New poster here with a novice question..

[rick2sliq]

Hi everyone so I posted in an old thread and am not sure if people would respond to it or not or maybe its closed I have no idea I'm really new. Anyway I'll just copy and paste the exact question I had in the other thread:

Hey all,

I read the article on bulking or cutting and have to say, it was very well written an very informative. I'm new to website and took a read through this thread, and everyone seems to want to help, which is great because I would love some. I'm a 17 year old male, 168 pounds, roughly 14.3-16% bodyfat (used AccuMeasure body fat caliper, but have inconsistent results can't seem to find my superilliac). Anyways, I've been doing Stronglifts 5x5 (http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5...ining-program/) for 10 weeks now, this is my 11th. My goal, weight-wise, is 185. My goal, bf-wise, is 9% bf (10 is to show abs, I figure 1 percent lower couldn't hurt me). A question I have is, Mehdi (Stronglifts 5x5 writer) suggests to eat a lot and keep eating to gain strenght, which will gain muscle. If i follow this articles recommendation, 185x16 = 2960 calories. I can understand the caloric increase, because I weigh 168 and therefore require less calories to maintain, and have a VERY vague understanding of the fat loss once I reach my goal of 185 (someone explain further on the fat loss please!). However, would it still be possible to progressively overload my muscles each workout, as Mehdi suggests? My current workout stats are (these are PR's for me so I'm STOKED!): Squat - 195, Bench - 130, Deadlift - 230(grip failing, help?), Overhead Press - 90, Barbell Row - 115.

Quick Overview: I weigh 168 at 14.3-16% bf, want to weigh 185 at 8-10% bf.

Thanks a bunch in advance!

[D-RAS03]

Eat what a person weighing what you wanna weigh. Just watch the scale and yourself in the mirror. You will have to adjust your intake some. As for the 5x5 have you looked at the HCT-12 program? I used to do 5x5 but switched to HCT-12 and noticed a huge improvement overall. Hope that answered your question.

[chevelle2291]

185 at 9%, while certainly doable, is a 3-5 year journey if you aren't genetically blessed.I'm assuming a height at 5'10-6' or so.

That article is pretty solid. But I can dumb it down more for you. Eat more than you are now, getting in at least 1g/lb of bw in protein a day, lots of carbs, and a decent amount of fat (mostly from good sources like olive oil, etc.). If you are getting to fat too quickly (and be honest with yourself, you're going to see some fat gain inevitably) reduce calories. If you aren't gaining fast enough (at this point I'd shoot for .5-1lb a week), add calories.

When you have gained a good amount of strength and size, but are feeling fat, it's then time to reduce calories and cut.

For both gaining and losing, a food scale is priceless.

[ZAR-FIT]

For both gaining and losing, a food scale is priceless.

YES!!!! SO TRUE

[rick2sliq]

Wow....3 to 5 years is a very long time. I realize that bulking and cutting both take a long time, but I thought I could get to 185 in under a year or something close. The only problem with 3 to 5 years is that I want to be able to take my shirt off and have not a model type body but have abs to show for my hard work, you know? Going that long without the kind of body or at least somewhat relatively close to a nice body is very taxing mentally. I know fat gain is going to happen but damn hahaha. And yes I'm 5"10.5' . What is a more reasonable goal for me because I want to be able to see my abs for once?

[chevelle2291]

Wow....3 to 5 years is a very long time. I realize that bulking and cutting both take a long time, but I thought I could get to 185 in under a year or something close. The only problem with 3 to 5 years is that I want to be able to take my shirt off and have not a model type body but have abs to show for my hard work, you know? Going that long without the kind of body or at least somewhat relatively close to a nice body is very taxing mentally. I know fat gain is going to happen but damn hahaha. And yes I'm 5"10.5' . What is a more reasonable goal for me because I want to be able to see my abs for once?

Getting to 185 is easy. It's the 9% @ 185 thats tough. And I mean a true 9%, not a muscletech 9%. You could get to 185 this year, and probably cut down to 150-160 at 9-10 or so I'd imagine, maybe a bit heavier.


This shit doesnt happen fast if you're natty, and its even slower if you dont have good genetics. Not trying to discourage, but just a reality check. Abs are fun but if you dont have the size who really gives a shit? If you want to lean out and think you need to then cut first. But dont be surprised if you dont look as great as you thought you would. I know I didnt.

[rick2sliq]

Hi,

Thanks for your response . What do you mean by "huge improvement"? Also, what is the hct program? Can you provide a link or a description about the benefits over 5x5 training? Also, what are your stats like weight height etc.

Thanks!

[rick2sliq]

Eat what a person weighing what you wanna weigh. Just watch the scale and yourself in the mirror. You will have to adjust your intake some. As for the 5x5 have you looked at the HCT-12 program? I used to do 5x5 but switched to HCT-12 and noticed a huge improvement overall. Hope that answered your question.

Sorry my last post was meant for you

[D-RAS03]

Hi,

Thanks for your response . What do you mean by "huge improvement"? Also, what is the hct program? Can you provide a link or a description about the benefits over 5x5 training? Also, what are your stats like weight height etc.

Thanks!

My huge improvements were stength increased faster. Size came faster. The HCT program is at the top of the page. I don't know of any links that describes benifits for one or the other. I'm 5'9" 210lbs ~23% Bf

[Alex.V]

Abs are fun but if you dont have the size who really gives a shit?

What was that quote? Abs on a skinny guy are like big boobs on a fat chick....

[Spartian]

Wow....3 to 5 years is a very long time. I realize that bulking and cutting both take a long time, but I thought I could get to 185 in under a year or something close. The only problem with 3 to 5 years is that I want to be able to take my shirt off and have not a model type body but have abs to show for my hard work, you know? Going that long without the kind of body or at least somewhat relatively close to a nice body is very taxing mentally. I know fat gain is going to happen but damn hahaha. And yes I'm 5"10.5' . What is a more reasonable goal for me because I want to be able to see my abs for once?

Chev has given solid advice. It takes hard work, time, and consistency but I'm approaching 10% @185 5,9 after 18-20 months training if this helps. I'm sure a years good training followed by sensible programming will yield some good results. Although please don't underestimate the time it takes.

[Spartian]

What was that quote? Abs on a skinny guy are like big boobs on a fat chick....

I love that quote!

[rick2sliq]

Chev has given solid advice. It takes hard work, time, and consistency but I'm approaching 10% @185 5,9 after 18-20 months training if this helps. I'm sure a years good training followed by sensible programming will yield some good results. Although please don't underestimate the time it takes.

Thank you for sharing that. What weight and body composition did you start at before and also did you have a six pack prior to the start of the program and during your 18-20 month shift were you in better shape than before you started?(ie. fat before and during shift abs started to show or something along those lines?)

[Spartian]

Thank you for sharing that. What weight and body composition did you start at before and also did you have a six pack prior to the start of the program and during your 18-20 month shift were you in better shape than before you started?(ie. fat before and during shift abs started to show or something along those lines?)

Hell no! I was skinny fat at like 182. I dunno BF but i wasn't lean. I am better shape now ofc. I never really gave a crap about abs, only heaving heavier each week.

[chevelle2291]

Chev has given solid advice. It takes hard work, time, and consistency but I'm approaching 10% @185 5,9 after 18-20 months training if this helps. I'm sure a years good training followed by sensible programming will yield some good results. Although please don't underestimate the time it takes.

nice work.

[Spartian]

nice work.

Thanks dude, it was actually your advice with City's i followed
So thank you.

[rick2sliq]

Hell no! I was skinny fat at like 182. I dunno BF but i wasn't lean. I am better shape now ofc. I never really gave a crap about abs, only heaving heavier each week.

What workout program did you do/are you doing? Did you use HCT12 up top in the links there?

[Spartian]

What workout program did you do/are you doing? Did you use HCT12 up top in the links there?

I am HCT now. I've used 5x5 with added dips/pull-ups, BGB, and HCT. HCT and BGB can both be found here. I really like the autoreg and strength progression focus. For me strength in 5-8RM tends to equate to good size gains too.

[rick2sliq]

I am HCT now. I've used 5x5 with added dips/pull-ups, BGB, and HCT. HCT and BGB can both be found here. I really like the autoreg and strength progression focus. For me strength in 5-8RM tends to equate to good size gains too.

I've read through all the articles in the HCT-12 training program, and want to give this thing a serious shot along with the nutrition principles for maximum growth and development, but am confused with a couple things.

Firstly, I understand, but don't understand auto-regulation. Daniel has done a good job explaining everything in all the sections for HCT-12 but some of it is just over my head. I understand the principle of a ramping set, then using the same weight again, and then taking 30-60 seconds rest and bumping out 2 and then rest and 2 and then and then 2. What I don't get is, how much weight do I use? I've been doing Starting Strength and each workout I know exactly what weight to use and what to do if I don't make the weight that session. However, which HCT-12, I don't know what I'm doing, which confuses things, and I also don't know which exercises to do and what would positively or negatively impact my progress..

[D-RAS03]

What I don't get is, how much weight do I use? I've been doing Starting Strength and each workout I know exactly what weight to use and what to do if I don't make the weight that session. However, which HCT-12, I don't know what I'm doing, which confuses things, and I also don't know which exercises to do and what would positively or negatively impact my progress..

You just work up in increments till you can't do 7 reps and that your final weight for the day. Try to beat that weight every week.

ETA: I do about 5 sets till I get to my final set. That way Im nice and warm before I push myself.

[rick2sliq]

You just work up in increments till you can't do 7 reps and that your final weight for the day. Try to beat that weight every week.

ETA: I do about 5 sets till I get to my final set. That way Im nice and warm before I push myself.

So its pretty much like Starting Strength, except I don't know how much I will go up next workout, but let it depend on how I feel? So let's say I go and do HCT-12 tomorrow, squat 195, and then the next time I do squats, I'll try to get to 200, and if I do, I'll go to 205, if not, then I stick to 195?