The debate is this.If your going to a gym and busting your ass,and blowin off your friends and girlfriends,etc to do it,then it better be for a reason other than the way you look.If thats the case,you have severe insecurities and mental problems.If your measuring your bodyparts or staring in a mirror all the time,your basically a little girl.Chicks stare in the mirror and worry about their waistline and how they look in a tight shirt.Not men.Not real men.The process of building muscle and the goal of adding new muscle is gauged by strength and size.Thats progress.Not if you can see another ab.Or if the skinny blonde girl wants to **** you.I cant believe Brad ****ing Pitt was even mentioned on this form.Who watches a Brad Pitt movie and says"he looks good".I'll tell you who...a chick!If you look in a mirror and say to yourself"Im fat,I cant see my ab's" or " I cant see my veins when I get a pump",you need to go out and buy a dress right now.Pathetic.
Its fueled by the gym and everything we see in the fitness world. Every muscle mag, protein shake, supplements etc always show a cut up guy with abs, its what the media has lead people to think sexy is. When I was younger I was known as the white pole, tall and skinny as hell I was 6'2 and 180 and girls would joke about how skinny I was all the time, sure I had abs but no matter how much time I spent in the gym I didnt build size. Finally I sat down and learned how to EAT. And I mean I ate like crazy and finally saw gains. Now Im back in the gym hard again, eating a lot and people who I havent seen since high school are just like holy crap did you get big, like huge big. And all the kids I remember being "big" in high school are still the same size, working on their abs like crazy.
As for the guys who want to have abs on here, I dont think anyone said that you should go kill yourself if you want abs, its more that people feel that only way you are in good shape is if you have abs. Then guys starve themselves, count calories all day, run tons of miles and they arent strong. My boyfriend is my age and we both started out again hard at the gym a year ago. He takes more supplements, all sorts of diffrent creatines and constantly wants to train with me because I have put on so much more size then he has in less time. Meanwhile when i grill up some chicken he is peeling all of the skin off the chicken to avoid unncessary fat, runs like crazy and wants to take all thats ab pills and stuff just so he can get cut up. I think you gotta look at it like a girl supermodel. Sure they look hot on tv, but up close their skin looks like ****, their actual internal bodies arent very healthy and they starve themselves to death minus the fact they loose their t&a from trying to be so skinny. I see the little prettyboys in my gym all the time flexing in the mirror starring at themselves and the whole 9, as for the maybe handful of big guys who are there Im dying to try and train with them
So people that lift for aesthetics are insecure and have mental problems? This site is getting pathetic. I mean, personally I am all for being big and semi lean simultaneously but holy **** to start a thread bashing people that care about how they look is pretty ******ed. Maybe now that CM's wife left him he will get a six pack LOLOLOLOLZ.
lol.. so strength athletes are more "manly" than bodybuilders
so... if bodybuilding all about being a chick and insecure and not manly.. then why did you ever compete in bodybuilding?
see that part I bolded... THAT'S bodybuilding.. yet you contradict yourself..
I like the cut and lean look no less than I like the big and beefy look. When done right, either looks good on me, my friends, boyfriends, etc. Depending on people's social circles, personal preferences, cultural preferences, and other factors they may not wish to just get as huge as they can get. I don't blame them, either. Variation is a great thing, and someone who looks hot with a six pack makes me happy in my pants as well as someone who looks hot being beefy.
Like cphafner asked earlier, why do you care what other people want for their own body look? Find some self confidence to be who you are without caring whether others want to be just like you.
So much ado about absolutely nothing. As you said, it's all about one's goals: and as humanity proves time and again, people's goals differ. Your goal is not objectively superior to that of a competitive bodybuilder. In short, you are cordially invited to get over yourself.Quote:
Its all about your goals.Im 16% bf right now and am 4 pants size bigger than before.But I feel good,look decent and am strong as hell for a Raw powerlifter of my size.I say **** or get off the pot.You wanna be big or cut?
A Real Man holds high ethical ideals without compromise.
A Real Man is emotionally balanced. He should be able to laugh
and cry as he damn well please, and not give a **** what other
people think of him.
A Real Man can be laughed -AT- as well as laughed -WITH- and not feel
insulted, demeaned, or belittled. Words don't breat bones!
A Real Man shares his feelings with those he cares for.
A Real Man has grace under pressure and does not panic in a crisis.
A Real Man is responsible for his actions and inactions.
A Real Man takes on the burden of responsibility for those who
-cannot- shoulder a responsibility themselves *providing* he is
asked to and agrees.
A Real Man marries for life.
A Real Man surrenders his marriage gracefully if it does not work.
A Real Man loves and honors his spouse above all else.
A Real Man honors and respects *ALL* women, be she Queen or harlot.
A Real Man is sexually and emotionally responsive to his spouse or
A Real Man is attentive to his spouse sexually, paying attention to
what pleases her and what does not.
A Real Man is one who respects his spouse's wishes when she says "Not
tonight, dear." He does not whine, plead, or beg.
A Real Man understands that it is not his job or duty to please
anyone other than himself, which includes his spouse, and which
also includes his spouse sexually.
A Real Man desires to please his spouse and children before himself
out of love and not guilt or a "sense of power."
A Real Man supports his spouse in her successes as well as failures.
A Real Man is kind to himself.
A Real Man does not lie.
A Real Man does not steal.
A Real Man does not cheat.
A Real Man is tolerant of dissenting opinion.
A Real Man is NOT tolerant of hate, bigotry, ignorance.
A Real Man never strikes child, woman, or man, for ANY reason, unless
A Real Man is well-educated.
A Real Man is well-read.
A Real Man is clean and well-groomed.
A Real Man can cook, clean, iron, wash dishes, change a diaper, and
stay home while his spouse works for a living.
A Real Man is kind to animals and children. :-)
A Real Man helps those who ask for help.
A Real Man knows when to help someone who needs help but doesn't ask
A Real Man does *not* help someone who needs help when asked not to.
(I.e. a Real Man respects other's decisions).
yeah find out what ur goals are and work for them, stop worrying about what other people are doing and focus on urself and the world would be a much better place
some people wanna be the next gene rychalk and bench 1000 pounds and dont care how big their gut gets some guys wanna look liek brad pitt in fight club, who cares go for what you want and work towards that and stop giving a **** about others goals
work towards your own
then ull get the true idea of the game its to strive for what you want and get it, both take tons of work and disicpline
personally im going for a leaner look now, ive been big now im trying to lean out, whoa i guess that makes me a pussy now, bull****, im the biggest stronges and most muscualr "natural" guy in my gym, but does that make me upset when someone ask me how to work their abs so they will show, no i give them advice then get back under my heavy weight,
thats what i want and they want what they want
shut up and lift
i can understand some people getting a little pi$$ed off with people coming in the gym and saying i want this and not workign for it and posing all the time, i like to go the the gym, work out and get out but in the same breath everyone is different.
You have a bobybuilder who wuil get big and want to look good or a powerlifter who will want to get stong, who cares what i look like so you are trying to compair 2 completely different styles and some people (like me) will want to be somewhere in the middle of them both, stong as an ox but not a blubber, i dont care about abs but i do want a flat smomach and big chest, shoulders, arms.
Some people annoy me who come in the gym sit on one macine for 1 hour and in that time do 1 set!! aghhhh but still their parogotive, let them do it if it makes them happy!
I'll stop by to add another "who gives a ****?"
When you're in the gym, worry about what you're doing, keep your head down and keep your god damn mouth shut. That's the way it should be.
This isn't even a debate, it's just cock-waving. Neither side will "win", whatever the **** that means. Starting something like this is just useless.
Gospel right there. I have as much respect for the fat kid who busts his butt to chisel out a six-pack as I do for the skinny twerp who wants to squat 700 by any means necessary. Find your goals and go after them, and feel free to flip the bird at any dude who gives you flak for it.
I didnt say all bodybuilders are insecure.This thread was directed at young guys who claim they want size,but arent willing to do what it takes unless they can stay lean.My biggest influence in all my years of training were guys like Shawn Ray,Lee Labrada,Kevin Leverone.Bodybuilders.Some of my best friends today are bodybuilders,and they know how I feel.Bodybuilding is not an athletic competition like powerlifting is.The training is athletic,yes.But the competition is a judged contest.Not unlike miss America.Would you call that an athletic endeavor?
As far as Justin Harris goes,he is both a bodybuilder and powerlifter.I have nothing but the utmost respect for Justin and his internal drive as well as his knowledge of nutrition and training.And being a fellow Polish countrymen,Pudzianowski is pretty much my role model these days.But remember that Mariusz is an athletic competitor who benefits from being in good cardio shape and for him,keeping a low bodyfat.He's so strong that it wouldnt matter what percentage he was.
Whats funny is that its gonna take years for some of you young guys to realize that putting on weight,training heavy for low reps,and then stripping fat if you want to, is 100 x easier and more efficient then trying to do both at the same time.You have all these guys on here who are more experienced and carry much more muscle,yet you ignore their advice because of a Flex magazine article or something you read on bodybuilding.com.Half those guys arent articulate enough to write an article much less articulate it.They got their size from heavy ****in training.Ever see Lee Priest in the offseason?50lbs heavier.Every photo you see in a magazine is taken pre-contest or just after.To be honest,I dont give a **** what someone elses goals are.Im giving one mans view on the subject.Take it or leave it.
Lee Priest was hospitalised for dnp use. Lee cang et as damn bulked as he wants and lose 50 pounds of fat in 3 months at the most.
From the text you wrote it appears your issue is with guys who aren't looking to be powerlifters, to train like powerlifters, and who don't want to have a perpetual layer of fat on them.Quote:
This thread was directed at young guys who claim they want size,but arent willing to do what it takes unless they can stay lean.
Should we be impressed?Quote:
My biggest influence in all my years of training were guys like Shawn Ray,Lee Labrada,Kevin Leverone.Bodybuilders.
Some of my best friends today are bodybuilders,and they know how I feel.
Is there an athletic component to getting ready for Miss America? Are the contestants judged on the results of their athleticism? Try comparing things that are comparable.Quote:
Bodybuilding is not an athletic competition like powerlifting is.The training is athletic,yes.But the competition is a judged contest.Not unlike miss America.Would you call that an athletic endeavor?
Most efficient training I've done has not been from the powerlifter's book: that training makes my body break. Training like a bodybuilder is proving more effective and easier on my joints. Check this out: not everyone benefits most from the same method. Durr...Quote:
Whats funny is that its gonna take years for some of you young guys to realize that putting on weight,training heavy for low reps,and then stripping fat if you want to, is 100 x easier and more efficient then trying to do both at the same time.You have all these guys on here who are more experienced and carry much more muscle,yet you ignore their advice because of a Flex magazine article or something you read on bodybuilding.com.Half those guys arent articulate enough to write an article much less articulate it.They got their size from heavy ****in training.Ever see Lee Priest in the offseason?50lbs heavier.Every photo you see in a magazine is taken pre-contest or just after.
For someone who doesn't give a **** what someone else's goals are you sure did a lot of **** slinging at people with goals different from your. Do you even read what you write?Quote:
To be honest,I dont give a **** what someone elses goals are.Im giving one mans view on the subject.Take it or leave it.
Maybe if it was explained a little clearly,you would understand instead of breaking apart my sentences and plaing DR Phil.
In order to build muscle at an efficient rate,you must take in more calories than you need to grow.A surplus of what you take in for maintenance.You must put back more than what was there before you trained.Not the same..MORE.
You must force a muscle to grow by overload.This doesnt mean fatigue.It doesnt mean endless sets of reps to failure over and over again.It means progressive overload through strength training.The debate is not with bodybuilding vs powerlifting,its with training philosophy and misconceptions.Your statement that not everybody responds to the same things is wrong.Its a falsehood.Squats will make everyones legs grow.Rows will thicken yours and everyone elses back.Low reps and high weight will make everyone stronger.High reps and high weight will make everyone get tired faster.
Any good bodybuilder will bulk in the offseason .Any good powerlifter will implement cardio in his routine.But you ask those bodybuilders how they got big.Drugs,obviously.But they will tell you Squat,bench,deadlift.And whats that?Sounds like a powerlifting routine to me.Its guys that are afraid of getting hurt,guys that protect their back and knees to the point of rediculousness that struggle with skinny legs and a weak back their whole life.Its guys that are afraid to eat the necessary food to grow because their girlfriends wont think their hot,or they see a little spare tire and start thinking their fat that will struggle their whole life in a gym,while others are getting jacked.
Mike, you would think if you are 35 years old you would have a little more respect for anyone that pursues any goal. This thread is pathetic, and your reasoning is porrly explained and childish.
I think the thread started harmless enough. I'm not sure what it turned into now. I remember being pretty upset when people told me I would need to gain some fat to get bigger. I do believe TN Mike is frustrated with the same things many of you have been. Your buddy or family member asks for advice and you gladly help out. Only to find they are dismissed your advice over a PT, magazine or whatever. You do see many football players in HS wanting to get bigger to play or go to college to play, and the truth is the easiest way is by eating big and lifting heavy. Now if they are concerned about abs and such, TN Mike you have the knowledge it sounds like to help them come up with a detailed diet to gain muscle and not put on fat. It's going be tougher for you to help them reach goals (maybe) but it can be done, and they will need to be more disciplined in there training, diet, activities and all. Many high level natty bb's are staying at a lower bf level today than ever before because they have greater understand of diet and such.