Push Pull Leg Routine.
Due to my hip soreness and hip flexor soreness from squating 3 times per week on bill starr 5x5, im looking to cut back to squating once per week. Well at least till i fix my hip soreness. Thinking something like this: ( Aiming for Size and Strength )
Assitance? ( Skullcrushes , Pulldowns )
Bent Over Row
Assitance? ( BB Curls, Pullovers )
Seated/Standing Calf Raises
Assitance? ( Leg presses , Extensions , Good Mornings , Lunges )
Looking to do those main exercises with 2-3 assistance exercises.
Could i make something work using this layout? With rep range im looking to do 5x3-5 Reps on main lifts ( Squats,Bench,Military,Deads ) , then with others a higher range between 8-12. Anyone else had experience of a successful push/pull/leg routine?
Looks good, I would go Mon-pull, Wed-push, Fri-legs.
I did this for a while and it worked pretty well.
Thanks, What sort of rep ranges did you use?
Originally Posted by NickAus
Definitely have the push day in the middle of the week. The layout you have looks solid. The assistance work is dependent on goals but you seem to know what you're doing. I used to lift 3 days/week having S/B/D as my main lifts followed by assistance work and it worked out well building a base for my big-3 and hypertrophy training.
edit: I did 5 sets of 1-3 reps on the big 3 and 3x8-12 on accessory lifts. get creative with the squat, bench and deadlift. bands and board (if you don't have them yet) can spark some progress sooner than you think.
I agree with the others; Mon (pull), Wed (push), and Fri (lower).
Good looking routine.
Thanks guys! Went to the physio tonight - he said my hips are really tight and not very flexible. He wants me to do stretches every night before i goto bed and not to squat for at least another 1-2weeks. He also mentoined that my wide stance splayed would be putting a lot of strain on my hip region. Might start really low and work my way up with a closer stance, so i can keep the load off the hips.
Originally Posted by Off Road
Offroad - What assistance work would u do in my routine, what rep ranges? Just asking, cause u seem to know your stuff :) Would i get any benefits doing 20 rep squaters in my lower day? Im still looking to get size and strength in my squats tho.
Main Movements ( Squats Bench Military Deads ) im thinking 5x 3-5 Reps
Assistance Movements 2-3 x 8-12 Reps.
Thanks once again.
I'd do the Squats for lowish reps (5's maybe)
I'd do the SLDL with moderate reps (8's maybe)
Then I'd do the accessories with higher reps (12's maybe)
I love 20 reppers for putting on size and conditioning, but I think the low rep stuff is more important. You could throw some 20's in once in a while for a change-up. I like to get the low rep work done, then drop the weight and crank out a 20. It's very tough, but my appetite goes through the roof.
As far as accessories go, pick a bunch of them that you like or you think will help you. Then do a couple of them until you burn out on them, then pick some differnt ones. Keep it fun.
20 reppers are more of a mental challenge than anything. They are not the most efficient way to exercise legs. Having a heavy bar on your back for 2+ minutes can be extremely uncomfortable. You can achieve a similar effect by doing shorter sets having a few seconds rest in between to take the stress off your spine.
You obviously need some volume more than anything assistance specific. 5x5 ascending sets might not be enough once per week, hence the extra work.
I don't think a lot of concentrated volume is the most efficient way to gain strength, but it does look like a bodybuilding scheme, which you want.
For now, a good post injury tactic would be to ease in with light/medium and frequent exercise. Start adding extra bits when you're ready and only do extreme stuff like 20 reppers once you've fully recovered.
On your squat day why not just run a 5/3/1 type deal so that you get a range of volume and intensity.
In as far as assistance exercises, why not focus on movements that could help with your hip strength rather than just going for SLDLS. Below is just a suggestion..
Squat (3x5), (3x3), (5,3,1) or just do 5x5
Wide Stance, Arched Back GMs (3x8-10)
Step Ups or Lunges (BB or DB) (3x8-10)
45* Back Extensions (3x8-10)
I've always wanted to try that. I knew a guy once on the Hardgainer forum that did it. He did a good job of documenting his progress. He did breathing squats with a high percentage of his 1RM. He'd do one rep, rack the bar, take several deep breaths, then crank out another single, and repeat until he got all 20. He put on a bunch of weight with it. I just haven't been crazy enough to try it yet :evillaugh:
Originally Posted by hairyback40k
Off Road, I'm very tempted to try that!
If I were following prilepins table http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls12.htm, I would manage 20 singles at between 80-85% keeping force production highest throughout. Anything more would probably be asking for burnout.
Here's another idea: go for a high rep set but don't count. Get someone else to count for you, but not out loud! That way the end is when you don't make it back up. You won't know whether you've done 10 or 30 until the set is over!
I couldn't help not counting :evillaugh:
Dr. Ken used to leave all his squats on the pins, maybe he still does. I remember watching the video of him squatting 400x20 at a low bodyweight, around 170 lbs if I remember correctly. Absolutely inspirational.
Ok, thanks alot for the replies. I was thinking about this, confirm or deny, express your opinions :)
Pull: ( Monday )
Sumo-Deadlift 5 Sets of 3-5 Reps
Bent Over Row 3 Sets of 10-12 Reps
Chin Ups X sets of 30 Reps ( How ever many sets it takes to reach 30 )
Pullovers 2 Sets of 10-12 Reps
BB Curls 3 Sets of 8 Reps
Push: ( Wednesday )
Bench 5 Sets of 3-5 Reps
Standing Military 5 Sets of 3-5 Reps
Dips 3 Sets of 8 Reps
Flat D/B Fly'es 2 Sets of 10-12 Reps
Skullcrushers 2 Sets of 8 Reps
Pushdowns 1 Sets of 10-15 Reps
Legs & Lower: ( Friday )
Squats 3 Sets of 5 Reps
Wide Stance GMs 3 Sets of 8-10 Reps ( Help Strengthen Hips )
Leg Extensions 2 Sets of 15-20 Reps
Hyperextensions 3 Sets of 8-10 Reps ( Help Strengthen Hips )
Seated/Standing Calf Raises 2 Sets of Each of 12-15 Reps
How does this look? Ive limited squats to 3 work sets of 5 so its less volume and stress on my hips. Then used flynn's idea with the strengthing hip exercises and droped SLDL? What do you guys think on the overrall? Im not sure if thats enough work for legs and lower? Im sure the push/pull workouts should work out well though.
Im open for suggestions!
When I did the pull/push/legs I was working up to my best 3 then doing a set of 10 on the first movement of the day.
Some days you beat your PR on both the 3 rep set and the 10 rep set, other days just one or the other.
This was fun and helped both strength and size.
For assistance I was mainly working up to my best 8-10 then doing a couple of sets with 20kg less for the same 8-10 if that makes sense.
Originally Posted by benno
Let me get this straight- you want less stress on your hips, so you're dropping squats, but then doing lots of extra work ON the hips to strengthen them?
How does that work exactly?
I was using Flynn's idea. Obviously my hips get more beat up from squats. GM's and hypers dont put the same strain on my hips like squats do. Bad idea you reckon? Im open for all suggestions..
Originally Posted by hairyback40k
2. choose a program listed on WBB such as SS, Westside or Wendler. Do NOT make up your own program.
3. start squatting again.
4. bring your squat stance in.
5. Add repetition work and choose more exercises IF the program permits.
6. Eat and get good results.
I plan on resting till at least next Friday from legs.
Originally Posted by hairyback40k
Ive done SS, BGB and bill starr programs from the site. I honestly dont see MUCH difference from this program to bill starrs, SS etc. the only difference being is you do some major compounds twice a week. I can still use the same format or ramping weights suggested in bill starr, welder or texas method. Ive incorporated all the compounds needed and thrown in some assistance work.. Pretty standard really...
I do not want to be squating no more than once a week at this stage till i feel 100% condifent on my hips and form. Once i feel 100% i will start squating twice a week.
Benno, your hip soreness is due to lack of flexibility right?
I think your push/pull/legs setup is fine. Your hips are just not used to having squatted with such frequency before. I still say, work on strengthening your hips and do plenty of stretching and foam rolling each day.
Pick a stance that allows you to squat with the best form and work from there. Start lighter again if you have to and work up. Your hips will adapt!
Originally Posted by Flynn
Thanks for the reply. Yeah mate, hips are sore due to lack of flexibility. I have no strength trouble whats so ever with the squat, i just feel the hips werent ready for a big pounding of 3x a week. On Bill Starr i was squating 160kgs for 5 quite easily..
I think what you have chosen is good, remember everything within reason will work for a while.
Stick with it and hit it hard while getting plenty of sleep and food and you will do really well for sure!
So the program you're thinking about doing is temporary while you rest, then you're going to go back to the 5x5 ? ?
Must be an excellent program if you can put 60kgs of weight on your squat in 8 months!
Just think, at that rate you'll be squatting 220kgs by next summer.
??? Not sure what your on about hey.
Originally Posted by hairyback40k
Ok, this year you started out doing BGB? and your squat was hovering around 100kgs, yeah? You stuck with that for a few months then started Bill Starr5x5. Roll on several months and you're hovering around a 160kg squat. So you've improved a lot over the past few months, correct?
So, I take it you're going to go back on the Bill Starr program then after you have recovered?