The order of exercises

[Bosch232]

Here is the order that I normally do for upper body:

Flat Bench
Pull Ups
Rows
Overhead Press
Dips

I have no particular reason for that order, other than that's how they appear in HCT-12.
Last night I mixed up the order and did this:

Flat Bench
Dips
Overhead Press
Rows
Pull Ups

It seemed MUCH harder to do the second routine, and I had to lower weight a little. How much of an influence is the actual order of exercises? If there is, I would appreciate input into what order would yield the best results (hypertrophy).

[Off Road]

For use of the heaviest weights, I like to rotate a push and a pull, starting with the heaviest first. So something like;

Flat Bench
Rows
Dips
Pull ups
Overhead Press

This gives the muscles involved a time to rest before they are asked to preform a movement again.

[tom183]

^--That's what I'd do aswell.

[pottsy09]

Here is the order that I normally do for upper body:

Flat Bench
Pull Ups
Rows
Overhead Press
Dips

I have no particular reason for that order, other than that's how they appear in HCT-12.
Last night I mixed up the order and did this:

Flat Bench
Dips
Overhead Press
Rows
Pull Ups

It seemed MUCH harder to do the second routine, and I had to lower weight a little. How much of an influence is the actual order of exercises? If there is, I would appreciate input into what order would yield the best results (hypertrophy).

i always like to do ensure i do my compound movements first and then move onto my isolation exercises.

i do not work on the push and pull method, however this would work for some people.

[Behemoth]

Imo always compounds first. Evaluate weakest bodypart and do that movement(s) first. From there either keep working that muscle or simply work down the list off the biggest compounds first.

[mike mcgee]

I agree with compound movements first. You want to hit the big stuff when you are at your strongest. You can finish with the BW stuff like dips and pull ups after doing your barbell work.

[Off Road]

I disagree...respectfully of course. Dips are a major compound movement and much heavier than most people's shoulder press. Therefore, I think they should come before the press. Just my opinion though and it's not a make or break kind of deal.

[Dgro]

Dips and Pullups ARE compounds, and for most of the people here they're not "BW stuff" either

[Raleighwood]

IMO, the overhead press is a lot harder and requires more strength than the bench press. I like to rotate overhead press and bench.

In my program I bench twice, OHPress once a week.

[Bosch232]

I'm after hypertrophy more than gains in numbers, if that influences it at all.
I suspect that Off Road's comment of "It isn't a make-or-break deal" is probably what I should focus on, as I consider myself a low-intermediate level lifter.

[Raleighwood]

I'm after hypertrophy more than gains in numbers, if that influences it at all.
I suspect that Off Road's comment of "It isn't a make-or-break deal" is probably what I should focus on, as I consider myself a low-intermediate level lifter.

What is a low-intermediate lifter?

[Bosch232]

Meaning I only started really understanding the relationship between diet, weightlifting, a good routine, calories in vs. calories spent, etc., less than a year ago. And I don't know that I'm totally there yet. I don't think I've put in the time or the gains to call myself an intermediate lifter, although obviously it's a rather arbitrary statement. It's not like a Brown Belt vs a Black Belt.

[f=ma]

Meaning I only started really understanding the relationship between diet, weightlifting, a good routine, calories in vs. calories spent, etc., less than a year ago. And I don't know that I'm totally there yet. I don't think I've put in the time or the gains to call myself an intermediate lifter, although obviously it's a rather arbitrary statement. It's not like a Brown Belt vs a Black Belt.

i would agree based on your statement. typically, by definition, an intermediate lifter is one who has exhausted linear gains and is forced to use periodization

[Raleighwood]

i would agree based on your statement. typically, by definition, an intermediate lifter is one who has exhausted linear gains and is forced to use periodization

^ this.

I like Rippetoe's definition of an intermediate being someone who must program their training in way that makes weekly increases in intensity, rather than between workouts.

Beginner linearly progresses work out to work out.

Intermediate linearly progresses week to week, or micro-cycle to micro-cycle.

It may seem like this is a little ticky tacky, but it really helps to establish a definition that is comparable between trainees.

[MyWeightLifting]

^ this.

I like Rippetoe's definition of an intermediate being someone who must program their training in way that makes weekly increases in intensity, rather than between workouts.

Beginner linearly progresses work out to work out.

Intermediate linearly progresses week to week, or micro-cycle to micro-cycle.

It may seem like this is a little ticky tacky, but it really helps to establish a definition that is comparable between trainees.

I think that this is a pretty good way to differentiate levels of experience - It's basically like going from, say, exhausting your beginner gains on a program like Starting Strength and then transitioning to say, Madcow's Intermediate 5x5 workout.

I think you have to be "ticky tacky" (lol) when defining cut-offs for different levels of experience since it's a concept that varies so much between individuals. It would be nice if you could accurately define experience in terms of time (i.e. "beginners are those who've trained less than a year" etc.), but that of course doesn't take personal factors.

You also have to assume that the trainee has been eating well, training correctly, getting enough rest, etc. Otherwise a trainee who has experienced a decrease in his rate of progress due to slacking on his diet might mistakenly believe he's now an intermediate, and then choose an inappropriate protocol.

[Bosch232]

I am amused and annoyed at myself because (at the age of 43), one of my tougher challenges in weight training is patience.
That's something a person should have worked out in life by now.

And that's probably what all of this nonsense is about for me, when you break it down to brass tacks.
I can see why wild claims in the supplement industry yield a lot of revenue.