Most of the guys in here had never done hang cleans. Many had never done squats either or taken nutritional supplements. (The old Michigan program didn't include any of that in the Wolverines regimen.)
First off..I'm a WVU fan. The whoomp, whoomp, whoomp echoing for half a mile out from the stadium area in Morgantown, as players flip giant truck tires across a high ridge during part of Barwis' S&C regimen became a staple of preseason hype and mid-week excitement before game day. We knew our team wouldn't fail in the end due to conditioning, even if we managed to bungle everything else. Everyone who loves the Mountaineer football program misses that dedication to power and endurance that Barwis brought to the program.
So, I read the article when I saw it on ESPN. That quote stood out like a sore thumb. Are you kidding me? Don't tell me players at MICHIGAN have never done a squat, much less a hang clean. I could see MAYBE some super small high schools with no money might not have a weight training program, but they aren't sending kids to Michigan, are they?
Something doesn't jive, there.
I can understand...and BELIEVE....that the Michigan players weren't training explosively, or for fitness. They most certainly have been eating, training, and recruiting for bulk and strength for decades now. It's the biggest O-Line in college. Michigan had 300 pounders on their line before Barry Sanders had them on the Lions back in 1989.
What he's probably referring to....and this is just a hunch....is that the linebackers probably train the same way the linemen do. Michigan linebackers are typically big & slow, like the linemen. Michigan puts a lineman in the 1st round of the draft every year, but you almost never hear of a Michigan linebacker with killer combine stats (footspeed, agility, vertical leap, etc.)
Maybe what he's really saying is that Michigan used to focus on recruiting giants, and then feeding them. What Rodriguez's staff probably HAD to do, not being able to recruit the 5 largest guys on the planet every year, is use Olympic lifts to increase everyone's explosiveness and agility.
Or, I could be totally full of baloney.
"We could put his leg in a vice-grip, but you & I together couldn't twist his ankle enough to sprain it"
- Jerry Glanville discussing Barry Sanders
I have been a Michigan fan since I was born. I kind of agree with Majestic, but I believe the program got soft. Thatís why they needed to get rid of Carr when they did. I remember reading when RR first took over that a few players quit, and a couple transferred, and they werenít used to doing such hardcore strength training and lifts and bitched all the time because of it. He basically said the program became pussified and he was brought in to change that. And I couldnít agree more with RR. I can't wait for the next couple of years. Michigan's elite program + RR training/recruiting= NC in no less than 2 years.
Oh, and I forgot to mention.... GO BLUE!!
Last edited by Davy_Baby9; 07-23-2008 at 12:47 AM.
I could believe that, I guess. Just don't tell me Michigan didn't have their kids squatting. It seemed to me the guy writing the article didn't really know what he was talking about.
A lot of players quit when Rodriguez came to WVU as well. It was because he (and at that time some of his other coaches) screams and cusses at you, constantly. He's a sharp coach, but he's got an ego and attitude to match. You can also prepare for his "extracurricular" activities, once he gets settled and starts scoping out the ladies..LOL It was nice to win big, but I can't say I miss him. He brings a lot of turmoil.
I've heard from good sources michigans weight room was made up of all machines prior to this new strength coach.
Formerly a CMU Chippewa!
It was. A couple coaches at my old highschool went down to Ann Arbor for an auction for the old weight equipment at Michigan. Some of the machines they had were rediulous, **** I'd never even seen before.
Best lifts: 580/470/635, Raw
If I remember correctly Michigan was a HIT school, similar to Penn State.
Mostly machine work to failure, the focus is less on improving athletes and more on not hurting them.
Iowa used to be that way, too. Then Ferentz showed up, got a new strength coach, and suddenly Iowa is known for some good athletes.
Be a man. Be awesome at it. Be proud of it. Beyond the Barbell
"Borris is correct. That sounds logical if you ask me."
I played 5 years of high level college football. There are bad trainers everywhere, and it is no exception for the strength and conditioning coaches at these schools.
Even half the NFL doesn't squat. Different schools of thought.
"You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones."- Quran 16:25
"A life unexamined is not worth living"- Socrates
I guess now would be a good time to say go Buckeyes.
Anyway...I saw WVU's weightroom a couple times the season before last, during the pregame brunch for some of the season ticket holders (not me). They must have had THIRTY power racks in there, and each one had a station in front of it capable of accommodating workouts with bumper plates, or any other kind of work requiring a lot of floor space, etc. I couldn't even see what all was behind that. It's a shame that Rod was bitching about them not upgrading for me, as I'm pretty sure all the stuff was new. It looked first class.
Well the bottom line is Squats, Bench Presses, Deadlifts aren't going to make a programs successful. Talent is everything and the weight room just makes the talented athletes a little bit stronger.
Back in the days I remember playing this football team who all looked like college level players. They were huge and I remember telling my best friend we are going to get killed out here. Once the game started we destroyed them with speed and intensity.
Speed can be improved upon (significantly) with training.
I agree for the most part, though. In the vast majority of sports someone with amazing sport-specific talent and decent training will crush someone with decent sport-specific talent and amazing training (and subsequently much better strength/speed/power).
That said, if the team continues to recruit well AND ALSO has a great training program then they are going to improve significantly.
This is a big improvement for UMich.
Side note: I just joined the Emory weightlifting team, and the head strength+conditioning coach is from Michigan. He used to be a pro strongman and he closely follows UMich. I asked him if he knew anything about this and he mentioned that he was so pissed off as a fan that they had one of the most horrific strength programs imaginable for as long as he could remember and that he was very happy that they got a good strength coach now.
Last edited by KingJustin; 07-27-2008 at 10:43 AM.
I don't really agree with your statement about speed. Sure one can train to get faster but training isn't going to turn a snail into a rabbit. Speed, you either have it or you don't. Weight room Strength is very overrated in college football and in general.
Talent and speed alone can win you the Heisman, see Reggie Bush who still can't break 1 NFL tackle. WV came from nowhere and destroyed Georgia Defense with two skinny Soph at RB and QB(Slaton, White). USC weight room may look awesome but it not even close to being the reason for their success. USC and Texas Success comes from a top 5 recruiting class.
My 100m time dropped 3 seconds (15 to 12) between freshman year in high school to now, and I think it's going to drop another second after I get even more serious about it.
Last edited by KingJustin; 07-27-2008 at 04:57 PM.
During the same time I gained 70 lbs (makes sprinting harder) and my height only increased very slightly... I am certain that you can train speed a substantial amount. I'm not saying that with hard work anyone can run a 11 second 100m, but anyone can improve their speed significantly through training.
Last edited by KingJustin; 07-27-2008 at 05:21 PM.
What I'm trying to say is if you broke down track speed into 3 classes. Class A being the fastest, I doubt a person who starting speed is class C can make it to A with training. My feeling is they probably could make it to the top of class C or the bottom half of B. Hope I didn't confuse you.
My example is based on an adult male or female who has stopped growing. I say this because I myself was a late bloomer; meaning I seen great jumps in speed and strength bout time I was a SR in HS vs being a Soph because my body became more adult like. I have no scientific evidence to back up my claim so I could be wrong.
Last edited by blackboard; 07-27-2008 at 06:42 PM.
I think that with typical/bad training, you can probably get a general idea of where you're going to be (this is much, much better than no training at all) regarding speed. But, I also think you can still noticeably improve on this ... ie .5-1.5 seconds, depending on the individual, in the 100m dash.