Enough said...i agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
Enough said...i agree to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
ExtremeAnabolic::The article is one of the silliest pieces of nonsense I have read in a long time. Please. This guy claims he can turn 170 lb builders into 260 lb builders? He claims he could take "anybody reading this and turn them into 4.0lbs per inch bodybuilder." Yet just a couple of lines above he states that everyone he has trained has gained at least 47 lbs. Sorry but those two contradict each other.
Doggcrapp:: wheres the contradiction? This article which was taken from a post I left on a board where I was talking about training 7 local bodybuilders in my area and yes they all gained at least 47lbs with the biggest gain 75lbs. That was Clarence Reese who started at 189lbs with me and ended up at 264lbs and was photographed by Musclemag Intl--whats your point?
extremeanabolic::The article is riddled with contradictions throughout and stupid generalizations. When someone says things like "anybody, everybody" that is the first clue that said someone is talking out of his a**.
Doggcrapp:: thats wierd because I had the same feeling when i perused through your threads on this board and im going to go thru every post you left on this thread to refute you because you do have my undisputed nomination as "idiot of the month"
Anabolicextreme::The parts that are correct, are nothing that has not been said before over and over again. Just because someone repeats something he's read and it happens to be right, doesn't make the person an authority. Look at his examples. He is using professional drug using genetically elite people. I would think that most people on this board are quite different from the above "athletes" and I use that term broadly.
Doggcrapp::What???? get a clue! Do you think elite people come to me? Elite genetic mesomorphs never need trainers! They only need precontest guys like Chad Nichols etc to bring them into shows. I train 75% natural guys so get the story straight. Who comes to me? People who cant get anywhere or people who are stuck--the genetic challenged-- What the hell is easy about that? You keep saying my methods are retread---Ive never seen people use rest pause like I have before I did. Mentzer used rest pause singles. I use rest pause 7+3+2. I have carb cuttoffs. Extreme stretching. 4-8 on 2-3 week cruises. Statics. etc etc etc. Im sorry but I didnt see people bulking up with olive oil until I blasted it hard on the net.
ScottS::Looks more or less like HIT to me. At least he admits that his biggest successes were on steroids.
Doggcrapp:: I have no control over if someone uses steroids or not. I work with what Im presented in the scheme they want to pursue. 75% of the people i train are clean. I presently train people online--I pick and choose because I dont want to train many people--due to the fact that I work a well paying job for a software company as my main line of work. The person who Ive trained online and has the record for most muscle gained (63lbs) is clean as a whistle
ExtremeCatabolic::I would like to suggest that the problem is that YOU have not read MY reponse. I never said that this would not work. What I was talking about were his stupid claims about how he could take ANYONE and make them huge.
Doggcrapp:: Im sorry but I can. I'm sorry you have bad genetics or just cant get to that place where people are asking you if you even lift--but I can get people very large and ive never failed yet and I wont. The only thing Im cocky about is that I know I can take anyone and put bigtime muscle on them and that comes from doing it repeatedly. Can I make them into pros? No thats genetics and other factors but i can make them very large and one of the biggest guys in their area and I sure as hell can make them larger than you (thats easy)
Extremecatabolic:: Some people are just not genetically designed to be that way. Also keep in mind that just because someone posts some pictures does not mean that he trained them. They probably added most of their size before they met him if indeed they were "trained" by him.
Doggcrapp:: oh god --when they post their pictures they usually if not always say DC training with it. LOLOL too funny. Heres one for you and theres a whole bunch more if you care to look around
ExtremeCatabolic::Also keep in mind that his "success stories" were just about all accomplished with the use of steroids. Because you can pump a needle full of drugs into your butt and get huge does not mean that you know what you are doing, just that you know how to inject correctly.
Doggcrapp:: Jackass where are you getting your information? National Enquirer? Have you ever read a post by me before or do you always talk straight from your ass?
ExtremeCatabolic::As for his methods I (and others) have heard of training the body more than once per week and "extreme stretching" These were being used by bodybuilders back in Arnold's day. Hardly new or revolutionary.
Doggcrapp:: really tell me who coined the phrase "extreme stretching" and ill give you some credit. Because the only ones that i know who have used it are Jon Parillo and myself--thats it.
Extremecatabolic::As for anabolic use I can not speak as to that, as I have never used drugs. But given the amount of "crap" he was spewing above as regards training, I would be very surprised if he knew more about drugs than the average juicehead.
I've said it before and I will say it again. Just because someone makes some claims and posts pictures and has a website does not mean that he knows what he is talking about. The proof is in the pudding and his "pudding" tastes like the name of his training.
Doggcrapp::Ill say it now and Ill say it again--theres power in numbers and power in numbers always proves itself right. If 1963 bodybuilders out of 2000 say HMB doesnt do jack--take that as "HMB doesn't do jack" instead of a buck 40lb scientist telling you it does. So with multiple of thousands now doing my training and methods now and its working great for them versus one guy named Extremeanabolic saying it doesnt work--I guess you can figure out why he got my nomination as idiot of the month
Then why do you care so badly to come here and make these posts. I wasnt going to post until I saw this "Im sorry but I didnt see people bulking up with olive oil until I blasted it hard on the net.
LOFL I know high school football players who dont even understand the very basics of eating who are eating olive oil to gain weight. I ate olive oil on my first natural bulk along with peanut butter because it was the easiest way to get cals, before I had ever read any of these boards. A lot of people have adapted rest pause training in their own routines throughout the years. Yes you have some new ideas and theories but eating olive oil probably isnt one of them.
Extreme::. The article is literally RIDDLED with spelling and grammatical mistakes. Now anyone can make a few mistakes, (heck I'm not perfect either) but this article looks like it was written by a grade nine student who read a few too many Flex magazines and not enough English books. In and of itself, this does not have a bearing on the author's training knowledge, but I counted 9 mistakes in one paragraph alone! If you are trying to present your ideas, it is a good idea to employ Spell Checker at the very least. It certainly should raise a red light at the least to see a article as badly written as this one.
Doggcrapp:: you see how fast im writing these posts? Thats how fast I was writing those posts. All that was taken from a thread in which I posted on. Some sites asked me if they could put them on their site in article form. I said yea go head. I wasnt writing published articles--it was a thread on a board which had 50 members at the time and the whole thing took off.
EXtreme::2. "I truly believe I could take anybody reading this and turn them into a 4.0lbs per inch bodybuilder." First of all even men like Ronnie Coleman, and Yates are not 4.0lbs per inch bodybuilders ( at least in contest shape. ) Off-season yes, but do you really believe this guy's training could make "anybody" (his words) look like Coleman, Ruhl and Yates? Come on! Words like everyone and anybody should raise another red light...and cast serious doubt on the author's training qualifications.
Doggcrapp:: Well do you walk around year round at 3.3% bodyfat?!?!?!? LOLOLOL offseason yes skippy it meant offseason --actually the guys you named are up at 4.5lbs of muscle per inch bodybuilders. I cant make pros but i do believe i can take a 6footer and make him 280lbs with time and all the tools--no doubt about it. (and yes tools means steroids so Ill concede 3.5 for natural guys if you want to get specific)
AnabolicExtreme::. "Every bodybuilder I have trained has gained at least 47 lbs." Well I have gained about 60 lbs (naturally) during the time that I have been training. Does that qualify me to give advice? If not, what about him? If we are using weight gain as one of the criteria, then certainly I am more qualified.
Doggcrapp:: you are more qualified? If weight gain is criteria I gained 103lbs naturally from 20 years old (137lbs) to 26 (240lbs) so where does that leave you? About 43lbs behind me naturally and then another 60lbs after that if you happen to use "help" at 240 like i did. So you better get eating because the people I train are flying by your ass.
ExtremeAnabolic:: "I have trained 7 people bodybuilding wise in the last 4 years" Doesn't sound so great to me. That's less than TWO clients a YEAR!
Doggcrapp::uhhh yeah at that time I only took on 2 guys a year (they wanted to train longterm with me) as AGAIN I am not a 24 hour or ballys fitness trainer--Im a hardcore bodybuilder who has a 40-50 hour work week job outside of bodybuilding and only have so much time to train people in person. (As of now I have no time to train people in person)--What is so hard for you to understand that I can pick and choose who I want to train and that I dont like to do a cookie cutter way of things. I only wanted to train 2 people at a time so I trained 2 people at a time.
ExtremeAnabolic If he is so good, why are people not beating a path to his door? I've never heard of him and neither have many others on this board. Also nearly all this people he trained were on "juice". This alone makes his advice worthless for most of the people on this board.
Doggcrapp:: actually im pissing alot of people off because Im turning away so many people. I've never heard the screenname extremeanabolic either before I got an email today saying "Dante look at this ass****" on the wannabebig board"--and again for the 50th time 3/4 of the people I train are clean.
Anabolicextreme::. "If you train a bodypart once a month you will not overtrain but you will be growing only 12 times a year...
Wrong. You will not grow if you train once a month. You will regress. Try it and see.
Doggcrapp:: LOL way to take that one out of context---why dont you cut and paste the whole point to that sentence that came in the paragraph after it.
ExtremeAnabolic:. "Incredible strength GAINS will equal incredible size GAINS." No this is wrong again. You can get a lot stronger without getting a lot bigger. He has got it the wrong way around.
Doggcrapp:: ok this is where you go on your CNS and neurogical pathways tangent that Ive argued back and forth on other boards that I tire to bring on the same argument once again---simply put prove me wrong by doing just one thing....please use the same exact weights that you are using now for the next decade ok--(and let me know the great gains in muscle mass that you happen to make(YOU WONT MAKE THEM)
Extreme anabolic:: "I believe Ronnie Coleman was clean or close to it when he was powerlifting and when he was an amateur bodybuilder"
Say what? First of all, either one is clean or not. There is no "close to it." Secondly if someone is THAT deluded, do you really think he knows what he is talking about?
Doggcrapp:: Oh no Admiral Absolute is here. You want to get that specific? You better as hell not admit eating meat that just might be from trenbolone/synovex loaded cattle, or drinking milk from any cow that might of had bovine growth hormone used on it because guess what--you are no longer clean. So in your eyes if a guy takes 2mg of anavar a day and another guy takes in 3000mg of test, 600mg of tren a week, 50mg of dball a day, 4ius of gh a day they are both on the same level? I said "close to it"--what do you think "close to it" might mean. It meant he wasnt loaded to the hilt at that time because he was much much smaller
AnabolicExtreme::If all it took were "dedication" and "balls" I would have been 285 lbs a long time ago. So would a lot of other people. To be 285 lbs takes one of two things or both. Genetics and steroids. There are very few people on this board who are 285 lbs and in shape. Your comment was a slap in the face to them all. You are claiming that they are that way because they don't have dedication or balls. I guess it must be easy to hide behind a computer and throw out insults hmm?
Doggcrapp:: you seem to throw out insults left and right to me on this post what are you talking about? Trust me you will never make it to 285lbs because you have that "im above it all" attitude that limits people--People that think they know it all are stuck, im learning all the time and im improving--you wont even get close to that 285lb level but if you keep the faith you might be able to spot a 300lb monster named Blindfaith in a couple years if destiny allows it or he just might let you have one of his old towels for keepsake.
ExtremeAnabolic::The routine is a ripoff of Menzer's. True there are some differences, (he advocates more exercises and more time), but nothing that hasn't been said over and over again for the last thirty years. By all means keep believing that you have found the "magic" routine and train that way. You might even get big. But don't ever again get snarky with me pal. "Educate myself?"
I have been training for almost 14 years. I have a Master's degree in a related field. And I have gone from 140 lbs to 200 lbs with only a little more bodyfat than I had when I started. And at 6'2" and 140 I had little enough bodyfat to begin with.
Doggcrapp:: Jesus what the hell happened? 14 years to gain 60lbs!?!?!?! Thats 4lbs a year!!! Thats awful. I would of quit a long time ago if I was running in place like that. My degree is in Electrical Engineering, my passion is reading every iota that has to do with creating muscle mass whether it be someone's theory or Medline or NEJM. I quickly looked at the salaries in the related fields as it relates to bodybuilding and intelligently decided to forgo any career path leaning that way --and pursued engineering instead. But I have yet to meet anyone who delves into information in this passion of mine as ardently as myself. I put 63 lbs on a guy this year in 6 months and he was clean (kpompin on the Animal board)--it took you 14 years to gain 60? Im thinking all this derogatory grandstanding about my training methods comes from a bitter individual who after 14 years of training never gets asked if he is a bodybuilder.
Extreme Anabolic :every bodybuilder he has trained has gained at least 47 lbs. How much of that was fat? I have gained 60 lbs totally naturally. I have never even taken legal supplements, ever. Well I must know more about training than DoggCrap then right? No I know what works for me. Just like he knows what works for him (when he is on gear at least).
Doggcrapp:: my trainees are flying right by you --they are accomplishing in months what it took you 14 years to do---I was going to maybe look up some of your posts on this board to see your theories but gaining muscle at a 4lb a year pace is much too slow for my tastes and I think Ill pass. Secondly
do you see anyone on the boards saying "dante made me fat"---case closed
smalls::Mentzer used a lot of different training protocols throughout his life, but if anyone is responsible for popularizing rest-pause training it's him.
Doggcrapp:: Mentzer did singles with rest pause! If you can find anyone that did rest pausing at a 10-15RP scale like ive been talking about since the early 1990's in "Hardcore Muscle" magazine you wont find one
ExtremeAnabolic::As for what I do, I do less volume than just about anybody on this board. Usually 6-7 work sets and I am done for the day. Yes I do a three day split...and I've put on sixty pounds (and tripled my strength) doing that. Overtrained? Most people would love to be that overtrained, that they triple their strength and gain sixty pounds.
Doggcrapp:: in 14 years? Is this some incredble accomplishment? You went from 140 to 200lbs in 14 years. I went from 137lbs to 196lbs in about one year and 10 months. I could take any beginning 140lber and make him 200lbs in about a year or less now due to getting my methods down pat with trial and error--Im sorry but I find that kind of embarrassing for you. If you've trained for 14 years and still to this day noone was commenting or asking you about "bodybuilding" its time for you ExtremeAnabolic to question-------- if what you are doing training and for that matter everythingwise is even remotely correct
The key word was popularizing. He brought it to peoples attention who may not have heard of, or thought of it on their own. Which I am sure you do as well. Do you really think there werent kids in gyms all over america doing variations of rest pause training at different rep schemes? You may have been the first person to write about it in detail in an article, but, do you really think you where the first person to come up with that idea. That is all I'm saying.
ExtremeAnabolic::Oh one final thing. By Mr. DogCrap's own admission he has "trained 7 people bodybuilding wise in the last four years".
Doggcrapp:: In person at that time 2years ago that would be correct! Thank god you got one thing correct in this whole thread
ExtremeAnabolic::Another post pointed out that he only trains 4 people at once. Assuming that he trains people for a whole year he should have had at least 16 clients.
Doggcrapp::????? Since that time (2 years ago) Ive trained about 6 more people in person and a slew of people online as I have more time to do that. So many online I have lost count. What is your point? Do you want me to personally train 40 people a week and online train 300 people a month or something? Because I dont do that. I pick and choose hardcore people who I will work well with on a limited basis (because thats what I choose to do)
All these people who claim he is "god" how do they know? He didn't train them all. How do they "know" how to follow his training? Did he give it out for free? Then what would be the point of charging for his training? Either he charges for his training, and only those he trains know it works for them, or he gives it out for free and therefore why would people pay for it?
Doggcrapp:: there is a thread that has 165 thousand views on it outlining all my methods--I wrote almost all my methods on that thread except details on diet. Anyone can read it and use it and ask me questions on it. If people want my hands on help and contact me to write up all their workouts and all their diet I charge them--that stuff takes time. My diets I write up for people print out routinely from 10-16 pages.
As far as being anyones god or guru--HELL NO. Im just one more 300lb gym rat in a sea of thousands who put some thought into this and gave some people some alternative methods for them to use if they were stuck. Im no guru and never want to see anyone saying I am. A guru is someone that is stuck in his ways with no bend or willingness to try out other methods--Most gurus are 200lbs after 14 years of lifting. Im 100lbs past that point and I continue to learn from others and myself (maybe theres some food for thought for you)
I've gotta say, considering he had quite a bit to respond to, DoggCrapp conducted himself in a fairly well behaved manner.
Some of his numbers sound out of whack, but hey, I've never done DoggCrapp training, and I've never used Gear, so what do I know?
They just didn't call it "extreme stretching" then. It was just something some of them did. I can't remember where I read about it. For some reason Reg Park doing them is stuck in my head, but I wouldn't bet the house on that :) . Same with your rest pause scenario. One of the ways you learn to incorperate Rest Pause is the exact way you say to. Although most people do it the way Mentzer advocated.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOGGCRAPP
Your routine is nothing "new", it's just another good way of doing things.
Nice job on keeping cool after all the attack. I'd probably have been MF'n and SOB'n if I had to deal with some of this stuff myself.
Originally Posted by DOGGCRAPP
Let me see, that's 10.3 lbs a month, or a little more than 2 lbs a week. Either he has world class genes or not all of that was muscle. But I'm done with this thread. You claim you surpass me naturally. Whatever. Anybody can come onto this board and make claims. I'm not the only one who's made points as to why your training methods are not applicable to everyone. Anyway I'm not going to debate this with someone who's going to decend to a sixth grade level and says things like "I nominate you for idiot of the month". Grow up.
Oh and you might want to read the forum rules on flaming members here. People get banned for that. If you want to debate try doing it in a civil manner.
You might want to reread your derogatory posts that tempted me to reply, you wouldnt catch me "flaming" anyone if I didnt have to respond at all to comments like yours. As far as kpompin--email him--ask him for pics-ask him his results-ask to see the pics-one at 174lbs and another one at 237lbs. Hell theres 100 more online just like him-just look around-What gets me the most is all I tried to do in the beginning was to help people out who were stuck ---- with some of my methods Ive used successfully with people and instead I have to argue constantly defending my ideas on various boards. Im leaning toward just removing myself from this online genre and going back to helping people locally only as I get sick of the constant attacks and scrutiny. I never shoved my methods at anyone-I put a post down and it caught on like wildfire because it worked so well for people and now word of mouth has it running around the bodybuilding boards the last 2 years--its not really the path I wanted.
Originally Posted by ExtremeAnabolic
Okay let's go through these one by one and I will explain in a bit more detail.
1. Regarding the spelling mistakes I did say that this had no bearing on the author's training knowledge. I also said that if someone is trying to present a new idea or theory it is a good idea to use Spell Checker at the very least. I'm an English teacher and I had to read this article twice over to simply try to figure out what he was trying to say. When trying to present something to a audience clarity is important as well as content. If it is too difficult to understand due to lack of clarity then the content is lost as well. However since Mr. DogCrapp claims that this was due to typing fast and if we assume that he believed that clarity was not that important, then I will give him this one.
2. Now you claim that you could take anybody and turn them into a 4.0 lbs per inch bodybuilder (in a later post you said 3.5 for naturals). Well Mr. DogCrapp anybody covers a wide range of people, such as the disabled, children, dwarfs, women, and people with a non serious medical condition, but which prevents them from bodybuilding. Could you turn a paraplegic into a 280 lb monster? See what I mean when I said don't use terms like "everybody" and "anybody"? This point is mine.
3. Regarding the 47lbs gain, you again claimed you could turn "anybody into a 280 lbs builder. Why only 47 lbs if anybody can be 280 lbs (again your words)?
4. As for the 7 people in the last 4 years I took this from your post. If this was 2 years ago, you should have mentioned this. But again I will give you the benefit of the doubt and give you this point.
5. As for the 12 times a year, you did claim you would progress. I took this from your post.
6. Strength gains do NOT equal size gains. It is possible (even for a highly advanced builder to gain a lot of strength without gaining size or only a little. A good example on this site would be the member Latman.
7. Ronnie Coleman was clean? Please. Simply because he was a lot smaller, doesn't mean he was using. At the level he was at when he won those championships, everyone has great genetics, and just about everyone was using gear. If these guys were using gear and he was natural and stayed natural, would anybody have even heard of him today?
So 2 points out of seven, and a third is debatable (#7) That leaves 4 points to me.
"derogatory posts"? I was questioning the POSTS, but not attacking you personally. Anybody can write a bad post, but that just means the post is bad, not the person. I may have gone overboard a little (and I apologize if it seemed like I was attacking you personally, or at any time inadvertently attacked you). Sometimes I get a little carried away.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOGGCRAPP
Regarding my training methods. I spent a good chunk of time training wrong, including many of the methods you espouse. This doesn't mean that they are wrong, only that they are wrong for me and therefore (the anybody) topic came up.
I spent a second chunk of time training correctly (4-5 years) and gaining virtually ALL muscle. Sure I could have ate like a pig and took gear and got there a lot faster. But I prefer to gain muscle naturally and without fat (or only a little)
I spent the third chunk of time maintaining. Not everyone wants to be 280 lbs and even if I took gear I wouldn't get to that point. Not unless I added a lot of fat. Right now what I want to do is stay at the level and get down to below 10% bodyfat. Those are my goals. Not being 280. Again let's simply agree to disagree and move on.
I read over this whole thread last night and found it interesting. Does anyone have links to pics that show these "unbelieveable" results? I am curious. Or better yet, pics of DC himself.
Hello, I'm trying to get word of my new product out called "Horsesh*t training". For anyone who has never heard of this, let me offer my qualifications. I have PhDs in Physics, Biology, Computer Science, and Car Mechanics. I have successfully trained many bodybuilders from 130lb pieces of crap into the men they are today, including:
Ghandi (unfortunately, I could never get him to go on a bulking phase)
I think the results of these people that I have trained speak for themselves.
I also want to make it clear that people are beating down my door to be my clients, which is why I'm shamelessly promoting my product on a free message board.
I invented every successful training technique known to man, and if you criticize my program I will have a steroid induced temper tantrum.
Thank you for your time.
ShooterMcgavin7: I invented every successful training technique known to man, and if you criticize my program I will have a steroid induced temper tantrum
Doggcrapp:: yea i do have a problem when my trainees are dwarfing virtually every single person on this thread but some 2 dollar and change lifter can bash my methods due to his ego somehow getting hurt because "its so dramatically different than how he is training".
Justin my pics have been online 2-3 times now because people "called me out" on Elite fitness and other sites--Im not posting them all again because I really dont give a crap about proving "me"-I know who I am and it doesnt matter in this context of discussion--this is about my methods. If your curious there is a pic of me on this thread half way down
Im 6 foot and about 295lbs there if somehow that proves any of a point to you (it shouldnt because it doesnt mean anything at all--the context of my methods is what im arguing here, not who I am)
if you want to see some of my trainees heres a couple of the top of my head I looked up
(theres links to many others pics on that thread)
and heres some afters and befores on the next link-
and some more before and afters
you guys can go look up the rest because Im tired of posting links.
Now can we end this now because I would rather get back to helping people than arguing with bodybuilders who cant understand different concepts than their own. Do you know what I never do? I never go online to the different boards and bash peoples training or dieting ideas--NEVER. Why? Because thats the petty little bitch way of doing things somewhat like the fat girl in the crowd hating the fit beautiful girl who works hard to stay that way. You want my respect? Come out with something better and Ill be the first one to applaud you, give you credit, and use your methods.
Guys, ease up. You're not arguing training.
I've been reading his stuff for 8-10 months now.
DC has defended himself very well on many boards, do a search. I don't agree with all of his techniques, but it's mostly a matter of preference. The training works. Plain and simple.
Forget your apparent (and groundless) dislike for him or his claims for a second and look at the training and diet system objectively. Now, tell me why it won't work.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the stretching, and I have different goals than the training dictates. The diet on the other hand is fairly similar to what I use (although I tweak it some). You all know I'm a diet guy anyway.
See Borris disagrees with me and I respect the way he does it. He has his own ideas, states as such and doesnt use derogatory adjectives to relay his opinion.
much appreciated Boris
No problem, man.
Actually, DC, while I've got you here...
I know you dodge fat and carbs in the same feeding, a la Berardi, as I tend to as well. I can come up with reasons why it doesn't matter, but I seem to respond better when I do so I'm not going to argue with what works for me.
Anyway, I've seen some of the sample diets proposed by people following your style (not your trainees, mind you), who say that they're following your guidelines but I'll see meals involving things like a cup of oats and two tablespoons of olive oil in addition to whatever protein.
Are they simply not getting it? Or am I missing a point?
interesting marketing strategy. Most businesses attempt to keep the word "Crap" AWAY from their product/service.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOGGCRAPP