Westside Training: Most important concept you have gotten from training?

[icedutah]

There's one very important thing I have taken from Westside Barbell training. In regards to Max Effort training. Never do the same max effort (90% plus) exercise in back to back weeks. No more than 3 - 5 sets as well to avoid over training.

Yet when I see peoples training programs and logs they constantly break this idea. I have first hand experience with this back in the day and doing back to back Max lifts. I could tell that I just stalled. Now I never break that "Westside Rule".

Just one real life example is Brian Schwab's logs over on EliteFTS. If you look at his ME bench days all he ever does is puts on his DD shirt and does board presses. Not just him but many lifters and Elite lifters do this. I just sometimes have to say why!?

[Travis Bell]

Interesting question!

I guess one of the more important concepts that I end up sharing a lot with people is the selection of max effort exercises. Most people see person X doing one ME lift and they figure they should just do it as well.

You need to be smart in picking specific exercises that you are poor at. Too often people just pick a lift that they enjoy doing or are good at already and then wonder why they never progress. The reason is, is that they are never training their weaknesses.

As far as Schwabby's log, I'll just say that what Brian does works exceptionally well for him. Bench is easily one of his best lifts. What you may be confusing is that Brian never really claims to train on a Westside routine. He just does what works for him, which happens to be shirted boards a lot. Don't be mistaken though, he's a crazy strong raw bencher.

The other thing you have to remember is that a lot of these guys spent years and years building up to where they are now. Before now they developed a good base by rotating specific exercises in the right pattern and have developed a specific routine that works well for them and them alone.

[Lones Green]

Yeah, this is a very cool thread.

I've learned a ton from Westside. When I read the title I immediately thought, "the conjugate method." Kind of goes along with what Travis said. Westside isn't exactly something you can put on paper, it looks different for everyone. The max effort movements and even assistance is geared toward weaknesses, so workouts vary a ton from person to person. It's quite hard to become stagnant on a program with so much change and evolution

Plus things like being able to apply the program to athletes, or anyone, is pretty cool.

[JK1]

Like Travis said, identification of weak points. You are only as strong as your weakest point in a given lift. If you bring up your weak areas, you will get stronger.

The other thing I've learned is the importance of appropriate deloads. You can beat the **** out of yourself training with a Westside format. Back off a little bit from time to time and you will come back stronger.

[NickAus]

GOOD THREAD, for me I think the conjugate method is one of the main things that has helped.

I also think training with bands made me stronger at a faster rate than if I had only used straight weight.

The fact that Louie has people work really hard on the lats, upperback, triceps and hamstrings is also a big part of why it works so well IMO.

[MarcusWild]

I can only pick one?

Doing a second barbell movement as my first accessory. I do this on ME lower, ME upper, and DE upper days. I try to get 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps. When I feel beat up, I just do 3x5 with the same weight. When I feel good, I try to push for a PR on the 3RM or 5RM. On DE lower, I alternate between this and speed pulls.

[sayagain]

I can only pick one?

Doing a second barbell movement as my first accessory. I do this on ME lower, ME upper, and DE upper days. I try to get 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps. When I feel beat up, I just do 3x5 with the same weight. When I feel good, I try to push for a PR on the 3RM or 5RM. On DE lower, I alternate between this and speed pulls.

That is a great point. Travis always talks about making sure that you get your volume in when doing a Westside style program. This is a great way to do that.

[slashkills]

the biggest thing for me is lots of volume at higher percentages on ME lifts

[robchris]

Conjugate is by far the best method... Bands/chains ME,DE, really work well for me! WSB rules!

- On a side note, I think Brain does a lot of bd. presses to limit his range of motion. He had a partial pec tear early in his lifting career and has since modified his full-range work.(I can relate )

[Travis Bell]

- On a side note, I think Brain does a lot of bd. presses to limit his range of motion. He had a partial pec tear early in his lifting career and has since modified his full-range work.(I can relate )

My brain does board presses too!

Me thinks smarter makes it does me

Brain board pressed do leave nasty goose bumps though and can cause dain bramage

[SEOINAGE]

So lets say quads are my weakness in the squat, whats your top pick for assistance work I should be doing?

To the original question, I'm loving the variation I get with westside, what I do also isn't nearly the same as anyone else. I'm having a lot of fun with it though. But I also noticed I had to change ME exercises every week cause If I repeated one it would always be less the next time.

[Lones Green]

My brain does board presses too!

Me thinks smarter makes it does me

Brain board pressed do leave nasty goose bumps though and can cause dain bramage

LOL!!!

[Lones Green]

So lets say quads are my weakness in the squat, whats your top pick for assistance work I should be doing?

To the original question, I'm loving the variation I get with westside, what I do also isn't nearly the same as anyone else. I'm having a lot of fun with it though. But I also noticed I had to change ME exercises every week cause If I repeated one it would always be less the next time.

Bulgarian split squats would be good, maybe some high rep leg press. Hack squats and leg extensions both can be tough on the knees.

You want to keep the majority of the work on your posterior chain though, when you sit back and practice proper form, your posterior chain should be the key player to your squat

[robchris]

My brain does board presses too!

Me thinks smarter makes it does me

Brain board pressed do leave nasty goose bumps though and can cause dain bramage

Who the he** is Tarvis Belk?

Sorry for the typo's bro... And all this time I thought Vinnie was the teacher on this board! LMAO!!

[chris mason]

I'd sat conjugate variety and assistance work.

[SEOINAGE]

Bulgarian split squats would be good, maybe some high rep leg press. Hack squats and leg extensions both can be tough on the knees.

You want to keep the majority of the work on your posterior chain though, when you sit back and practice proper form, your posterior chain should be the key player to your squat

I'll try some of those, did some front squats after my speed banded box squat and a little deadlift. Reason I ask is I don't see a ton of emphasis on the quads which I understand, but I feel like my quads don't get any work since I have been powerlifting and squatting wide and sitting back properly, and i thought a little quad work would be good to keep my knees healthy by having htem strong enough when I do daily activities. maybe I'm being stupid.

[douglasoh5]

well I lift with alot of EX siders and Id say Iv learned that you need to train heavy but know when to back off...and dont kill yourself of assistance **** all the time

[poopoo333]

There's one very important thing I have taken from Westside Barbell training. In regards to Max Effort training. Never do the same max effort (90% plus) exercise in back to back weeks. No more than 3 - 5 sets as well to avoid over training.

Yet when I see peoples training programs and logs they constantly break this idea. I have first hand experience with this back in the day and doing back to back Max lifts. I could tell that I just stalled. Now I never break that "Westside Rule".

Just one real life example is Brian Schwab's logs over on EliteFTS. If you look at his ME bench days all he ever does is puts on his DD shirt and does board presses. Not just him but many lifters and Elite lifters do this. I just sometimes have to say why!?

The thing you mention about back to back ME movements.. didn't know that was a "Westside Rule". I have been doing 2 week cycles, and always on the 2nd week I hit bigger numbers then I do on the first week.

[C-Sobrino]

The thing you mention about back to back ME movements.. didn't know that was a "Westside Rule". I have been doing 2 week cycles, and always on the 2nd week I hit bigger numbers then I do on the first week.

I think it depends on the person and the emphasis. I know there's a conversation where Buddy Morris tells Dave Tate and Jim Wendler he has athletes use an exercise 3 weeks before changing. If you're getting progress, keep doing what you're doing... As far as I understand, if you picked the right ME exercise, then progress will mean progress on your competition lift.

[AdamBAG]

I agree with what the other guys have said already, so I will just add a few things.

You have to tweak the system to fit your needs. For example, I've found that a good ME bench rotation for me is week one full range raw, week two partial range raw, week three shirt work. That way I keep my raw strength up and get shirt technique done w/o burning myself out in the gear.

Another thing I learned is to focus on lifting with maximum effort and not focusing on breaking a PR. Breaking a PR should be a bonus. You need to work up to a heavy/tough triple before you go to singles. That way you get more volume in. A lot of guys when they first start with conjugate training focus too much on breaking a max single and basically slack off on the sets leading up to the attempt of a PR. I got a lot stronger when I focused on going to a balls out triple and then if I still felt good going to some singles. If I feel like crap after that triple then I've strained enough that day.

[Darracq]

For the guys that have done WS for at least a couple years and drug free, how often do you hit prs on your raw bench lifts. Sometimes i wonder if doing low reps for years if i need to do something else I know it mush work for a lot of guys or they woudnt do it.

[AdamBAG]

For the guys that have done WS for at least a couple years and drug free, how often do you hit prs on your raw bench lifts. Sometimes i wonder if doing low reps for years if i need to do something else I know it mush work for a lot of guys or they woudnt do it.

Sometimes I hit a PR and sometimes I don't. I don't usually do the same raw lifts in a rotation of 3 or 4 exercises like some people do. I use more variety, so I might not do the same exercise for 2 or 3 months. For example, I may have floor press in the rotation, but I'll vary it with bands/chains/straight weight etc.

I personally don't believe that using drugs or not matters. You just need to control your volume and deload properly. I do not use and have trained WSB methods for the last two years with no problems.

[Darracq]

Sometimes I hit a PR and sometimes I don't. I don't usually do the same raw lifts in a rotation of 3 or 4 exercises like some people do. I use more variety, so I might not do the same exercise for 2 or 3 months. For example, I may have floor press in the rotation, but I'll vary it with bands/chains/straight weight etc.

I personally don't believe that using drugs or not matters. You just need to control your volume and deload properly. I do not use and have trained WSB methods for the last two years with no problems.

I dont compete i just want to get as strong as i can raw, so that might make a difference not sure. I seem to do better if i hit prs i know things are working i think i would go nuts not doing the same lifts for months lol. MY gains are at a snails pace so i dont expect to hit a lot of prs though.
Do you think a 3 lift rotation is to small and then a deload week.

[Ermantroudt]

Most important thing I took away from Elite and WSB-put 100% into what you are doing; train hard, do all the work, not just what you like, be mentally strong-it will carry you to new heights.

[poopoo333]

While on the subject, for the raw lifter is it recommended to do a full range bench press as a ME movement at anytime?