My attempt at 5000 calories - input wanted!

[yasher]

I tried to do as much research as possible, and be as self-sufficient as possible in coming up with this; there's a lot to read out there, and it took me a few hours to come up with something solid enough to post. Hopefully, this passes the test and doesn't end up like most "HELP ME EAT" threads in this forum that have two sentences thrown into a post and two replies at most.

I'm a 25 year-old guy, 6'5, 185 and I'm just beginning Starting Strength.

Everything I read says "Eat anything you can get your hands on!" I tell ya, that's hard to understand at first, and I was having one hell of a time figuring out what 5000 calories looked like in a day. After much dicking with fitday, I came up with something, and I'd really like some input.

How well do shakes keep? Can I make it in the morning, drink half of it around 9am at work, and the other half around 3pm? I ordered some Maximus from ALN and the shake I want to make is gonna look something like this:

- 1 serving Maximus
- 32oz whole milk
- 2 TBSP Natural Peanut Butter
- 1 large banana

1511 Calories, 56.3g fat, 155.4g carb, 102.9g protein - meant to be halved & consumed in two meals

I'M LEAVING THIS DIET UP FOR PURPOSES OF SEEING WHERE I STARTED MY THOUGHT PROCESSES AND COMPARING TO WHERE I ULTIMATELY END UP. PLEASE SEE THIS POST FURTHER DOWN THE PAGE FOR MY CURRENT DIET IDEAS

This is what I'm looking at, theoretically, for daily intake:

Breakfast
- 4 scrambled eggs
- 2 slices of toast
- 16 oz milk
- A piece of fruit (banana or apple, probably)

- 801 calories, 38g fat, 69.3g carb, 47.5g protein

Snack
- Half of my shake

- 755 calories, 28.2g fat, 77.7g carb, 52g protein

Lunch
- 1.5 medium chicken breasts, sauteed in olive oil or grilled
- Steamed broccoli
- 1 oz cashews
- 24 oz whole milk

- 1208 calories, 60.3g fat, 47.5g carbs, 117.7g protein

Pre-workout Shake
- Half of my shake

- 755 calories, 28.2g fat, 77.7g carb, 52g protein

Post-workout
- Opticen shake - this is just shaken up with water, or should I be using milk? The plan is to drink it at the gym, so water's easier, I guess.

- 372 calories, 8g fat, 35g carbs, 40g protein

Dinner
- 4 oz pasta w/pesto sauce
- 1 chicken breast
- Veggie like carrots or broccoli
- 1 oz cashews

- 1131 calories, 45.4g fat, 95.2g carbs, 83g protein

Totals: 5022 calories, 208.1g fat, 402.4g carbs, 392.2g protein

After plugging it all into Fitday again, I get a breakdown of: 32% Protein, 36% Fat, 32% Carbs. I don't think this is optimal, but does it matter at this point?

I'm going to take a multivitamin & fish oil capsules - I recall reading that 10 caps/day isn't overkill, and adds 100 calories/day to my diet. Is that kosher?

I put myself in your hands, WBBers. Any input at all would be greatly appreciated. If I'm totally off with some portion sizes - for example, I'm not sure if 4oz of dried pasta is a huge serving or not - I'd like some input. Input on times of day would be great too - are carbs at night bad?

Thanks!

[Unreal]

Looks like a solid diet overall. Shake should keep fine in the fridge. You may have to blend it again to mix it up or stir it up. Carbs at night aren't bad. 10g a day of fish oil is fine. What you really want is 3g of dha/epa or whatever the omega 3 oil in it is. So depending on brand that could be 4 caps or 15 caps, just aim for 3g of active stuff in it.

Overall one of the best new post I've seen. Good job on the research. Where did you get the 5000 calorie mark? Are you trying to add weight quickly? Is your maintence ~4500 or are you ok with some fat gain?

[yasher]

I pulled the 5000 number out of my ass, to be honest; I figured the general advice of "eat anything in sight," meant that I couldn't go too wrong with it, and the experience I got figuring out what goes into a diet like that was invaluable. It's probably gonna be more like 4600 on non-gym days, and 5000 on gym days, because I assume I'm not gonna be drinking a post-workout shake when I'm not doing a workout.

I'm not sure what my maintenance is, frankly. I guessed at what I'd eaten over the past week, figured I was probably at about 3000 calories per day, but that's a crapshoot as to whether or not it's correct. I'm tracking what I eat this week, so I'll have a better idea of what my maintenance is come this time next week.

I'm ok with some fat gain if it leads to larger strength gains early on, but if it doesn't provide any noticeable benefit, I'll definitely tone down the calories. I'm an ecto, and I'd always been able to eat whatever I want to without any repercussions; in the last year or so, I've put on a small gut, but everything else has stayed the same.

I suppose I'd love to add weight quickly, but I'm looking to get stronger first, bigger second and look good naked third; it seems like that's the appropriate order for my priorities, and I'm willing to make tweaks or changes to support that goal.

Thanks for the response!

[vdizenzo]

Get your carbs up a little more. Throw a complex carb in with lunch. 5000 calories is tough, I know, it's what I eat everyday. Most people who say they eat 5k cals are full of crap. They do it 1-2 days a week. My advice to you is be consistent. It's better to be consistent with 4k cals a day than 5k one, 3k, another, etc.

[yasher]

Get your carbs up a little more. Throw a complex carb in with lunch.

Can you make a suggestion? Just some whole wheat bread, some pasta, or is there something more interesting that I can draw on here?

5000 calories is tough, I know, it's what I eat everyday. Most people who say they eat 5k cals are full of crap. They do it 1-2 days a week. My advice to you is be consistent. It's better to be consistent with 4k cals a day than 5k one, 3k, another, etc.

At first, I think I'm going to eat the same thing everyday for a week or two. I expect I'll be bored off my ass, and it'll be time to find ways to mix it up after awhile, but that's how I plan to stay consistent.

If I'm drinking a post-workout meal like Opticen, should I substitute something for that meal on days I don't work out? If I do substitute something, should I be shooting for similar macros, or just a similar calorie count? If I don't, I'll be at ~4600 calories on non-gym days, and ~5k on gym days. Is that too large of a variance?

Thanks!

[Unreal]

Oats, potatoes, sweet taters, pasta, rice, quiona, cucucuss

Well stict to a set ammount of calories and see if your putting on too much fat. If your maintence is really ~3000 then 5k will be way too much and you'll get fat quick. That would be 2000 a day over maintence which would mean 14k a week over which means ~4lbs a week of gain. Considering you can add maybe .5lbs of lean mass a week you would probably be packing on 2-3lbs of fat a week.

[yasher]

Oats, potatoes, sweet taters, pasta, rice, quiona, cucucuss

Awesome, thanks.

Well stict to a set ammount of calories and see if your putting on too much fat. If your maintence is really ~3000 then 5k will be way too much and you'll get fat quick. That would be 2000 a day over maintence which would mean 14k a week over which means ~4lbs a week of gain. Considering you can add maybe .5lbs of lean mass a week you would probably be packing on 2-3lbs of fat a week.

My powders/supplements won't be here until sometime later this week, and I've got a decision to make about which gym I'm going to join, so I'll make a point to vigilantly track my food intake over the next week and hopefully have a decent idea of what my maintenance actually is. I definitely don't need to be packing on 2-3lbs of fat a week! My wife would kill me!

If I need to cut my diet down to, say, 4000 calories, can I stay within this framework and just trim serving sizes? 2-3 eggs rather than 4, less pasta, etc?

I really appreciate all of the feedback.

[Joe Black]

Hey Yasher,

Wow, you're not messing about huh?

Ok, first off I love that you have clear goals. Get stronger, get bigger, look good naked - in that order. You know what you want which means you can devise a plan specifically around that and it also makes it easier for us to give feedback.

Honestly, I think your diet looks absolutely great. You've managed to keep it relatively clean with some very good sources of protein, carbs and fat.

I only really have two main suggestions.

1. Do you really need to eat 5,000 calories a day? It's a LOT to eat and you may find yourself really putting on a fair amount of bodyfat along the way. But, having said that, you are a tall lad and are underweight for that your height so I am guessing that you are naturally a thin guy with a fast metabolism so perhaps an aggressive plan like this is what is required to get you packing on the weight... It's really down to you.. Normally I would recommend a more conservative approach to daily calories, but I think your situation is fairly unique and you really gotta go for it to get that weight on. So, I don't neccessarily think 5,000 is the wrong thing to do, but consider starting off with 4,000 or 4,500 and adjusting if you don't see the weight/strength gains you want? I wouldn't worry about this for too long though, just pick a number, get going and adjust along the way. Actually you can always start at 5,000 and come down if it feels too much anyway.

2. I would agree with Vincent that your carsb could be a little higher, but I'm not sure it matters too much at this point anyway. Just get those calories into your body for now

So both my points are really more observations, a great mass building diet if you ask me.

In fact we have a new newsletter going out on Thursday and this would be great content for it. Mind if we use it?

[Joe Black]

Oh and I forgot.. two more things.

1. Love the Maximus and Opticen - thanks for the order!

2. I am JEALOUS of that big breakfast. Beats my 2 egg, 1 egg white scrambled egg with a small glass of fruit juice lol

[yasher]

Ok, first off I love that you have clear goals. Get stronger, get bigger, look good naked - in that order. You know what you want which means you can devise a plan specifically around that and it also makes it easier for us to give feedback.

I tried to take cues from the other posts I'd read and from the stickies; glad to see that it worked!

1. Do you really need to eat 5,000 calories a day? ... Actually you can always start at 5,000 and come down if it feels too much anyway.

I ate ~3800 calories today without thinking too much about it - as much as you can "not think about it" while you're actively tracking what you eat I'm gong to continue to track what I eat for the next week, and depending on my actual maintenance, I'll probably start eating at ~4500 calories, not 5k.

2. I would agree with Vincent that your carsb could be a little higher, but I'm not sure it matters too much at this point anyway. Just get those calories into your body for now

I'm gonna do a bit of tinkering and see what 4500 calories looks like with a complex carb added to lunch - I'll post a follow-up once I've decided what that looks like.

So both my points are really more observations, a great mass building diet if you ask me.

Awesome!

1. Love the Maximus and Opticen - thanks for the order!

I figured I might as well take advantage of the August sale, so I ordered a Max Mass Stack w/Results, a bunch of multivitamins and some fish oil The testimonials about the ALN products in the ALN forum made the decision of what supps to buy easy!

In fact we have a new newsletter going out on Thursday and this would be great content for it. Mind if we use it?

I'd be honored!

I really appreciate everyone's detailed replies.

[Virtron]

wow... nice number crunching man... what kind of chicken do you use?

[yasher]

wow... nice number crunching man... what kind of chicken do you use?

I use boneless, skinless chicken breasts I buy at Costco. I think I pay $2/lb or something ridiculously low, and they're of a good quality. I'm a huge fan of Costco.

Thanks for asking this question - it made me go look at my chicken! More importantly, it made me realize that my chicken and Fitday's default "chicken breast" are so far afield that I've got to rethink my macro breakdown.

That makes me wonder just how far I should be trusting Fitday's defaults for things like "medium sized chicken breast" and whatnot; I think I'm gonna create some custom foods of my own and mess around with it for a bit. I'll report back soon.

[given'er]

Your diet looks quite similar to what I'm doing right now. I'm shooting for around 4500/day. After cutting for 5 months and consuming around 2000-2500 cal I now feel like I am going to puke most of the day...lol. Good luck with it.

[yasher]

Alright, here's a quick and dirty attempt at reworking my daily intake with real nutritional info from my chicken. I also ended up going from whole milk to 2% milk because the macros were a bit fat-heavy with whole.

My shake, for reference:
- 1 serving Maximus
- 32oz 2% milk
- 1 large banana
- 2 tbsp natural peanut butter

Breakfast
- 4 eggs scrambled w/some butter
- 2 pieces whole wheat toast (I think this is going to be Ezekiel bread; sadly, I don't have any at the moment, and I can't find solid nutritional info for it online) w/butter
- Apple or banana (Oranges are gross, I never eat them)
- 16oz 2% milk

Breakfast: 908 calories, 47.3g fat, 74.2g carbs, 47.3g protein

Mid-morning Snack
- Half of my shake

Mid-morning Snack: 706.5 calories, 21.9g fat, 78.6g carbs, 51.8g protein

Lunch
- 10 oz chicken breast, grilled or sauteed w/olive oil
- 1 cup steamed broccoli
- 1 cup cooked brown rice
- 1 oz cashews
- 24oz 2% milk

Lunch: 1051 calories, 33.6g fat, 93.1g carbs, 96.5g protein

Pre-workout/Mid-afternoon Snack
- Half my shake

Pre-workout: 706.5 calories, 21.9g fat, 78.6g carbs, 51.8g protein

Post-workout
- Opticen w/water
- Trying to figure out something I can substitute here because I don't want to drink this on my no-gym days.

Post-workout: 372 calories, 8g fat, 35g carbs, 40g protein

Dinner
- 10 oz chicken breast, grilled or sauteed in olive oil
- 1 cup cooked pasta w/butter, oil or pesto (something fatty)
- Carrots/broccoli/asparagus (Asparagus is absolutely fantastic if you toss it with olive oil, salt & fresh cracked black pepper & broil it for 8-10 minutes. Even my wife will eat it that way!)
- 1 oz cashews

Dinner: 812 calories, 30g fat, 63.2g carbs, 72.9g protein

Misc
- 10 capsules of Fish Oil
- Can't forget the Multi-Vitamin!

Misc: 100 calories, 10g fat

Total: 4655 calories, 173.5g fat, 422.5g carbs, 361.5g protein

Macros: 33% fat, 36% carbs, 31% protein

Not perfect, but getting there. I think a big key to getting these numbers pretty spot-on is making sure to be honest about things like added fats; its easy to forget a tablespoon of olive oil and a tablespoon of butter, but in all truth, that's 200 calories and 20 grams of fat that you're forgetting.

[yasher]

I realize that Fitday is quite often used, but I'm not quite sure I like the clunky interface and the crapshoot at correct nutritional info. Is Fitday PC better, is Fitday Premium better, or is there another, better option out there?

[twm]

to use fitday well, you have to enter your foods as custom items and weigh out your stuff

[yasher]

to use fitday well, you have to enter your foods as custom items and weigh out your stuff

In creating my latest draft of this diet, I did that with my chicken.

I assume it can be trusted with things like raw or steamed veggies; is this a fair assumption?

Aside from that, I think I'll be doing exactly as you suggest. Thanks!

[twm]

honestly, i prefer to use my own foods since i buy the same stuff from the grocery store over and over.. once its in, you're done. i'd rather know that I have exactly what I'm weighing out rather than be off by 10-100 cals due to subtlety's of someone else's measurements.

[Joe Black]

Thanks for updating the diet more accurelty I will include the revised version in our newsletter!

[Unreal]

The exact numbers from fitday won't matter if your consistent. Don't use sizes, use weights or measures. Small could be 4oz or 6oz. Who knows.

Even if the calories aren't spot on, it doesn't matter. If you measure and estimate the foods the same way and think it is 4600 calories and it is only really 4400 then it won't matter. You will track your weight and and if it isn't enough add more, if it is too much drop some cals. The actual number doesn't matter, just that you track it the same way and measure consistently and stick to it.

[yasher]

The exact numbers from fitday won't matter if your consistent. Don't use sizes, use weights or measures. Small could be 4oz or 6oz. Who knows.

Even if the calories aren't spot on, it doesn't matter. If you measure and estimate the foods the same way and think it is 4600 calories and it is only really 4400 then it won't matter. You will track your weight and and if it isn't enough add more, if it is too much drop some cals. The actual number doesn't matter, just that you track it the same way and measure consistently and stick to it.

I think this is a very important point and while it seems obvious now, it's something that didn't occur to me at first. Similarly, even if my scale is off, and I'm eating "10 oz" of chicken a day and its only 8 oz, its almost irrelevant, as long as I track my weight and adjust my diet accordingly.

This thread has been very eye-opening, thanks all.