if you look hard enough you can find someone advocating almost anything as far as training and routine are concerned. Its your job as an educated reader to pick our the crap and absorb the good stuff.

BigBossMan
07-25-2007, 08:31 AM
:disagree:
Oh and if you look hard enough you can find someone advocating almost anything as far as training and routine are concerned. Its your job as an educated reader to pick our the crap and absorb the good stuff.

I agree...I wasn't trying to argue with you at all. But for someone like this person who is at 21% bodyfat if he cuts he probably won't lose much LBM unless he does a severe caloric deficit. It is my understanding that fatter individuals lose more fat and less lean body mass than leaner individuals. You are right I am a newbie to weightlifting and very thirsty for knowledge and take all advice given/read with a grain of salt. I wasn't trying to give the OP advice to do high rep low weight cut as I just did a cut and did quite the opposite. I was just making conversation. And no I don't think you were being a dick just trying to make sure the new guy doesn't get steered in the wrong direction by someone who doesn't know what the hell is talking about!!
:disagree: