To curl or not to curl...

[Off Road]

Why do you do curls? Should they be included?

Reason to include them:
I know that new lifters are going to throw them into their routines no matter what anybody says. I try to include them in routines in such a way that is not going to derail the whole routine. Something like a couple of sets of barbell curls will keep most new lifters happy and they will be less likely to switch routines for the latest blitz-and-bomb bicep program.

Also, I think curls are a very functional lift...really, I do

Reason to not include them:
When recovery is at a premium, I think pull-ups and rows give you more bang for the buck. If you are one of those guys that does not recover well from too much stimulus, then adding little isolation exercises can derail your efforts.

Can you think of any more...

[dynamo]

I threw them in because it helped my arms stay balanced for benching. My triceps are redonk so I could push a lot of weight when I started but I had problems controlling it on the way down and my biceps spasmed the whole time. Then I kept them in bc my arms kept getting bigger. Whether it was from DLs or rows more than curls, probably, but I didn't want to change something that was working.


Though I have to say now that I do dips and pullups and rows in place of curls lol I would say they are not necessary and I wouldn't put them back in my routine. I avoided pullups for a long time though bc I'm 270ish lbs but I decided they're too good not to do even if I can only do 3 at a time after I deadlift.

[JRider23]

reasons to include them
- for me, my left bicep is much bigger than my left and that even makes a difference during rows, so i do Alt DB Curls once a week to try to even them out
- if your biceps don't respond as well to chins and rows
- ego (for some people)
- people want to have big biceps-- when you flex your arms, everyone looks at your biceps


reasons to not include them
- i feel like a loser working biceps
- in the big picture, it's nothing important
- already hit bi's hard doing other exercises
- bi's make up 30% of the arm, and focusing more on tri's will help your arms more than focusing more on bi's.

[J.C.]

Big arms look good but as Stuart McRobert says: "The easiest route to big arms isn't a straight line to the curl bar." The problem is that biceps command an inordinate amount of attention in both lifters and the general populace.

I'm one of those guys that doesn't respond to volume and isolation so I don't do them. I haven't done a curl for years. Maybe once I've progressed a bit further I'll throw them in but right now I just don't give a ****.

[chris mason]

Why not do them? There is nothing wrong with specific arm work. No need for a lot of volume, but one should definitely train their biceps just as they should train all of their larger muscles.

[J.C.]

^^ I don't know if that was addressed at me or not but I do chins in place of curls. Which is a similar movement and I think what Off Road was getting at.

Another potential reason for doing curls is that some people just like doing them and find them a fun exercise. I think sometimes weight-lifting can get a bit prescriptive, do this, don't do that... but if you're doing everything right then there's no reason not to fit in the exercises you like.

[chris mason]

^^ I don't know if that was addressed at me or not but I do chins in place of curls. Which is a similar movement and I think what Off Road was getting at.

Another potential reason for doing curls is that some people just like doing them and find them a fun exercise. I think sometimes weight-lifting can get a bit prescriptive, do this, don't do that... but if you're doing everything right then there's no reason not to fit in the exercises you like.

If you want the best arms possible and the most strength possible in any type of a pull (chin, row etc.), then train your biceps. That would be my nutshell version.

[platypus]

If you want the best arms possible and the most strength possible in any type of a pull (chin, row etc.), then train your biceps. That would be my nutshell version.

People seem to forget this. However, it is true that to build an overall stronger body, it is better to focus on compound movements, in which case rows and pullups would be the best work for biceps.

[chris mason]

You should always focus on building the largest muscles of the body, but you should not forget things like biceps and triceps. For most (if not all) compound lifts the arms are most certainly a limiting factor.

[Off Road]

Related story...
I can see what Chris is talking about. I've found [in the past] that my chin-ups have increased by focussing on rows and curls and not even doing a single chin-up.

[chris mason]

At the risk of sounding immodest, trust me. I know more than 99% of the most popular gurus out there. I have pretty good size and strength to back up my thoughts as well as access to the best minds in the business.

People on websites like these have taken a good message and perverted it. The good message is to focus on the compound movements and not single joint movements like curls. That will make you grow. Endless sets of curls, kick-backs, and pec flyes will not make you big and strong. A limited number of sets with benches, deads, and squats WILL make you big and strong all over.

Now, does this mean accessory isolation work is bad? NO!!!! It means it should be added sparingly as support work for the compound movements. THAT is what will make you biggest and strongest.

[ThomasG]

At the risk of sounding immodest, trust me. I know more than 99% of the most popular gurus out there. I have pretty good size and strength to back up my thoughts as well as access to the best minds in the business.

People on websites like these have taken a good message and perverted it. The good message is to focus on the compound movements and not single joint movements like curls. That will make you grow. Endless sets of curls, kick-backs, and pec flyes will not make you big and strong. A limited number of sets with benches, deads, and squats WILL make you big and strong all over.

Now, does this mean accessory isolation work is bad? NO!!!! It means it should be added sparingly as support work for the compound movements. THAT is what will make you biggest and strongest.

This.

I am so sick of the attitude that all you need to do is Bench Squat row and dead.

[Clover]

I may have to add these in once or twice a week. I'm really struggling with my chin ups right now, maybe these will help.

[cphafner]

I'm with Chris on this. I'm not a big believer in arm work, but don't totally neglect them. I'll toss in a couple bicep and triceps exercises.

[Off Road]

Now, does this mean accessory isolation work is bad? NO!!!! It means it should be added sparingly as support work for the compound movements. THAT is what will make you biggest and strongest.

I think that's where the problems come from. If you tell some of the newer lifters that it's okay to throw in some curls, many will take that to mean it's okay to do endless sets of 10 different kinds of curls.

So, I think a lot of guys tell new lifters to replace the curls in favor of compound movements knowing that they'll still sneak in some curls here and there, which would be perfect

[Geraldw]

I just love curls i like the way it feels when i do them i like the way I look when I do them i like the way my arms look for a few minutes after I do them . That and I work at home so rows and curls is all I do for arms. Until I bet a chin up bar . Being as lazy as i am it may be awhile before I get around to it

[james_w8lifter]

I just love curls i like the way it feels when i do them i like the way I look when I do them i like the way my arms look for a few minutes after I do them . That and I work at home so rows and curls is all I do for arms. Until I bet a chin up bar . Being as lazy as i am it may be awhile before I get around to it

No tricep exercises? (Dips, Skulls, etc.) The Tri's make up more of the arm than the Bi's so maybe you need to change it up.

[J.C.]

Curls as a "functional exercise", bent arms and strongman training.

Maybe Tom can chip in here but I've wondered what the official line on biceps work is for strongman training. I've wanted to start a thread on this for a while.

The arms, and especially the biceps are crucial for picking up awkward objects and carrying them. With deadlifts you only ever lift with straight arms, but in real life you usually have to stretch your arms around the object, hitch it up or carry with bent arms. When I was working as a removals/manual labour guy over the summer this was constantly apparent with every desk I carried! I think my arm strength remained OK while everything else plummeted.

I've heard some strongman competitors do no bicep work in the gym because they don't want to risk bicep tear, and others do lots of bicep work because they also don't want a bicep tear... Thoughts.

[chris mason]

Curls as a "functional exercise", bent arms and strongman training.

Maybe Tom can chip in here but I've wondered what the official line on biceps work is for strongman training. I've wanted to start a thread on this for a while.

The arms, and especially the biceps are crucial for picking up awkward objects and carrying them. With deadlifts you only ever lift with straight arms, but in real life you usually have to stretch your arms around the object, hitch it up or carry with bent arms. When I was working as a removals/manual labour guy over the summer this was constantly apparent with every desk I carried! I think my arm strength remained OK while everything else plummeted.

I've heard some strongman competitors do no bicep work in the gym because they don't want to risk bicep tear, and others do lots of bicep work because they also don't want a bicep tear... Thoughts.

Strongman trainees have the logs they press which require a curling motion to rack them at the shoulders. That is just one biceps exercise they perform.

[skinny99]

I think that's where the problems come from. If you tell some of the newer lifters that it's okay to throw in some curls, many will take that to mean it's okay to do endless sets of 10 different kinds of curls.

So, I think a lot of guys tell new lifters to replace the curls in favor of compound movements knowing that they'll still sneak in some curls here and there, which would be perfect

I agree if there is no rhyme or reason to your workouts and you let curls dominate a day or two the ability to gain is diminished! In a proper workout there has to be a place to work your biceps correctly! I am on SS and think it is great however I don't think my biceps would keep up with my triceps if I never changed my routine. The idea of building a base of full body strength and them moving on to a mixed style workout makes all the sense in the world to me! In that scheme you would definitly have to include a few sets of quality curls on the correct day! There is no doubt that a general theme of no isolation movements drift in and out of this forum however with the amount of newbies (me included) posting it is easy to keep reading lift heavy compound only to try and get them on the proper path! We know they will get bigger if they do!

[That_Guy]

I do curls palms down once or twice a week to hit my forearms

[SEOINAGE]

I haven't done hardly any curls lately, but I do a decent amount of chin and pull ups and various rows, lately I have noticed biceps giving me problems during bench, might be my form or it might be my biceps just aren't getting hit hard enough. I will probably throw in a set of curls once a week for a while just to see if that makes my pain go away.

[Saverio]

BT (Ben Tatar, in an interview with Ed Coan) : YOU DON'T TRAIN MUSCLES LIKE BICEPS?

Ed Coan: nope, biceps are like ornaments on a xmas tree


Classic Coan

[David Trantham]

At the risk of sounding immodest, trust me. I know more than 99% of the most popular gurus out there. I have pretty good size and strength to back up my thoughts as well as access to the best minds in the business.

People on websites like these have taken a good message and perverted it. The good message is to focus on the compound movements and not single joint movements like curls. That will make you grow. Endless sets of curls, kick-backs, and pec flyes will not make you big and strong. A limited number of sets with benches, deads, and squats WILL make you big and strong all over.

Now, does this mean accessory isolation work is bad? NO!!!! It means it should be added sparingly as support work for the compound movements. THAT is what will make you biggest and strongest.

agree 110% , good answer!!

[Songsangnim]

I haven't done hardly any curls lately, but I do a decent amount of chin and pull ups and various rows, lately I have noticed biceps giving me problems during bench, might be my form or it might be my biceps just aren't getting hit hard enough. I will probably throw in a set of curls once a week for a while just to see if that makes my pain go away.

I don't understand how biceps are giving you problems when you bench.